Interesting New M5 review from new owner

[BDK]

From the RF E60 board

M5 has been a mistake for me:
Does anyone else share my complaints? The car is fast and handles well, but the SMG is simply not cut out for daily driving. I've had it about 10 days and must say that it was a mistake.

I would rather be driving my old M3 or Mustang than this high tech wonder. It's a very cool road car, but for simple driving, parking, etc. this transmission is a dog.

The gas milege is another complaint. The mother gets 10 mpg. I've had to gas up 3 times this week. It wastes a lot of money and time.

My advice for anyone thinking about one of these is think long and hard - at least longer and harder than I did. It's not the money, it's the hassle of driving this thing - too much work. Let's face it, it' not like most of us are doing anything more than going from point A to point B around town, I wish this car was more user friendly and maintained the handling which is terrific, but in the end, not worth the effort.

I just spent about 30 mins at the BMW USA site building myself one of these.....

After Phil's review and really looking at the car, I find that I really love it.....

I guess you gotta pay to play...

I wonder if this is city MPG or HWY??

But then again if you can spend close to $90k on a car what does gas mileage have to do with anything......



[Edit by BNC on [TIME]1130855941[/TIME]]

[BDK]

Here some more color choices....

I like this car....








I think some buldging fenders would really help, kinda like the old 500E.....or was it 300E MB, anyway I think it could help this car...but either way pretty sweet.........

[cgraff]

10 mpg? And complaining about parking and "simple driving"? This guy must be using it in the city or in-town.

Every review out there from Clarkson to Road & Track says that this is NOT a city car. If you wanted a city car, you'd buy a 550iA. All the torque you need. Or even an Alpina B-whatever they have in Europe.

SMG + V10 high strung engine /= city car. Sorry.

-Chris

[dcbrewmeister]

Yeah it must be city MPG... BUt my question is WHY would you buy a race (practically) car to drive around town in ANYWAY??? Kinda like driving the Lambogini to the grocery isn't it?

This guy bought this car because he wanted a status symbol nothing more... He didn't buy it because he wanted an M5 because it was his dream car, he bought it so he could say "I own a BMW".

If he REALLY wanted an M5 he would STFU and buy some POS to drive back and forth to work with, and quit whining about the M5. No sypathy here...

[BDK]

If he REALLY wanted an M5 he would STFU and buy some POS to drive back and forth to work with, and quit whining about the M5. No sypathy here...

My thoughts exactly........He should have bought the Mini Cooper....

[T_C_D]

Yawn! Turbo e28 automatic with 425rwhp = grocery getter, 17/23mpg and M5 acceleration.
Todd

[BMWCCA2]

What I found remarkable about the new car was how docile and easy to drive in normal use and traffic it was. The first night of the BMW press launch I asked for a car to visit my daughter in college across the Hudson in Bronxville, NY. To my surprise they gave me a new M5 for the 60-mile trip. Coming home that night around 1am I-87 was under construction with one lane open so the traffic was backed up. I put the SMG in full auto mode and it shifted quite nicely. It is a little bit jerky in parking since it isn't an automatic and it will need a bit of throttle tip-in to start it going unlike an auto trans where you just side-step the brake and you're rolling but what the hell do you want? It does have a hill-holder function for aiding starting off on steep grades and that works well. In playing with the auto mode the SMG often pulled off downshifts that were as gentle and unnoticeable as a 750Li. Our conclusion was that it is a much better SMG for those who want to use the auto mode than the preceding SMGs but that's almost an accident of its design and certainly should not be the main reason for selecting this model over, say, a 550i.

The car will suck gas just as you'd expect a 500+ horsepower car to under the foot of a new owner. We were never gentle with the car and used WOT often, climbing to speeds of over 100mph on the public roads frequently and launching the car with several yards of wheelspin from stops. At the lunch stop we'd covered over 150 miles of this abusive driving and we'd used over a half-tank of gas. The car has an EPA rating of 18mph highway/12 city, which seems about right, and it only holds 18 gallons. I'm guessing we got between 12 and 15mpg driving the snot out of the car.

