anyone a e36 guru?

[SD45T-2]

it looks like my sis is getting a e36 325i

so i was wondering if anyone knew were the check pannel was?


also just for shits n giggles i found a cheap m S52 Engine cover
can i swap it on? its just plastic right?

thax in advance

[Wiseguy]

What do you mean by Check Panel?

The Active Check Control display is located on the OBC Display which is under the climate head.

Both the 11 button and the 18 button OBCs have Check Control.

An S52 engine cover won't fit on a 325i.. the 325i uses an M50 (1992) or an M50TU (93-95 with VANOS). The oil cap is in a different location on the M50/S50 vs the M52/S52

You can use one off of an S50.

On an E36 the bvig things are interior, suspension and COOLING SYSTEM!

You live where it gets very hot. If she buys it, and unless you can PROVE it's been done recently, budget on a new cooling system for the car.

Period.

Unlike E28s E36s are prone to absolute cooling system failures... radiator necks snap off, expansion tanks blow, etc... do it all... Water Pump, Radiator, Aluminum T-Stat housing and T-Stat, Expansion tank, hoses, etc.

Watch the lower control arms, tie rods and rear trailing arm bushings for wear.

If it's a 5-speed in particular, watch the rear subframe mounts for cracking and damage.

Make sure the door panels aren't all puckered.

Avoid automatics... expensive to fix when they break.

I am an E36 Guru FWIW.

[SD45T-2]

What do you mean by Check Panel?

The Active Check Control display is located on the OBC Display which is under the climate head.

Both the 11 button and the 18 button OBCs have Check Control.

An S52 engine cover won't fit on a 325i.. the 325i uses an M50 (1992) or an M50TU (93-95 with VANOS). The oil cap is in a different location on the M50/S50 vs the M52/S52

You can use one off of an S50.

On an E36 the bvig things are interior, suspension and COOLING SYSTEM!

You live where it gets very hot. If she buys it, and unless you can PROVE it's been done recently, budget on a new cooling system for the car.

Period.

Unlike E28s E36s are prone to absolute cooling system failures... radiator necks snap off, expansion tanks blow, etc... do it all... Water Pump, Radiator, Aluminum T-Stat housing and T-Stat, Expansion tank, hoses, etc.

Watch the lower control arms, tie rods and rear trailing arm bushings for wear.

If it's a 5-speed in particular, watch the rear subframe mounts for cracking and damage.

Make sure the door panels aren't all puckered.

Avoid automatics... expensive to fix when they break.

I am an E36 Guru FWIW.

thanks man, I really apperate it, this is great info Yes its a automatic the guy is letting it go for $2500.00 it was from michigan and has some rust inside the Spare and the quater pannels sound a bit full aka BONDo SO im gonna carfax it tommrow. so,But in all out we dont care its just a Point A -point b Car and in all respect i would have gottn a E28 or e30 no.

The car has new suspension and is stiff,also has a Racing dynamics Front Bar on it. the interior is really great, ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE SEEN BESIDE THE Subpostive bondo"

is there is oil on the SWAY BAr. The pcv works as i checked for a stall and ran just as good with the oil cap off.,as it did on.

any thing i should be aware of on that Oil on the sway bar, the sun had just set when i saw it.

[SD45T-2]

hey i just looked at a S50' cover VS A m50

The oil cap are two differnt spots on these covers.

[wkohler]

Dude, did you not see the cheap E30s on Craigslist? They're much better cars and don't have rust or bondo.

[JohnH]

Just because the OBC has a CHECK button, don't mean that its got Active Check Control fitted. Try removing a rear stop light and see if you get any messages up, then you will know!

Rear springs also snap, so the car tends to crab a bit. Get it four wheel aligned.

E36's really are the pits of BMW design. They were great for the first 10 miles out of the dealership, then things start to break. Switchgear, door cards, steering column bushes and slip rings, headlamp washers, drivers seats clicking and squirming plus all the bits Wiseguy mentioned. Oh, also rear brake lines that corrode every five years and require fuel tank removal to replace.

Get familiar with realoem.com its your best E36 resource. Also check out Pelican Parts website and their 101 projects book. Thats probably the best BMW manual ever written and its only $20 thru Amazon.

