Mods?

[Cory]

If one were starting with a pristine E28 M5 with zero issues what might be a sensible series of easy to moderately easy engine mods? The suspension has already been replaced with Bilsteins, but everything else is generally stock and showroom fresh, kinda.
Leaving it alone is also a very viable option, but just wondering.
Thanks.

[535is-pa]

why start with a limited production model that many value in its stock form???? id only consider suspension an acceptibal "mod" to a real e28 m5. or replacing the s38 for an m88, witch if your asking i guess you dont know the expense/rarity of these engines

just buy a 535is youll have more color options and more avalibility for a cheaper base price. then mod the hell out of that. drop a late m3 engine in it or something intersting

when im looking for an m5 in 2 or 3 years ill be real sad if all i can find is "modded" one

[Cory]

Good point and great advice. Just daydreaming at the computer. I wonder if a track pipe makes sense if my catalytic converter ever poops out.

[Philo]

The basics

* cam gear
* air filter
* good fluids
* ECU chip
* Fresh bushings
* Maybe some suspension mods

And the one mod that will make the car handle better..., new sport tires set to 34psi front and 30psi rear to help dial out the under steer.

Philo.

[bdog]

10 years ago I spent 3 years properly looking for a gem, sounds like you found one of your own, bravo. Motor wise the 1st thing you should do is tune it up well including an initial leak down cold, then a hot one after the valve adjustment and a hard drive. 2nd thing to do is find out if the stock OEM systems are working properly (A-F ratio in the middle, no lazy O2 readings, TPS signals working as designed,AFM working in it's envelope with no "burps" and the temp sensor in it is in spec). If all is well thus far do a super flush to all the fluids; Motor/trans/diff/brake incl clutch/ PS-brake power- LSR fluid change w/filter, brake and coolant flush (there is more to this than meets the eye). Then drive the car for a while say 2K miles, change the motor oil again and re-check the valves and A-F. If they haven't moved much and the oil looks kinda clean coming out THEN start thinking about modifying the thing. Mod wise and in preferred order; Alignment of the toe while noting the other specs of the caster camber for the front and rear for later ref, Headlight low beam R&R w/CBA (Cibie) Z/CSR-beam drop in (http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/csr.html) or E code anything (7" euros are ok too), remove the shifting slop with OE parts (No short shift kit needed IMHO). After all this "normal stuff" and you still want to alter the ride, buy a chip (Jim C, D’Silva, Dinan) and run tier 1 high octane gas and you will gain some power by the advanced from stock ignition timing. If you want more power from the lower rpm’s, you can install the “EVO” exhaust cam sprocket.

I’m rambling but my main point to you is get the car running properly 1st (The toughest part with a 20 year old car), drive it in this state for a bit, than modify it to your liking in that order.

Brian

[Rich Euro M5]

IMO, anything that is a bolt on / in mod that can be removed at a later date is acceptable. Don't cut holes in sheetmetal or interior pieces to install speakers. I'm also not fond of garish ///M Sport colors on the valve cover or intake plenum, keep the engine bay in stock appearance from a color standpoint. If calipers are to be painted, Black is the perfect color. If you want Red calipers buy a Porsche.

Just my $.02.

Rich

[JayM]

If one were starting with a pristine E28 M5 with zero issues what might be a sensible series of easy to moderately easy engine mods? The suspension has already been replaced with Bilsteins, but everything else is generally stock and showroom fresh, kinda.
Leaving it alone is also a very viable option, but just wondering.
Thanks.

Upgrade the crank hub, though that may not fit the definition of "easy."

I think we're getting to the point soon where "original" or "period mods" are going to be of more value.

[Cory]

Thanks again for the good guidance. I'm back to leaving it alone and maybe blowing out the top end (to factory specs)/timing chain at some point in the foreseeable future. My "man" does recommend the Dinan chip and gear, but maybe not. That leaves the exhaust as a possible thing as the current components bug out (brand new stock exhaust with aftermarket cat); which won't be for awhile because they're new.
I figured I'd do my oil every 3,000 miles. That time's about now and the oil level hasn't budged in 3,000 miles and it's still minty on the dipstick. I'll probably do it anyway. All other maintenance is 100% current.