When I first drove the E39 M5 I had to stop every two-hours crossing Europe at 125 mph to fill up. That worked out to about 200-to-250 miles per tank or about the same as the new M5. I dare anyone to find a car that will do what this car does for even twice the price, plus carry four adults in comfort. To buy such a car for $85,000 and complain about how it works as an automatic and its fuel economy is absurd. I'll bet the guy doesn't even own one.

-Phil


[Edit by BMWCCA2 on [TIME]1130863031[/TIME]]

[Tim in N FL]

Yep, I'm with Todd...prefer to spend my money on kinder, simpler German iron equipped with a clutch and powered by an inline-6 (either normally aspirated OR forced induction)

Brad (BNC),
As you probably know, the (w124) M-B 500e / e500 was MBAG's answer to "AMG's Hammer". MBAG partnered with Porsche to jointly produce one of the meanest hand-assembled production sedans ever built, IMHO, after seeing the popularity/interest associated with the AMG Hammer. The raked stance and those fat fender flares really set-off the otherwise pedestrian w124's lines...IMO

Back to the thread....curious about the e60 ///M5 drivetrain...is a true manual gearbox available anymore or is SMG the ONLY choice? Also, I must say that those wheels look pretty B-L-I-N-Gy for a production BMW. What happened to their sense of style. Maybe they're plannin' on sellin these phat rhydz to the likes of tha urban playa and Hollywood rappaz %)

[Edit by Tim in N FL on [TIME]1130871279[/TIME]]

[Norwich535i]

Personally, that review makes the guy sound like an idiot. It's like being a single working mom(or dad) with 3 kids, buying a Nissan 350z and complaining that it dosent meet your daily needs-well NO shit shirlock. Hopefully when you die we can make an addition to the Darwin Awards......
I havent driven a BMW SMG tranny, but I have driven the Nissan shifttronic, and the BMW steptronic, or whatever they're called, and didnt like either of them. But, there was a review on here, I think from BMWCCA saying that the new SMG is smooth and shifts promptly and smoothly and all that jazz-basically everything thats wrong with the older smg's/sport auto's is gone in this new tranny. Maybe when one of you guys buys one, you can stop by in NJ

[John SCB]

"I would rather be driving my old M3 or Mustang than this high tech wonder..."

LOL - I can't say that I fully agree with this guy about rather driving a Mustang but I sure enjoy my GT....no complaints at all! :p

[BDK]

If you go to RF,
you'll see I am pushing Minis....LOL

Makes me laugh my ass off to tell this guy that maybe a Mini is better suited to his likes and dislikes....

ROTFLMAO.............

I am just playing.........

[Edit by BNC on [TIME]1130871312[/TIME]]


[Edit by BNC on [TIME]1130871354[/TIME]]

[dcbrewmeister]

<yawn> This guy goes out and buys an $80+++ vehicle, prolly a lease <annoyed sigh> and then proceeds to bitch about the around town drivability of a 500hp vehicle in traffic??? F**K HIM!!!!!!!!! Go buy a Metro and drive it you don't deserve an M5 or a BMW for that matter.

I'll say it again, NO SYMPATHY!!!!!!!!

[Tammer in Philly]

Tim, For now SMG is the only option (7-speed), but they will bring a traditional 6-spd manual to this market only (AFAIK) next year. I'm sure the German engineers are thinking, "Why would they not vant zees sieben-speed vunder?"

Norwich, an SMG car is way different than a steptronic or any other shiftable auto; it has a clutch and is essentially a manual transmission, only the computer shifts using an electrohydraulic mechanism. It retains all of the benefits of a traditional manual, no viscous-coupling parasitic losses and so on. They're surprisingly easy to drive perfectly smoothly IF you remember it has a clutch, just like with 3 pedals you need to breathe off the throttle on upshifts and such. And it can downshift better than 99.5% of the public.

I like SMG as a technology but I also like being able to drive a traditional manual well. I can't out-shift an SMG box but that's okay ....

-tammer

[Shawn D.]

[QUOTE="Tammer in Philly"]They're surprisingly easy to drive perfectly smoothly IF you remember it has a clutch, just like with 3 pedals you need to breathe off the throttle on upshifts and such.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure about the need to back off the throttle? Doesn't the ECU take care of that via the throttles-by-wire?