I will make a bet with you, that what ever you pay for this POS I bet that to get and keep it in good and safe condition you will spend more in the first year of ownership than you pay for it.

By the way I am also an ex E36 guru. Never again.

[Tammer in Philly]

Just because the OBC has a CHECK button, don't mean that its got Active Check Control fitted. Try removing a rear stop light and see if you get any messages up, then you will know!

Rear springs also snap, so the car tends to crab a bit. Get it four wheel aligned.

E36's really are the pits of BMW design. They were great for the first 10 miles out of the dealership, then things start to break. Switchgear, door cards, steering column bushes and slip rings, headlamp washers, drivers seats clicking and squirming plus all the bits Wiseguy mentioned. Oh, also rear brake lines that corrode every five years and require fuel tank removal to replace.

Get familiar with realoem.com its your best E36 resource. Also check out Pelican Parts website and their 101 projects book. Thats probably the best BMW manual ever written and its only $20 thru Amazon.

I will make a bet with you, that what ever you pay for this POS I bet that to get and keep it in good and safe condition you will spend more in the first year of ownership than you pay for it.

By the way I am also an ex E36 guru. Never again.

With 3 E36s in my family, I have to beg to differ. They've all been virtually trouble-free, though the super-early-build '94 cabrio did have some electronics issues early on.

-tammer

[cgraff]

I will make a bet with you, that what ever you pay for this POS I bet that to get and keep it in good and safe condition you will spend more in the first year of ownership than you pay for it.

By the way I am also an ex E36 guru. Never again.

With 3 E36s in my family, I have to beg to differ. They've all been virtually trouble-free, though the super-early-build '94 cabrio did have some electronics issues early on.

-tammer

With 5 E36s owned in the immediate family and one close friend (2 '99 M3s, 1 325i, 2 328iS), I have to say that although the E36 may not be as robust as a 300k mile 535i, it is just as good as a 'real' BMW.

If you stay on top of maintenance and a few key repair items, these cars will last a long time.

Many of the things have been said already but:
1. Cooling system replacement at 80-100k miles - EVERYTHING gets replaced. Parts are cheap, labor is long, but easy.
2. VANOS units go like clockwork, and they're not that cheap, unfortunately.
3. Final stage resistors, later style (96+) HVAC control units have the capacitor fail.
4. AC Condensors leak and need replacement every 100k.
5. Shocks last between 60k (M3) and 100k (easily driven 325s)
6. Rear springs have been known to snap, causing SBS (sagging butt syndrome)
7. Headlights will yellow - replace crappy US plastic units with good Euro glass ones.
8. Valve covers will start to leak (90k+)
9. Coils can go bad ($50 ea x 6)
10. Cam and crank position sensors can also go bad (OBD2 will throw codes)
11. Drivelines are decently robust (manuals); driveshafts, center bearings, guibos last longer than E28s. GM 4-speed automatics last a decently long time (generally >100k).
12. Wheel bearings on older cars may wear out, and are a pain to replace.
13. Rear suspension bushings are generally dead by 100-120k miles. RTAB should be replaced earlier, particularly on M3s or mod'd cars.
14. Front LCABs last ~ 60k. Heavy duty LCAs are recommended. Tie rods can wear out in 90k. Lots of upgrades to choose from for the suspension parts.
15. Interior door panels inserts will delaminate - $50 ea to replace.
16. Glove box sags, early dashes warp slightly at the center vents.
17. Airbag lights go with the seat sensor or belt buckle sensor. (easy replacement and not *that* expensive)
18. Coupe door/window seals wear out quickly as well as the door regulator and motors.
19. On northeast cars, rust will start around the rear trunk area by the lights and rocker panels - mostly cosmetic, but it's just because these areas take a beating with the salt.
20. Last and finally, rear floor failure at the subframe mounting points. Find it early, and it's easily fixable. Budget $700-1000 for labor and welding. Redo rear suspension bushings at the same time (and rear rubber fuel lines). Problem is that your car is off the road for a good period of time. This is generally a fatigue issue - Tammer, Wiseguy, and a lot of the E36 and E46 gurus will tell you the same thing - it's a matter of when not if. Problem is the when can be at 40k miles or at 400k miles. It's just one of those things that you have to keep an eye out. Ideally the E36 M3, one that is easily driven, will last the longest b/c of factory additional reinforcement plates. IMO the early (99-00) E46s are worst offenders.

