m30 with s38 OEM ITB test fit

[jcbe34]

Haven't posted on here in a while but I figured some of the m30 guys on here might be interested in this.. I just got these throttle body adapters through a friend of a friend (who got them in Germany) and I just test fitted them today to see what its going to take to make them work. I know a few people on here have done this so I wanted to see how everyone has dealt with the issues. I'm planning on running velocity stacks with filters initally, and working on a plenum as a long term goal.








I know I need to modify the thermostat housing outlet and port match the intake ports. I am hoping to do something along these lines:



Here is the car, finally completely swapped and megasquirted:





I'll update this thread with my progress or problems!

[LandCruzer94]

VERY interested keep us updated!

[mooseheadm5]

Please take a picture of the adapter plate sitting on the head so we can see the mismatch with the ports.

Paul Burke is making some that match the ports more closely than the German adapters.

Need an OE plenum?

[jcbe34]

Yeah I thought about that after I left, I will take pictures of the ports. They are the s38 port on each side, so on the m30 head you need to extend the arc on the dimpled side of the port. Shouldn't be a big deal but it would definitely be nice if that were built into the adapter

I'm not sure I can use the stock plenum, the motor is pushed pretty far back in the e30 and with the thickness of the adapters I think the booster will be a problem. Do you have an e28 plenum or e34? The e28 version looks a bit slimmer

[Moose]

Definitely want to see this running in person when you finish it.

[paul burke]

I just attempted to write a large post regarding the ITB conversion, but once again this site (never happens anywhere else) logged me off before I could finish it which entern loses the post. Anyway in the vid you will notice my setup uses the Stock B35 fuel rail and linkage. I am working on a t-stat housing that runs the upper rad. hose exit underneath
the manifold just above the water pump. This is the ONLY mod. necessary with my plates, the rest of it is all stock un- modified O.E. BMW.


The shop doing the work is on the west coast so I don't know when it will be up and running, you can follow the install on e9coupe.com

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7812

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7enL4no1a4


Paul

[jcbe34]

Damn. That sounds like it would have been informative. That's great about the fuel rail, so do you think there would be a way to make the b35 injector wiring box to fit in there? That would really clean things up. What did you end up doing with the coolant neck?

Edit: nm, read your edit. I'd like to see pictures of that for sure. So do your adapters require zero porting?

[paul burke]

Damn. That sounds like it would have been informative. That's great about the fuel rail, so do you think there would be a way to make the b35 injector wiring box to fit in there? That would really clean things up. What did you end up doing with the coolant neck?

Edit: nm, read your edit. I'd like to see pictures of that for sure. So do your adapters require zero porting?

Look at the video and you will notice that its all wired up and ready to go once the t-stat housing is finished.

Paul

[jcbe34]

Oh wow I don't know how I missed that, I just thought there was no wiring, nice! What is that wiring box? The one on my motor is much bigger

[paul burke]

Oh wow I don't know how I missed that, I just thought there was no wiring, nice! What is that wiring box? The one on my motor is much bigger

How does the kit you purchased from the U.K deal with the lower B34/5 intake stud?

NO plate porting with the S38/B35 ITBs, there is however a peak in the center of the ITB port floor, if it is removed there is a complete perimeter match .

The B36/8 manifolds have a different shape and my plates can accommodate the change with some slight porting on the roof of the plates. I offer them both ways depending on which TBs are going to be used.

I wiil get the part number for the wire box and let you know.

I had to send the ITBs back to the shop working on the car and didn't have a chance to set up and take pictures. I have aquired another complete S38 ITB set up and will take some good pictures when I get some time. I went ahead and made 15 more sets of adapters, I liked the S38/M30 ITB idea enough to save a set for for my Bavaria, Its been apart for more than 9 years!!!
Paul

[mooseheadm5]

Do you have an e28 plenum or e34? The e28 version looks a bit slimmer

I've got a spare E28 plenum. At the very least you'll get the stock velocity stacks with it. If you want to borrow it for a fit test, we can work something out.

I believe that wiring loom box could be from an S38.

[jcbe34]

That's one thing I'm worried about. It has a counter sunk hole but it won't take a normal 12mm socket and it doesn't look like there is enough material to take anything off of the throttle bodies themselves. What did you do with yours?

[paul burke]

That's one thing I'm worried about. It has a counter sunk hole but it won't take a normal 12mm socket and it doesn't look like there is enough material to take anything off of the throttle bodies themselves. What did you do with yours?

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=85155

Post more info later.

Paul

[mooseheadm5]

I would wager that you are meant to replace the bottom studs with allen head screws.

[paul burke]

I would wager that you are meant to replace the bottom studs with allen head screws.

Funny thing is an 8x1.25 allen headed bolt has a head thats over .300 tall and those plates look pretty thin. Also brings up the question, why leave a stud on one side and counterbore the other?

The head of the allen cannot stick up above the adapter or it will interfere with the TB.

Paul

[mooseheadm5]

You can get thin head allen bolts from McMaster Carr. Heads are 5mm thick and 13mm diameter. It might work in this case.

[Shawn D.]

I just attempted to write a large post regarding the ITB conversion, but once again this site (never happens anywhere else) logged me off before I could finish it which entern loses the post.

I dunno what's causing that for you, but I've had it happen a couple of times for me. You will not lose everything if you log in, then page back directly to where you were drafting your post and then re-submit it.

