Advice request: issues regarding possible purchase of 524td

[mrdane]

I've found a 1986 524td that I'm considering purchasing. I'm 16 hrs from the vehicle, so I've been gathering information via the phone and email.

Does not start well with cold engine. Seller says the glow plug controller relay needs to be replaced. As listed for $350 on RealOEM here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=12&fg=15

Is this the correct part to fix that issue: http://www.autohausaz.com/search/produc ... Controller

It also suffers from a minor fuel leak that the seller says is at the IP, from one of the supply lines to an injector. Minor issue?

Timing belt was replaced 4-years-ago (at unknown mileage.) Is the belt healthy enough to make it home? Condition of belt looks like this:

[Kyle in NO]

That looks pretty shitty for a 4 year old belt, but if the miles are low, it should be ok.

If I'm wrong, pretend I never stated the previous advice.

[Frybrid 524td]

The fuel injector lines just have flared fittings so you should be able to tighten that up no problem.

That belt has a lot of little cracks in it. I'd change it rather than run the risk of blowing up the head. Someone stated on here that the timing belt should be changed every four years or 40k miles, whichever is sooner. YMMV.

What's the mileage and price? Be sure you want to get one of these cars, its a pretty serious commitment.

[mrdane]

The fuel injector lines just have flared fittings so you should be able to tighten that up no problem.

That belt has a lot of little cracks in it. I'd change it rather than run the risk of blowing up the head. Someone stated on here that the timing belt should be changed every four years or 40k miles, whichever is sooner. YMMV.

What's the mileage and price? Be sure you want to get one of these cars, its a pretty serious commitment.

218,000 miles

$1,400

I've owned a couple old BMWs and non-BMW diesels and have wanted a BMW diesel for some time.

I hope I enjoy the car. I'm not afraid of some wrenching here and there (with appropriate technical advice) and I'm willing to spend a little ($1,000-$2,000) to get things in proper order.

VIN is WBADB2407G0533598

Some photos as provided by seller:

[CoyoteStarfish]

Really nice looking car, nice and clean. Also you can't beat that price...


... But. Keep a few things in mind;

-It's a high-mileage engine, so it may need some serious TLC in the near future. And that goes for the chassis as well (suspension/drivetrain bushings, etc)
-The boost gauge and universal cone filter SCREAMS to me that the current owner may have "ragged" on it, trying to hot-rod it up a little.

If the current owner tried playing with boost levels or fuel settings, there may be damage to the turbocharger and possibly head from trying to push the engine to its edge, not counting on the fact that these engines can not take the punishment we'd expect from a diesel. Head cracking is so common on a M21, you'd be surprised NOT to find cracks.



All this being said; you CAN NOT find one of these engines in a junk yard 364 days out of the year without traveling out-of-state, and on the ONE day that you MIGHT find one, you definitely could NOT buy the ENGINE ALONE for that price. Trust me on that one, my friend paid $1,800 for a M21 with unknown miles that had been sitting for years.

[mrdane]

Regarding the timing belt, I'm looking for someone local to the car (1/2 hour north of Nashville, TN) to replace the belt for me before I pick up the car.

If any board members know someone, or are them self willing to tackle the job (with proper compensation), I would be grateful.

I might even be convinced to replace it myself, while I'm getting the car, but I would need adequate technical instruction prior to attempting such a limited-time undertaking.

(Let me know if I should start a separate thread related to finding someone to replace the timing belt.)

-The boost gauge and universal cone filter SCREAMS to me that the current owner may have "ragged" on it, trying to hot-rod it up a little.

That's exactly what I though too.

[CoyoteStarfish]

Replacing the timing belt is pretty easy.


Replacing the timing belt AND keeping the engine in time isn't quite as simple. But there are plenty of posts here that tell you how to do it properly with basic tools.


Basically, there are ways to keep the engine flywheel and injection pump cog locked in place @ TDC using a couple of drill bits. There is no way to lock the camshaft cog without a special tool, so you'll end up marking it in relation to the valve cover and might have to adjust it slightly when you put the belt back on to account for belt stretch and slack from the previous belt.


What I ended up doing was releasing the camshaft cog with the engine @ TDC, then rotated the cog clockwise until I felt a valve touch one of the pistons, then marked its location. did the same thing for counter-clockwise. Found the middle between the two marks and put the belt on. Haven't had a problem since.

[mrdane]

Replacing the timing belt is pretty easy.

Replacing the timing belt AND keeping the engine in time isn't quite as simple. But there are plenty of posts here that tell you how to do it properly with basic tools.

Basically, there are ways to keep the engine flywheel and injection pump cog locked in place @ TDC using a couple of drill bits. There is no way to lock the camshaft cog without a special tool, so you'll end up marking it in relation to the valve cover and might have to adjust it slightly when you put the belt back on to account for belt stretch and slack from the previous belt.

What I ended up doing was releasing the camshaft cog with the engine @ TDC, then rotated the cog clockwise until I felt a valve touch one of the pistons, then marked its location. did the same thing for counter-clockwise. Found the middle between the two marks and put the belt on. Haven't had a problem since.

I've concluded that I'll replace the timing belt myself when I get the car. Thanks for the last part of your post. I had a bit of anxiety over how to ensure I don't mess up the timing.

I had found posts on pinning the flywheel and IP, and makeshift ways of securing the cam, but I was a bit intimidated by the "what if's" regarding timing.