Current holdings:
'99 M3 w/70k miles, bought at 25k
'94 325i w/170k miles, bought new
'96 328iS w/130k miles, bought at 110k

I'll never say an E36 is trouble free. But for a DIY who has time to devote to it, it's not a bad daily driver choice. Prices have seriously come down in recent years. Early 325s can be had for $2k (but need a LOT of work). I'd recommend paying $4k+ for 325s that have been owned by enthusiasts and are up to date on all the 'gotchas'. I'd also recommend against heavily modified ones. M3s generally trade for $8k to $18k (95 M3s to 99 M3 convertibles). But you *have* to watch out for those that are heavily driven or modified.

An E36 makes a great, cheap, BMW daily driver, so long as you know what you're getting into, and can stand the 'little' problems that crop up in a DIY manner. Otherwise expect to BOHICA.

-Chris

[rlomba8204]

With 5 E36s owned in the immediate family and one close friend (2 '99 M3s, 1 325i, 2 328iS), I have to say that although the E36 may not be as robust as a 300k mile 535i, it is just as good as a 'real' BMW.

If you stay on top of maintenance and a few key repair items, these cars will last a long time.

Many of the things have been said already but:
1. Cooling system replacement at 80-100k miles - EVERYTHING gets replaced. Parts are cheap, labor is long, but easy.
2. VANOS units go like clockwork, and they're not that cheap, unfortunately.
3. Final stage resistors, later style (96+) HVAC control units have the capacitor fail.
4. AC Condensors leak and need replacement every 100k.
5. Shocks last between 60k (M3) and 100k (easily driven 325s)
6. Rear springs have been known to snap, causing SBS (sagging butt syndrome)
7. Headlights will yellow - replace crappy US plastic units with good Euro glass ones.
8. Valve covers will start to leak (90k+)
9. Coils can go bad ($50 ea x 6)
10. Cam and crank position sensors can also go bad (OBD2 will throw codes)
11. Drivelines are decently robust (manuals); driveshafts, center bearings, guibos last longer than E28s. GM 4-speed automatics last a decently long time (generally >100k).
12. Wheel bearings on older cars may wear out, and are a pain to replace.
13. Rear suspension bushings are generally dead by 100-120k miles. RTAB should be replaced earlier, particularly on M3s or mod'd cars.
14. Front LCABs last ~ 60k. Heavy duty LCAs are recommended. Tie rods can wear out in 90k. Lots of upgrades to choose from for the suspension parts.
15. Interior door panels inserts will delaminate - $50 ea to replace.
16. Glove box sags, early dashes warp slightly at the center vents.
17. Airbag lights go with the seat sensor or belt buckle sensor. (easy replacement and not *that* expensive)
18. Coupe door/window seals wear out quickly as well as the door regulator and motors.
19. On northeast cars, rust will start around the rear trunk area by the lights and rocker panels - mostly cosmetic, but it's just because these areas take a beating with the salt.
20. Last and finally, rear floor failure at the subframe mounting points. Find it early, and it's easily fixable. Budget $700-1000 for labor and welding. Redo rear suspension bushings at the same time (and rear rubber fuel lines). Problem is that your car is off the road for a good period of time. This is generally a fatigue issue - Tammer, Wiseguy, and a lot of the E36 and E46 gurus will tell you the same thing - it's a matter of when not if. Problem is the when can be at 40k miles or at 400k miles. It's just one of those things that you have to keep an eye out. Ideally the E36 M3, one that is easily driven, will last the longest b/c of factory additional reinforcement plates. IMO the early (99-00) E46s are worst offenders.

Current holdings:
'99 M3 w/70k miles, bought at 25k
'94 325i w/170k miles, bought new
'96 328iS w/130k miles, bought at 110k

I'll never say an E36 is trouble free. But for a DIY who has time to devote to it, it's not a bad daily driver choice. Prices have seriously come down in recent years. Early 325s can be had for $2k (but need a LOT of work). I'd recommend paying $4k+ for 325s that have been owned by enthusiasts and are up to date on all the 'gotchas'. I'd also recommend against heavily modified ones. M3s generally trade for $8k to $18k (95 M3s to 99 M3 convertibles). But you *have* to watch out for those that are heavily driven or modified.