[Matt]

I just attempted to write a large post regarding the ITB conversion, but once again this site (never happens anywhere else) logged me off before I could finish it which entern loses the post.

offtopic:

one thing i do, if i have written something long that i don't want to have to retype, right before hitting submit, i hit "ctrl-A, Ctrl-C" inside the typing window. that does "select all, copy"

then, if something goes wrong, the stuff i typed is saved in the clipboard, and when i get things figured out and am ready to try again, i just hit "ctrl-V" (paste) and its no effort lost.

i have had too many things that i spent time writing disappear because of shitty websites; i no longer trust them. now i pre-emptively guard against failure by doing the above.

[Rich Euro M5]

Not meaning to nit pick, but the ITBs being used on the E9 Coupe project are not from a S38B35, they are M88/3 TBs. There are three things which are distinctly different between the S38B35 and M88/3 ITBs, the S38 doesn't have a CSV, the fuel rail doesn't have the fuel line nipple for the CSV, and the TB with the throttle cable connection lacks provisions for the cruise control cable. All minor details but something anyone doing this conversion should be aware of.

Rich

[Mike W.]

Didn't Sweeney put them on his turbo E24 years ago? I don't recall the details if there were any, but I think he did.

[mooseheadm5]

He made a set of adapters from an M30 intake, and made a special coolant housing. I don't know if he ever used them, but Todd sold them to someone here.

[cgraff]

Not meaning to nit pick, but the ITBs being used on the E9 Coupe project are not from a S38B35, they are M88/3 TBs. There are three things which are distinctly different between the S38B35 and M88/3 ITBs, the S38 doesn't have a CSV, the fuel rail doesn't have the fuel line nipple for the CSV, and the TB with the throttle cable connection lacks provisions for the cruise control cable. All minor details but something anyone doing this conversion should be aware of.

Rich

I was about to write the same thing!

That fuel rail is NOT an M30 fuel rail. That looks like the M88 fuel rail, as it has a CSV.

Also I don't notice a t-stat housing in the video, which you said you were working on.

You'll need to make sure that this works with the S38 B35 fuel rail, as it is different, and also the fuel rail on the E24 M88 is actually different as well! The FPR is positioned at different angles between the E24 and E28 chassis, in the M88 motor.

In any case, if you can come up with the parts list and make up the ITB "kit" you'll be in like flint. Also, if you can come up with a method to rebuild the throttle linkage on S38 B35s (with the cruise control bracket), that'll be worth a pretty penny now too.

-Chris

P.S. The video wasn't too clear for me, but you'll also need to look into the clearance to and the accessibility of the TPS. You need to be able to adjust the TPS with the t-stat housing on so you can tune the throttle switch vs. the stops. Trust me when I said I've looked into this and know the problems and issues.

P.P.S. When using the ITB plenum, there's the oil return hose to figure out too... IIRC

[mooseheadm5]

Also, if you can come up with a method to rebuild the throttle linkage on S38 B35s (with the cruise control bracket), that'll be worth a pretty penny now too.

I just got a package from Philo. I'm on it.

[cgraff]

Also, if you can come up with a method to rebuild the throttle linkage on S38 B35s (with the cruise control bracket), that'll be worth a pretty penny now too.

I just got a package from Philo. I'm on it.

Nice!

[Rich Euro M5]

P.P.S. When using the ITB plenum, there's the oil return hose to figure out too... IIRC

Dipstick tube from an S38/M88 has a fitting for the intake plenum oil return line. I haven't compared the length of the M30 dipstick tube to the S38/M88 part, but I suspect they're similar in length.

Rich

[bm0p700f]

Apart from the throttle responce are there any power gains to be had with S38 throttle bodies or is this modification only viable to support other modifications.

[ElGuappo]

It wouldnt do much good on a bog standard 8:1 motor.

Now on the full banana euro 10:1, it would wake it up nicely.

[jcbe34]

Mine is a 10.5:1 m30b35 with m90 flat tops and 290 cam.. So I'm hoping it'll wake up nicely! But yeah, I wouldn't think a stock m30 would benefit as much

[Rich Euro M5]

P.P.S. When using the ITB plenum, there's the oil return hose to figure out too... IIRC

Dipstick tube from an S38/M88 has a fitting for the intake plenum oil return line. I haven't compared the length of the M30 dipstick tube to the S38/M88 part, but I suspect they're similar in length.

Rich

I measure both dipstick tubes and dipsticks. The M30 dipstick tube is approximately 8-3/4" long and the dip stick is 16" long. The dip stick tube is essentially straight.

The M88/3 dipstick tube is approximately 7-3/4" long is has a definite curve to clear the intake plenum. The dipstick is 15" long.

So me thinks anyone using the S38B35 or M88/3 ITBs and intake plenum should also use the S38/M88 dip stick tube and dipstick.

Rich

[cgraff]

P.P.S. When using the ITB plenum, there's the oil return hose to figure out too... IIRC

Dipstick tube from an S38/M88 has a fitting for the intake plenum oil return line. I haven't compared the length of the M30 dipstick tube to the S38/M88 part, but I suspect they're similar in length.

Rich

I measure both dipstick tubes and dipsticks. The M30 dipstick tube is approximately 8-3/4" long and the dip stick is 16" long. The dip stick tube is essentially straight.

The M88/3 dipstick tube is approximately 7-3/4" long is has a definite curve to clear the intake plenum. The dipstick is 15" long.

So me thinks anyone using the S38B35 or M88/3 ITBs and intake plenum should also use the S38/M88 dip stick tube and dipstick.

Rich

Yup. The dipsticks are different. Forgot about that. And those tubes are a PITA to change (I think you did yours? I did mine on my rebuild as well.)

-Chris