[clangpap]

Thanks for the explanation of SMG. Sounds a little like the electric preselection on the 1937 Cord, select the gear, stab the clutch when ready to shift. No real new ideas in the auto world is there, just improvements on old ideas. Oh yea, for the FI guys there was a supercharged version of the Cord in 1937 too.

[Tammer in Philly]

The throttle-by-wire does close the throttle but it's very abrupt, so if you leave your foot down and pull the upshift paddle, there's quite a jerk. Just breathing off halfway as you pull the paddle makes it very smooth, and passengers never notice a shift.

-tammer

[Nana535i]

I agree with the comments here. The guy did not understand what he was getting himself into. Just looking for a status symbol. I have a freind with a E46 SMG and he says backing off the throttle during upshifts makes it a lot smoother. I am BMW will get the software right eventually to take care of this.

[dcbrewmeister]

I can't see the throttle-by-wire working very well in a car... This has been done by GM and (I think in '02) they gave up on it. It had problems not closing or closing too far and stalling out the car, and was the leading cause of rich and lean burn symtoms. There's just a beautiful simplicity in a butterfly, a cable, and a spring that I think electronics is going to have a hard time replacing. JMO

[BMWCCA2]

BMW has used throttle-by-wire for years, well before SMG. That's not the problem. And, no, you don't really have to modulate the throttle to smooth out the shifts. In fact there are a bazillion settings you can use for the transmission shift mode to pick the amount of smack you want from the shifts, from full soft auto to as-fast-as-you-can sequential. Sequential mode offers 6 programs of sport shifting from "softest and slowest" to "hardest and quickest". Automatic Drive offers five modes from mildest to sportiest. The mildest auto-shift mode (D1) starts in second gear from a stop. The seven-speed SMG is optimized for shifting as an electro/hydraulic transmission but it can't be translated into a usable manual linkage pattern suitable for anyone but a spider on LSD. Hence the potential for a U.S.-only 6-sp manual scheduled for fall 2006 availability.

Equally as amazing as the new M5's performance (8,250 rpm redline, ten throttles, composite brakes) is its ability to cruise in such a docile manner as to fool anyone into thinking it's just another luxury sedan. This guy is nutz! Or his dealer didn't know how or didn't take the time to show him how the car worked. RTFM!

-Phil

[dcbrewmeister]

[QUOTE="BMWCCA2"] This guy is nutz! Or his dealer didn't know how or didn't take the time to show him how the car worked. RTFM!

-Phil[/QUOTE]

I still think he needs a Metro... I should be forced to drive his peice of crap M5 as shear torture for being an ass ~0

[Tammer in Philly]

[QUOTE="BMWCCA2"]BMW has used throttle-by-wire for years, well before SMG. That's not the problem. And, no, you don't really have to modulate the throttle to smooth out the shifts. In fact there are a bazillion settings you can use for the transmission shift mode to pick the amount of smack you want from the shifts, from full soft auto to as-fast-as-you-can sequential. Sequential mode offers 6 programs of sport shifting from "softest and slowest" to "hardest and quickest". Automatic Drive offers five modes from mildest to sportiest. The mildest auto-shift mode (D1) starts in second gear from a stop. The seven-speed SMG is optimized for shifting as an electro/hydraulic transmission but it can't be translated into a usable manual linkage pattern suitable for anyone but a spider on LSD. Hence the potential for a U.S.-only 6-sp manual scheduled for fall 2006 availability. [/QUOTE]

Phil, I don't doubt that you have much more seat time than I in any BMW variant, and you are probably right about SMG III, but in my admittedly limited experience with SMG II (E46 M3) there was no program that upshifted smoothly without a bit of help. Downshifts, on the other hand, were stunning.

-tammer

[BMWCCA2]

Well, this is not SMG-II. It's much better. But the whole point of this discussion seems to be that this is not an automatic transmission and this is an exotic car. I doubt a Ferrari shifts much better and that's the only choice in those cars, I think. Regardless, I've driven one a mere 300 miles now and I'd have no complaint using it as a daily driver in city traffic. But then if I could afford one, why wouldn't I have a commuter car more suited to city driving and economy? I also think the complaints leveled at the E46 M3 SMG is blown-out of proportion. Now if you want to complain about SMG (sequential-manual-gearbox, rather than sequential-M-gearbox) in the non-M cars, then I can't help you there. That system has no reason to live and is pathetic in every car I've driven (Z4 comes to mind).