An E36 makes a great, cheap, BMW daily driver, so long as you know what you're getting into, and can stand the 'little' problems that crop up in a DIY manner. Otherwise expect to BOHICA.

-Chris

Chris-
Great post, as usual.

Can I ask what BMW is really "trouble free?" The only real question is if you love 'em enough to put up with the vagueries of ownership.

Take one example, cooling. I am not going to say an e36 is superior to an e28 in cooling, but I've now changed the radiator and waterpump for the third time in this car's lifespan. Is that much worse than an e36? I dunno. All cars need overhaul and repair as they get older, period. The only thing you want to avoid doing with any used car in general, and especially with a used BMW, is trying to keep up with these normal overhaul / service items while at the same time making up for years of neglect. So, once again, the key question to me is the maintenance history of the car you are looking to purchase.

A well maintained e36, on average, is likely to be no better or worse than an e28 with a similar history.

[BAVARIANUT]

What do you mean by Check Panel?

The Active Check Control display is located on the OBC Display which is under the climate head.

Both the 11 button and the 18 button OBCs have Check Control.

An S52 engine cover won't fit on a 325i.. the 325i uses an M50 (1992) or an M50TU (93-95 with VANOS). The oil cap is in a different location on the M50/S50 vs the M52/S52

You can use one off of an S50.

On an E36 the bvig things are interior, suspension and COOLING SYSTEM!

You live where it gets very hot. If she buys it, and unless you can PROVE it's been done recently, budget on a new cooling system for the car.

Period.

Unlike E28s E36s are prone to absolute cooling system failures... radiator necks snap off, expansion tanks blow, etc... do it all... Water Pump, Radiator, Aluminum T-Stat housing and T-Stat, Expansion tank, hoses, etc.

Watch the lower control arms, tie rods and rear trailing arm bushings for wear.

If it's a 5-speed in particular, watch the rear subframe mounts for cracking and damage.

Make sure the door panels aren't all puckered.

Avoid automatics... expensive to fix when they break.

I am an E36 Guru FWIW.

shit you to. I have a 94 325i that is currently in need of motor work and a manual trans. do you have any connects where you live for e36 parts?

[SD45T-2]

Dude, did you not see the cheap E30s on Craigslist? They're much better cars and don't have rust or bondo.

all the e30s here suck, and its not my car i told them e30 they dont want it, what do i do.

[L_N_Love]

If you need a new VANOS get this one >>>

Dr. Vanos

[wkohler]

Dude, did you not see the cheap E30s on Craigslist? They're much better cars and don't have rust or bondo.

all the e30s here suck, and its not my car i told them e30 they dont want it, what do i do.

Well you posted you were looking for an E28 or E30, so I thought that's what you were actually looking for. There are better looking E36s for not much more also.

[SD45T-2]

Dude, did you not see the cheap E30s on Craigslist? They're much better cars and don't have rust or bondo.

all the e30s here suck, and its not my car i told them e30 they dont want it, what do i do.

Well you posted you were looking for an E28 or E30, so I thought that's what you were actually looking for. There are better looking E36s for not much more also.

its alright looking but i wouldnt buy it. i expect $1200 to get it good its $2500 under wat the others are selling for.

[JohnH]

[If you stay on top of maintenance and a few key repair items, these cars will last a long time.-Chris

My point exactly. The newest of these cars are about eight to nine years old and have had several previous owners before you get your hands on them, and there's no way that the last one did any maintenance on it whatsoever.

I believe that some of the items listed as standard wear items are an absolute disgrace. These cars were built down to a price for corporate buyers not for private owners.

By the way, dont try to change the AC microfilter without taking an advanced course in yoga.

Now from all I have written you may think I don't like the E36. Not so. There are very few cars which are better to drive than a top notch E36. The problem is earning enough money to keep it on the road.

By the way, dont forget the rust problems around the rear arches and boot lid if you have a spoiler fitted.

[cgraff]

[If you stay on top of maintenance and a few key repair items, these cars will last a long time.-Chris

My point exactly. The newest of these cars are about eight to nine years old and have had several previous owners before you get your hands on them, and there's no way that the last one did any maintenance on it whatsoever.