[M5ZEALOT]

The basics


Totally agree with Philo. Chip and Cam gear were a very noticealbe mod no matter what snake oil most think Mr. Dinan is selling. Fahey track pipe will also yeild some HP gains. If you can find them Euro headers even more. Fahey Crank hub is not really liked by most of my M5 buddies including my mechanic, Expensive and not easy to replace. We call it a "Fakey" hub or Fahey "Prank" hub. (No offense Frank ) All our engines went over 200k hard miles without any mishaps to the hub. Keep in mind an average rebuild runs about $13k+. I can share dyno results with you in Pvt mail.

* cam gear
* air filter
* good fluids
* ECU chip
* Fresh bushings
* Maybe some suspension mods

And the one mod that will make the car handle better..., new sport tires set to 34psi front and 30psi rear to help dial out the under steer.

Philo.

[Cory]

I wonder if the Dinan chip and gear works great with the Fahey Track Pipe. The Dinan stuff for low end with the track pipe (when my cat goes bad, if it ever does) for the upper end.
Keep the airbox stock with factory replacement filter?

[M5ZEALOT]

YES YES YES. check your pvt email. S38 engines are amazing because they respond so well to minor bolt on mods due to their "old school" electronics I believe that the factory choked up the engine so much to make it pass emissions in 1988 in haste. Lower compression pistons and ECU mods were pretty much all they did to rob 30 HP from it. Most don't know this but the US muffler is actually more free flowing than Euro one because it makes up for the converter. Dinan used to sell a modified version were they cut open the stock muffler and remove some baffles. Chip upgrade and opening up exhaust really gets in closer to the Euro engine's 286 HP. Engine is bullet proof. W/ proper care you can surpass 200k easily.

Found this link to Dinan mods for E28 M5's

[Cory]

Sounds like the chip and gear are no brainers (which is consistent with my mechanic's thoughts and he's very competent). Maybe the Fahey Track Pipe later on. After all of that is there any real gain from the right header or not really?

[Cory]

I think the final call is to leave most of it alone (to include keeping my Conforti software as is), but go with a Dinan gear, Fahey Crank Hub and the cat only that'll soon be available at www.VSR1.com .

[Kam]

I think the final call is to leave most of it alone (to include keeping my Conforti software as is), but go with a Dinan gear, Fahey Crank Hub and the cat only that'll soon be available at www.VSR1.com .

Looks like you’ve gotten some great advise, I would just like to add this, when I finally get an M5 I would ABSOLUTLY NEVER want to sell it therefore I wouldn’t care much about what someone might think on the “resale” side as a result I would end up making it truly “my” M5 with whatever types of mods that entails. On the other hand, if someone is buying an M5 for investment purposes, that’s a different story. Anyway, stock or modified, “E28 M5”,,,,,, what an amazing machine.

[M5ZEALOT]

I think the final call is to leave most of it alone (to include keeping my Conforti software as is), but go with a Dinan gear, Fahey Crank Hub and the cat only that'll soon be available at www.VSR1.com .

My friends give me a hard time about all the mods I have done. But....like you said it is an amazing machine even under today's standards and I'm keeping it forever. Resale value is not an issue. I have driven newer M5s and my heart still goes out to my old girl. She sounds so much more mechanical than the E39 V-8 which you can barely hear at idle. And the best part.......all my stability controls are hardwired into my brain and right foot.

Looks like you’ve gotten some great advise, I would just like to add this, when I finally get an M5 I would ABSOLUTLY NEVER want to sell it therefore I wouldn’t care much about what someone might think on the “resale” side as a result I would end up making it truly “my” M5 with whatever types of mods that entails. On the other hand, if someone is buying an M5 for investment purposes, that’s a different story. Anyway, stock or modified, “E28 M5”,,,,,, what an amazing machine.

[MShimon]

I read somewhere the difference between the Dinan cam sprocket and Frank Fahey cam sprocket, does anyone know the difference?

[M5ZEALOT]

I read somewhere the difference between the Dinan cam sprocket and Frank Fahey cam sprocket, does anyone know the difference?

As fas as I know Fahey does not make a exhaust cam sproket for stock S38 motors. He may for the racing engine he has in his M1. His shop is only about 7 miles from here and he sells his "prank hub" and test pipes. He didn't try to sell me a cam sprocket when I bought my test pipes from him. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mario L.]

I can't resist . . .

Mods have their place, and how someone uses their car is up to them, That said, BMW ///M Cars of the "real M car vintage" in stock form are very hard to find . .
and as we're seeing in the E30 M3 market, good ones demand a tall price tag . . especially if the mileage is L O W . . . but prices fall off over 125K . . . modified cars sell for less regardless of mileage, unless the mods are all BMW optional items, in the case of the E30 M3, that's all the Evolution parts . . .