-Phil

[Mdreamer]

[QUOTE="Tim in N FL"]Yep, I'm with Todd...prefer to spend my money on kinder, simpler German iron equipped with a clutch and powered by an inline-6 (either normally aspirated OR forced induction)

Brad (BNC),
As you probably know, the (w124) M-B 500e / e500 was MBAG's answer to "AMG's Hammer". MBAG partnered with Porsche to jointly produce one of the meanest hand-assembled production sedans ever built, IMHO, after seeing the popularity/interest associated with the AMG Hammer. The raked stance and those fat fender flares really set-off the otherwise pedestrian w124's lines...IMO

Back to the thread....curious about the e60 ///M5 drivetrain...is a true manual gearbox available anymore or is SMG the ONLY choice? Also, I must say that those wheels look pretty B-L-I-N-Gy for a production BMW. What happened to their sense of style. Maybe they're plannin' on sellin these phat rhydz to the likes of tha urban playa and Hollywood rappaz %)

[Edit by Tim in N FL on [TIME]1130871279[/TIME]][/QUOTE]

As a Black man, I must comment on this and a few other comments made periodically (I do not have quotes available because I usually choose to ignore and carry on) by some of the members of our community. While I realize that you probably don't mean any harm with the final sentence of your thoughts Tim, it is still highly offensive to me. How can it be offensive if it doesn't include me? Simple... The individuals that you've bunched together with that last statement look like me when we stand next to each other in a store, at a bookstore, or in a BMW showroom. I have friends who enjoy the styles that you and others on this board ridicule frequently. It is largely for reasons like this that many Black enthusiasts do not consider themselves welcome in groups that do not maintain relatively balanced demographics (are you listening BMWCCA?).

Of course, I realize that your sentiments are purely subjective and that you are entitled to think and express yourself as you wish, and it is not my intention to create an online e28 community that is constantly politically correct. I guess what my goal is in writing this to you and other members of the board is to notify you all that sometimes what you say amongst friends can be hurtful and upsetting to other members. I also realize that I could choose to not be a part of my e28.com, but that would (IMHO) take away from what we are trying to create here, right? I am a true BMW enthusiast who loves e28s just as much as anyone else on this board, and I'd like to contribute to the overall wealth of admiration, knowledge, and constant enjoyment of this model and BMWs in general. Please allow me to enjoy my passion without feeling insulted.

[Norwich535i]

I'm sure no one meant any harm in their comments-and I might get flamed for saying this, but oh well-that lifestyle is not for black people only, there are plenty of whites, hispanics, and so on. this "lifestyle" has also carried over to Japan from what I've seen. So, there is no point in being offended over that comment, as it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being black or not. It's simple poking at another style of a hobby, much like my grandparents thought my mom's hippy music was ridiculous and my mom can't understand whats so great about coolio, 50 cent, Rammstein and so on.

[John SCB]

I need to ask a simple question here: What does Black have to do with it? I doubt that most guys here even give color, religion or any personal preferences a second thought. Are you insulting my Irish/German/English roots? Thanks for sharing but I don't consider such background trivia relevent to the theme of this forum.

[BMWCCA2]

[QUOTE="Mdreamer"]I have friends who enjoy the styles that you and others on this board ridicule frequently. It is largely for reasons like this that many Black enthusiasts do not consider themselves welcome in groups that do not maintain relatively balanced demographics (are you listening BMWCCA?).[/QUOTE]
I realize you meant the Club not me personally (BMWCCA, BMWCCA1, or BMWCCA2 depending on the whim of this software) but I and many of my friends of color within the Club might challenge your statement. Are you a member? Have you been to a meeting or event? We're about the cars, and whether you're saying you don't feel welcome because you are black or because you "enjoy the styles that....others on this board ridicule frequently" it's not the Club's fault. I doubt anything anyone in the Club has done has made you feel that way. other than maybe just not looking like you. (I don't really feel welcome when I go to a Harley Owner's Group meet on my BMW either and, as a child of a Jewish parent, I certainly don't feel welcome in an evangelical Christian "club or many exclusive country club, but that's my problem.) And I suppose the winner of our Oktoberfest participation award for the last two years, himself a black man, might agree with me, not you. I have very good friends in CCA who are Asian, African-American, and Indian. I don't draw a distinction in the way I interact with them and neither does BMW CCA. Sure, some might say we discriminate against automatic transmissions, women, and SUVs when judged by their representation within the active Club membership. But then we are a club of enthusiasts who enjoy BMWs for the way they drive, and our activities are based on sportive driving. We also could be accused of discriminating against Oldsmobiles, too, but those reasons are just as obvious. Dubs and chrome don't make you faster at an autocross and that's not because the Club puts them at a disadvantage. Is that our fault? Are you listening?