Except mine! :-) 1994 owned from brand new. And all maintenance and repair up to date, with all original body panels and paint (and a few scars of dents and scratches to attest to it's daily driven status).

I believe that some of the items listed as standard wear items are an absolute disgrace. These cars were built down to a price for corporate buyers not for private owners.

By the way, dont try to change the AC microfilter without taking an advanced course in yoga.

You need to remove the glovebox...it makes it a ton easier. It takes me 30 minutes to do a microfilter that way.

-Chris

[JohnH]

Except mine! :-) 1994 owned from brand new. And all maintenance and repair up to date, with all original body panels and paint (and a few scars of dents and scratches to attest to it's daily driven status). -Chris

They are good cars, but you do need to keep on top of them. I do miss my old diesel (325tds), though usually after I have had a few drinks! The thing I really liked about them, was the steering, once you had the tyre pressures sorted out.

Talking of steering, steering racks, thats another 'service item' . Did anyone mention them already.

[Tammer in Philly]

Talking of steering, steering racks, thats another 'service item' . Did anyone mention them already.

I wouldn't call that a 'service item' any more than an E28 driveshaft. They do tend to weep oil, but they'll do that for a very long time without failure. Something that needs replacement at 120k-mile intervals is hardly a "weakness."

As for needing to stay on top of them, that's true of any car with sporting capabilities. You know why Chrysler owners never think their shocks go bad? It's because they go bad at 10k miles, but you can't tell ... they never really worked properly to start with, so the degradation is unnoticeable. BMWs, even E36s, are generally built well and built tight. With any car of that sort, the smallest flaws make themselves known through the steering and suspension. Door panels are no worse than E28 dashes (and cheaper/easier to replace); cooling problems are no worse than E28 fuel lines leaking, they rust less, they need no valve adjustments or distributor caps/rotors or timing belt services. The crank hubs don't self-destruct, the injectors don't get leaky and sticky at 100k miles, the shifters don't turn to mush every 3 years, the driveshaft bearings don't go bad every 100k miles, the taillamps don't corrode and throw lights, the trunks don't leak ... our beloved E28s aren't spring chickens and aren't exactly Toyotas in terms of day-to-day "drive it and forget it" reliability. But the rewards are there, as they are for the E36.

-tammer

[Wiseguy]

shit you to. I have a 94 325i that is currently in need of motor work and a manual trans. do you have any connects where you live for e36 parts?

LOL.. whatcha need? I probably have it.

[rlomba8204]

Talking of steering, steering racks, thats another 'service item' . Did anyone mention them already.

I wouldn't call that a 'service item' any more than an E28 driveshaft. They do tend to weep oil, but they'll do that for a very long time without failure. Something that needs replacement at 120k-mile intervals is hardly a "weakness."

As for needing to stay on top of them, that's true of any car with sporting capabilities. You know why Chrysler owners never think their shocks go bad? It's because they go bad at 10k miles, but you can't tell ... they never really worked properly to start with, so the degradation is unnoticeable. BMWs, even E36s, are generally built well and built tight. With any car of that sort, the smallest flaws make themselves known through the steering and suspension. Door panels are no worse than E28 dashes (and cheaper/easier to replace); cooling problems are no worse than E28 fuel lines leaking, they rust less, they need no valve adjustments or distributor caps/rotors or timing belt services. The crank hubs don't self-destruct, the injectors don't get leaky and sticky at 100k miles, the shifters don't turn to mush every 3 years, the driveshaft bearings don't go bad every 100k miles, the taillamps don't corrode and throw lights, the trunks don't leak ... our beloved E28s aren't spring chickens and aren't exactly Toyotas in terms of day-to-day "drive it and forget it" reliability. But the rewards are there, as they are for the E36.

-tammer

Tammer, I agree with everything you've said, but this reminds me of that post where I remember you saying that the only thing an e36 was good for was to strip out the interior and bolt in a cage or something.

Can I take a small amount of the credit for changing people's attitudes about such things? I think Wiseguy gets some credit too for sticking up for the e36 when everyone was down on them.

This is obviously all in good fun.

The good news here is that I am glad to see folks realizing that there are lots of great BMWs out there to enjoy, and that admiring the e28 needn't mean that you need to characterize the others as garbage, junk, etc. Life is too short, and there are too many cool cars to enjoy!