If your E28 M5 has under 70K miles, maintenance, and keep it as stock as possible, even the load leveling!

70-100K miles, drive it enjoy it and take good care of it . .

over 100K . . its a free for for all . . modify, maintain, track it, and love every minute of it.

My own car is getting close to 155K . . has two new fenders, replaced doors because of the rust in the front jamb hinge area and the fiberglass body kit from BMP , Euro lights, Dinan suspension, and 16 x 8.5 modular ACT wheels . . I drive it hard, and use it . . when it breaks, I'll just fix it again.

So for those of you who have driven them hard, and burned out your exhaust, or need new cats . . or just want a bit more power . . .

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=40358

Thanks,
Mario L.
www.VSR1.com

[M5ZEALOT]

I agree with Mario...but if you don't don't some mods, a kid joyriding his mom's V-6 Hyundia Sonota will either keep up with you or pass you to 120 MPH! So many new stock cars now with automatic transmissions can out sprint an stock E28 M5 regardless how well you drive. There ok, now back to being an adult.

[Rich Euro M5]

I can't resist . . .

Mods have their place, and how someone uses their car is up to them, That said, BMW ///M Cars of the "real M car vintage" in stock form are very hard to find . .
and as we're seeing in the E30 M3 market, good ones demand a tall price tag . . especially if the mileage is L O W . . . but prices fall off over 125K . . . modified cars sell for less regardless of mileage, unless the mods are all BMW optional items, in the case of the E30 M3, that's all the Evolution parts . . .

If your E28 M5 has under 70K miles, maintenance, and keep it as stock as possible, even the load leveling!

70-100K miles, drive it enjoy it and take good care of it . .

over 100K . . its a free for for all . . modify, maintain, track it, and love every minute of it.

My own car is getting close to 155K . . has two new fenders, replaced doors because of the rust in the front jamb hinge area and the fiberglass body kit from BMP , Euro lights, Dinan suspension, and 16 x 8.5 modular ACT wheels . . I drive it hard, and use it . . when it breaks, I'll just fix it again.

So for those of you who have driven them hard, and burned out your exhaust, or need new cats . . or just want a bit more power . . .

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=40358

Thanks,
Mario L.
www.VSR1.com

Mario,

Interesting thoughts about mods vs originality. My Euro M5 is basically original except for what was done during federalization, most of which has been removed. Fortunately the importer was able to get it through without adding the trailer light side markers so often used. The only non-stock item on the car when I acquired it was the exhaust system and the K&N panel filter. Otherwise it's 100% stock with a little over 107K miles.

I'm leaning towards simply maintaining the car in it's stock form with only minor mods such as the Miller MAF.

Rich

[Cory]

I'm leaning towards maybe just starting with Mario's cat and seeing what's up from there. Then maybe a gear and crank hub and maybe not. There's probably lots of info on the Miller MAF, but (in a nutshell) what's the deal with that?
Thanks.

[JayM]

Interesting thoughts about mods vs originality. My Euro M5 is basically original except for what was done during federalization, most of which has been removed. Fortunately the importer was able to get it through without adding the trailer light side markers so often used. The only non-stock item on the car when I acquired it was the exhaust system and the K&N panel filter. Otherwise it's 100% stock with a little over 107K miles.

I'm leaning towards simply maintaining the car in it's stock form with only minor mods such as the Miller MAF.

Mine (Euro) has about 180k km (about 112500 miles). I plan to leave it stock. I have no plans to sell it any time soon, but I figure 10 years from now my attitude could change, and even with 200k km on it it will be worth more unmolested than if I started making changes. There aren't many left in original condiction, and I have records back to its build, except for a gap from about 160k km to 178k km (not the best place for a manitenance gap - the magic 100k mile period, but I have every indication the car didn't suffer for it).

[tn535i]

I'm in the midst of bringing a basically stock e24 S38 back to life and in most ways I would like to leave it stock but the TRX rims and tires make that impossible. M5 owners be glad that you have a wheel that still works. I also will choose one day to return my 535 to a more stock appearance since the 7 spoke wheels the PO installed just don't fit the character of the car. That car was also cursed with TRX disease and my 1st choice would be a set of e28 M5 wheels but they are soo hard to find and then $$$.

So I am in the stock appearance camp and I believe the e28 and e24 cars looked great just as they came. IMHO any wild paint or body kits should incur punative damages. I did look at one M5 that had a hand painted, three color(M colors) pinstripe that was very cool and tasteful too.