I'm sure I'll want to accurately adjust the timing sooner rather later, when I get the car. Can anyone point me in the direction of what tools will suffice, and where to get them, to dial in the injection pump timing?

Also, can anyone confirm if a single bad glow plug will cause the glow plug controller relay to not function?

[CoyoteStarfish]

To adjust pump timing you'll need a dial indicator, I've *heard* that you can use the same indicator used on older VW diesel engines and early Dodge/Cummins 5.9L engines, as they share the same injection pump (housing) as our M21s (Bosch VE series pumps)

I think the rebuild kits are the same, too. Which makes them easier to obtain

Can someone else confirm that for me?

Google 'Bosch VE', there is a TON of information out there on them.

[Kyle in NO]

Yes, one or more bad glow plugs will cause the glow plug controller not to function properly.

[Dotterweich]

I've *heard* that you can use the same indicator used on older VW diesel engines and early Dodge/Cummins 5.9L engines, as they share the same injection pump (housing) as our M21s (Bosch VE series pumps)

I think the rebuild kits are the same, too. Which makes them easier to obtain

I'm not sure about the pump rebuild kits, but the dial indicator setup for a VW works. The one I bought had a rectangular stock adapter to screw into the pump which needed to be ground down a little because there is a little less room there with 6 fuel lines instead of 4, but once fitted to the pump it works just fine.

[mrdane]

I'm not sure if the ContiTech timing belt I got from Autohaus is the correct one. The water pump I got sure looks different from the one on the car.

The timing belt part number from Autohaus is 11311279125.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct or not?

[Frybrid 524td]

I got my belt from Bav Auto and it has the same number as your Autohaus one. Mine fits fine. A good way to check is by counting the teeth on your old belt and comparing the replacement belt to see if they are indeed the same.

How is your water pump different? What do you mean?

[mrdane]

Thanks to know on the timing belt.

Never mind on the water pump, I just didn't have a good perspective on it. It does appear to be the same.

I'm having a bugger of a time getting the radiator fan off. That 32mm nut is reverse thread, right? I can't get enough tension on the water pump pulley to hold it secure so I can loosen the nut.

I've got a wrench on the nut and am tapping with a hammer to try to use inertia to my advantage, but nothing doing.

If anyone has some insight, call me at 715-five-two-nine-2511

Thanks.

[Frybrid 524td]

Yes, the fan clutch is reverse thread. You need a special tool to hold the water pump pulley while you unscrew the fan clutch. Where are you located? If nearby, you are more than welcome to borrow my fan counter holder.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/catalog ... htm#item35

[mrdane]

I've been somewhat occupied with other things since bringing the td home and have not driven it or wrestled with replacing the timing belt.

Tonight, I got the radiator fan off. And here is how I left it for the evening. Also, is the vibration dampener standard thread or reverse thread?

[ralph524]

Hi Mrdane,

I've been watching your posts because I live not far from where you said you were picking up the car from. I live in Louisville, KY and I go down to Nashville sometimes. I also just got a 524td last month, and parked it because the timing belt looked like yours. Now I've changed the timing belt, and it's no sweat if you take your time.

Where are you now?

Anyway, make sure are familiar with locking the flywheel and the injection pump before you move much further.

To remove the harmonic balance, there are 6 13mm bolts that go around the 22mm crank bolt. They are NOT reverse threaded. I would use a 22mm socket and breaker bar as a counterhold, not just the pins stuck in the flywheel and the IP. I'd hate for one of them to break and stay lodged in your transmission housing. Go ahead and loosen the compressor and P/S belts and get them out of the way.

Keep us posted on your progress.

[Brakepad]

My 524td timing belt looked exactly like that after have been sitting for 10 years.

[mrdane]

Thanks for the replies. I succeeded in removing the vibration damper and accessory belts.

I also pinned the flywheel, IP sprocket and secured the cam at TDC with two Vise-Grips. I marked the old belt on the IP and cam sprocket at a few locations with a grease pencil and have removed the old belt.

Lined-up with the old belt, I have also similarly marked the new belt. The new belt is on and lined-up with the markings.

A few concerns:
There seems to be considerable slack in the new belt between the cam and IP.
It's also quite difficult to tell if the belt is well seated on the crank sprocket.

Before I unpin everything and rotate the engine a few turns to ensure no valve/piston contact, I want to be fairly certain the belt is properly installed and that there is adequate tension on the belt.

BTW, the car is in South Dakota after successfully driving it home.

[Frybrid 524td]

A few concerns:
There seems to be considerable slack in the new belt between the cam and IP.

Before tightening the new belt to spec, you should remove the pin in the IP cog. This will allow any slack to be removed as you leverage the belt tensioner. You probably noticed the rather larger index hole in the cam cog, this allows the cam cog to rotate CCW and feed excess slack to the tensioner. Without removing the IP pin, you'll only be able remove some of the belt slack. The pin is just used to keep the IP locked while the belt is off.

Hope this helps.

[mrdane]

Thanks frybrid. I somehow had managed to miss the reference to the cam sprocket bolt in the Lincoln supplement.

I tensioned the belt, tightened the necessary bolts and it started right up and idled fine and throttled up fine! Horay!

My first timing belt replacement (ever) is now under my belt (no pun intended.)

Next is sorting out the cold start issue. I need to troubleshoot the glow plug relay system.