Upgraded to MS2 Extra, got a bunch of noise

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Mar 01, 2011 9:30 PM

Since last fall, I've been slowly upgrading to MS2. I got the daughter board installed, the outputs for my fan control, boost control, idle valve, switchable maps and water injection re-appropriated and loaded 210d. I also did the little mod to the daughter board on pins 10 and 15.

Everything was rock solid before, and I have to admit that MS1 Extra ran so well for almost three years I'm a little rusty on MS stuff and still learning the ins and outs of MS2.

I first started the car on MS2 around Christmas, and noticed the ect, iat and tps readings were so noisy that the A.E. is kicking in. I had to jump the car at this time and noticed the lc1 was shutting down due to low voltage. The alternator was only reaching 12 volts. I conditioned the battery and got it back to 740cca out 800 at 12.6 ocv. I replaced the alt. and checked all the engine grounds. With the key on, engine off the signals are normal, i.e., no noise.

Here's my msq and datalog if anyone can help:

2011-03-01_19.20.05.msq

2011-03-01_19.24.23.msl

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » Mar 01, 2011 10:45 PM

What is the charging voltage? Why isn't it logging batter voltage? That may provide some clue. How is the battery to chassis ground and the condition of the battery cables in general?

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Mar 02, 2011 7:31 AM

mooseheadm5 wrote:What is the charging voltage? Why isn't it logging batter voltage? That may provide some clue. How is the battery to chassis ground and the condition of the battery cables in general?

I'm seeing a minimum battery voltage of 13.2 and a maximum of 14.1 in this datalog. You did open it in MLV, right? All of the cables were replaced when the battery was relocated to the trunk and this setup worked flawlessly with MS1.

I noticed there is a noise filtering page in TS. Does anyone have any of these filters turned on?

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Mar 02, 2011 10:36 AM

You should really update that code, there have been numerous issues that have been fixed. The newest codes that I have messed with are 3.0.3 They fix a lot of idle issues and other things which are outlines on their site. I haven't looked at your direct problem, but if your going to all this trouble I really suggest upgrading the code, they redid the some of the map things so you may have to do a tiny bit of retuning, but it's worth it.

Also all noise filters turned off.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Mar 02, 2011 1:12 PM

I'll update the code tonight. I've been planning this upgrade for a long time it seems.

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I just loaded the code and my ms1 msq file. Should I have used a known good ms2 msq?

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Mar 02, 2011 6:20 PM

It could've came up with errors, if you didn't read them thoroughly maybe you would've missed something. Your tune seems pretty good though, just by glancing over a majority of the stuff.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Mar 04, 2011 8:32 PM

I took your advice Scott and wow what a difference! I have to do some tuning, but the idle afr was 12.3. The car has never been this solid in regards to afr before.

It still has some noise though. It's not enough to really affect the operation, but still annoying. When I split the MS case open to look around, I noticed the wires that run up to the Glen's Garage idle and wasted spark board were a little "pinched." I'll have to post a pic, it's pretty crowded in there! I wonder if that has something to do with the noise?

Post by **Nebraska_e28** » Mar 04, 2011 10:49 PM

Hmm... tuned in

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Mar 04, 2011 11:27 PM

Ya I figured you would have to do a little bit of fine tuning, it really is for the better though. I'm not sure where you were at before but it should be happy around 13.2-13.5 AFR at a warm idle, I even run the same advance as you do. What noise are you talking about? Is it certain sensors, or just like rpm noise? I'm not totally sure I understand the issue to be honest.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Mar 05, 2011 7:35 AM

It used to idle around 13, so the new firmware may just need fine tuned. I completely expect that upgrading from MS1.

Here's a datalog with the new 310 code.

2011-03-04_18.31.51.msl

The afr was not reading right in TS. I thought the setting was in Project Properties but looks to be under Calibrate Afr Table. I haven't tried to change the setting while connected so I need to correct that.

When you look at the datalog, there is "noise" in the tps signal. It's still triggering the tpsDOT. I don't know if the coolant and map signals look good but they still show a little "back and forth" in them as well.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Mar 05, 2011 7:59 AM

Oh wow, so everything that is directly a input/output for megsquirt is reading very choppy, i'd suspect hardware issues mostly megasquirt grounding issues itself. Look at how the IAC is dead smooth, I believe its using a seperate ground from the rest.

Post by **Nebraska_e28** » Mar 06, 2011 12:50 AM

Were there any major settings you had to tweak after this upgrade to get your car running? I did the same tonight & dropped in v3.0.3 & now my the middle led on MS stays solid and car wont start.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Mar 06, 2011 8:20 AM

Nebraska_e28 wrote:Were there any major settings you had to tweak after this upgrade to get your car running? I did the same tonight & dropped in v3.0.3 & now my the middle led on MS stays solid and car wont start.

Is your fuel pump cycling, is it coughing or just free spinning?

Post by **Nebraska_e28** » Mar 06, 2011 8:49 AM

Scottinva wrote:
Nebraska_e28 wrote:Were there any major settings you had to tweak after this upgrade to get your car running? I did the same tonight & dropped in v3.0.3 & now my the middle led on MS stays solid and car wont start.
Is your fuel pump cycling, is it coughing or just free spinning?

Actually the FP did cycle a few times. Is this a clue?

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Mar 06, 2011 9:37 AM

Shows a majority of the things are working. It's hard to say when you can hear the car ya kno. I dont know what code/ version of megasquirt you came from or much about your car. Send me your msq I think you have an ignition problem if i'm thinking correctly. Let me know what type of ignition system you are using, and hten the msq and i'll double check your stuff.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Mar 20, 2011 7:24 PM

Alright, so the last time I ran the car, the MS case was split open. It seemed like it was running better but I finally got the car out of the garage and put some fuel in it. I'm still having issues with tpsdot/mapdot cutting in at idle. The ect and tps are still reading all over the place too. I have a data log with the engine at operating temp with the MS case closed and opened. You can tell a difference in the way it runs but it doesn't seem to show up on the datalogs. (at least to me, anyway) Maybe I'm being paranoid about the GG board being so close to the MS2 daughter board. The car ran fine on MS1, and other than rewiring some outputs on the board, the only difference is the daughter board.

I'm thinking about contacting Peter F. and just sending him the MS unit.

2011-03-20_16.05.23.msl

Post by **Nebraska_e28** » Mar 20, 2011 11:39 PM

Is there any unshielded wires in the engine bay that could be picking something up? Just a thought.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Mar 21, 2011 8:49 AM

Nebraska_e28 wrote:Is there any unshielded wires in the engine bay that could be picking something up? Just a thought.

That's the thing. It was fine with ms1. The switch to ms2 is when everything started screwing up. I'm going to rewire all the outputs and move the GG idle board outside the ms case. I can see wires are clearly being pinched now that the daughter board is stuffed in there.

Hmm, maybe I strip this one down for the 7 and build a new one..

altus22 · Post by **altus22** » Mar 21, 2011 12:49 PM

Did you put RC filters on your daughter board mods? You shouldn't have unconditioned signals going to the daughter board.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Mar 21, 2011 2:49 PM

altus22 wrote:Did you put RC filters on your daughter board mods? You shouldn't have unconditioned signals going to the daughter board.

All the conditioning circuits were built as per ms1 instructions in the proto area. Do they need to be different for ms2?

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

Upgraded to MS2 Extra, got a bunch of noise

Upgraded to MS2 Extra, got a bunch of noise