I'm less opinionated on most of the rest where each to his own taste is the way to go. Suspension and motor mods are basically bolt on and everything could be returned to stock if the parts are saved. It's pretty plain to see that there are a bunch of 3ish liter 6 cylinder motors out there making 300+ hP which will probably flat outrun these old supercars. Anyone seen the latest Ward's 10 best engines? So trying to kick it up just a bit seams the natural thing to do.

I appreciate all the insight and opinions I'm gathering here and personally only leaning toward a cam gear and chip for my motor with otherwise stock parts for all the rest that might need R&R.

[johnnye23]

I'm in the midst of bringing a basically stock e24 S38 back to life and in most ways I would like to leave it stock but the TRX rims and tires make that impossible. M5 owners be glad that you have a wheel that still works. I also will choose one day to return my 535 to a more stock appearance since the 7 spoke wheels the PO installed just don't fit the character of the car. That car was also cursed with TRX disease and my 1st choice would be a set of e28 M5 wheels but they are soo hard to find and then $$$.

So I am in the stock appearance camp and I believe the e28 and e24 cars looked great just as they came. IMHO any wild paint or body kits should incur punative damages. I did look at one M5 that had a hand painted, three color(M colors) pinstripe that was very cool and tasteful too.

I'm less opinionated on most of the rest where each to his own taste is the way to go. Suspension and motor mods are basically bolt on and everything could be returned to stock if the parts are saved. It's pretty plain to see that there are a bunch of 3ish liter 6 cylinder motors out there making 300+ hP which will probably flat outrun these old supercars. Anyone seen the latest Ward's 10 best engines? So trying to kick it up just a bit seams the natural thing to do.

I appreciate all the insight and opinions I'm gathering here and personally only leaning toward a cam gear and chip for my motor with otherwise stock parts for all the rest that might need R&R.

I may have set of stock E28 M5 wheels for sale in the next month if you are interested .

[scottiesharpe]

Being able to control the timing advance really made the engine come alive, I think. I'm doing this with the Miller Tuner's Kit and a Mallory Igntion Coil controller.

I don't know if it qualifies as a "mod" but I think another sensible trick is putting an indicator light on the heated seat.

Me on the freeway: Damn it! Why is my A$$ so hot and itchy?
Damnit, I bumped the friggen heated seat switch on ... again!!

[scottiesharpe]

I'm leaning towards maybe just starting with Mario's cat and seeing what's up from there. Then maybe a gear and crank hub and maybe not. There's probably lots of info on the Miller MAF, but (in a nutshell) what's the deal with that?
Thanks.

Miller MAF Info:

http://www.scottiesharpe.com/bmw/m5/maf2/default.htm

[Nicke28]

IMO the value of a car depends more on the history than if its stock or not. Case in point, the Dinan turbo cars, Harte, and Alpina cars are usually worth more than a stock e28 in equal condidtion.


I think this article sums up the subject very well. http://www.mustangandfords.com/projectb ... index.html

[JayM]

IMO the value of a car depends more on the history than if its stock or not. Case in point, the Dinan turbo cars, Harte, and Alpina cars are usually worth more than a stock e28 in equal condidtion.


I think this article sums up the subject very well. http://www.mustangandfords.com/projectb ... index.html

Yes and no. If a car has modifications with a pedigree, like Dinan, Hartge or Schnitzer, it may increase the value, more so if the mods are "period." Alpina the same, though they are in a different league. Mods by anyone else only increase the value if the buyer values them, and are unlikely to translate into greater value in the long run (the opposite, in fact).

In the "normal" car world, production rarity is also important (your article points this out). In the E28 body around 2200 were made as M5s, out of 3/4 of a million e24-bodied cars. About 1300 were US/Can spec, just short of 600 Euro spec, and just short of 200 Euro spec RHD for the UK (plus 96 RHD for South Africa). How many are original, or near original? Unmodified M5s of any stripe are rare. They aren't going to be fetching big coin for at least another 15 years though.

[Cory]

The final call is Mario's cat and a Dinan Cam Gear. Already have Conforti software. I'll report back my findings after the damage is done.

[MShimon]

Just a question, why did you go with the Dinan cam gear as opposed to the Fahey cam gear? I'm just curious as to if there is any advantage to either of them.

I really would like to get some reviews on Mario's cat system, I really am glad that he produced it and I will probably purchase one later down the line.