-Phil Marx

[Mdreamer]

I appreciate the views that the last few posters have expressed, though I do not agree with them in their entirety. For your information, I have been a member of the CCA for eight years now, and I participated in club meetings and events regularly for the first seven of those eight (my current job has consumed most of my time for the past year). I can honestly say that a couple of what I consider to be real friends stem from our local chapter of the CCA. Does that validate my inclusion, Mr. Marx?

I do not expect most of you to understand or agree with my above statements. As a matter of fact, the comments that I made earlier this evening would most likely never be expressed were we sitting in a room face to face because I realize that the sometimes-hypersensitivity of race relations is a topic that will most likely never be fully understood or resolved in a conversation or two. The fact that who I'm assuming to be M. Washington (if it's not him, my mistake... I haven't kept up with that stuff for a while. I'm choosing him because his S14 is lovely) has won awards at the last two O'fests is great, but that does not eradicate the jist of what I was trying to highlight. In no way do I consider our club racist, and I agree that overall, it does a good job of bringing people of different races together. What I was saying is that some of the ideas, words, and vernacular that some of the members on this board choose to use are offensive to me as an individual. If I continue to feel this way I will probably do as I did before, which is read but not interact. No biggie...

At any rate, I will not revisit this topic anymore as I see it is a large can of worms that could be discussed forever. I apologize to the original poster for jacking his thread.

To touch on the original topic, I agree with the posters who've stated that anyone who buys an e60 //M5 and complains of bad mileage has totally missed the mark. 507hp and fuel economy do not go hand in hand!

[BMWCCA2]

Now you've thoroughly confused your own issue. You implied, no, you stated that groups including CCA make blacks feel uncomfortable and unwelcome simply because we don't "maintain relatively balanced demographics", like that's up to us!

I'll tell you what, if I felt unwelcome based on a a group's demographic stats I'd have never been president of BMW CCA based on income alone, or because I happen to have school-aged kids at home and still live with my wife of 15-years, or because I don't live in DC or San Francisco. I don't go around complaining that everyone in the Club makes more money than I ever did in the corporate world, or that they all drive new cars when I can't afford them, and I don't expect them to give me a new car if I want to join. They do all drive BMWs and that's enough for me, and it should be enough for you, too. Whether I'm talking to Tracy Bigelow, Mike Washington, Andre Noel, Charles Karnati, Joe Peng, Ben Thongsai, Sam Smith, or Thurston Howell, III, I'm using the same langauge and discussing the same topics as anyone else in the Club. So don't show your prejudice by condemning me or the club because of what you perceive to be inappropriate comments and langauge used on the Internet. You do yourself and your "cause" a disservice.

Hell, I'd even go so far as to say you owe many of us an apology.

-Phil

[Mdreamer]

You must not have read what I wrote, Marx. Read it again. I agreed that the club brings many different people together.

I will not apologize for doing nothing but stating my opinion.

Discussion over.

[BMWCCA2]

Oh! Then shall we just forget that you said:

Mdreamer wrote: I have friends who enjoy the styles that you and others on this board ridicule frequently. It is largely for reasons like this that many Black enthusiasts do not consider themselves welcome in groups that do not maintain relatively balanced demographics (are you listening BMWCCA?).

I guess we all misinterpreted what you said just hours ago. I'm willing to leave this topic, too, but not just because you won't own up to your own insults.

I don't appreciate the tone you're implying by using just my last name, either. At least I'm willing to post my name. And I'm sorry you've stretched my patience. Good-bye.

-Phil