[T_C_D]

admiring the e28 needn't mean that you need to characterize the others as garbage, junk, etc. Life is too short, and there are too many cool cars to enjoy!

I think I have said this before but in a not so eloquent manner.

[C.J.]

Todd, I think you said something like it when I made the thread about buying Hoss. I love Ratty and all, but there are way too many cool cars our there and I'm too much of a gearhead to stay loyal to one make or model.

Dude, I hope your sister enjoys the e36.

[Tammer in Philly]

Tammer, I agree with everything you've said, but this reminds me of that post where I remember you saying that the only thing an e36 was good for was to strip out the interior and bolt in a cage or something. :laugh:

Weld in, Ray, weld in.

-tammer

[Tim in N FL]

If you need a new VANOS get this one >>>
Dr. Vanos

Iova,
Thanks for posting this link. Have you installed one of these on your car or know someone who has?

Wiseguy, cgraff, & other e36 gurus,
Are you familiar with Dr. Vanos' product?

Cheers,
Tim

[Wiseguy]

Never heard of Dr Vanos but I doubt I'd use it in a customer's car.

You have someone that claims to rebuild them for $265 when I can buy em from the dealer for around $300 my cost if memory serves.

Umm.. ok.

Dealer part: Known quantity.

Lowest mile car I have EVER seen with marble can sound: 115k.

Typical mileage for this $300 part to go: 150k.

My labor charge to change it: $240 plus parts and coolant.

[Andrew Elmore]

from bimmer forums, a lot of people have had great results from Dr. Vanos, I havnt had to use it yet on my M, but it gets great reviews from people who have used it. Bimmer forums is a great community when it comes to needing things regarding the e36. I'm on it all the time now.

As for the e36 in general, Ive loved mine so far. It was a huge jump in my opinion from the e28 (which I still love) and have had no problem with it. No major problems so far to speak of, just keep ontop of the maintainance as with any car and you'll love it.

[L_N_Love]

If you need a new VANOS get this one >>>
Dr. Vanos

Iova,
Thanks for posting this link. Have you installed one of these on your car or know someone who has?

Wiseguy, cgraff, & other e36 gurus,
Are you familiar with Dr. Vanos' product?

Cheers,
Tim

Tim,

No... I don't have that sound yet but if I ever do I will install one of the Dr. vanos units. As Andrew stated, it sounds like the way to go.

[Tammer in Philly]

Never heard of Dr Vanos but I doubt I'd use it in a customer's car.

You have someone that claims to rebuild them for $265 when I can buy em from the dealer for around $300 my cost if memory serves.

Umm.. ok.

Dealer part: Known quantity.

Lowest mile car I have EVER seen with marble can sound: 115k.

Typical mileage for this $300 part to go: 150k.

My labor charge to change it: $240 plus parts and coolant.

He's on the Track/Racing sub-forum at Bimmerforums. I have no experience with either the guy (he's in Texas) or the product, but I do know that a lot of E36 racers use his stuff. YM can and will V.

-tammer

[Tim in N FL]

Thanks fellas. My '95 M3 has 83k on the clock now (bought it with 77k in April) and the Vanos unit is still pretty quiet.

I'm having some sort of coil pack / knock sensor (4-6) thing happening lately. KS for cylinders 1-3 is new and was recently retorqued. My BavAuto sr300 code reader only displays a knock sensor fault (4-6). I am getting an intermittent CEL (briefly flashes on during shifts) and herky-jerky performance when engine is cold, especially. Thus far, this is the only "issue" I've experienced with the car. My local technician, who is a Tech Support guy to independent techs who are members of BIMRS says the code reader is only telling me part of the story. He wants to see the car asap. I would appreciate any input from you guys...TIA.

Overall, I love it as my DD and get lots of compliments, looks, and signs from drivers.

[tsmall07]

My girlfriends '98 M3 has been very reliable. She just had to have the water pump replaced and had the ABS computer go out. I don't know of any other problems its had, but her dad is fanatical about maintenance and it gets everything it needs before it even knows what it needs.

That said, I don't think you'll get any e36 for $2500 and have the same experience she's had. She and her dad got it for $17000 3 years ago and its in pristine condition.

Anyone else with an e36 have a brake light circuit check control go off all the time? Hers flashes the problem up almost daily, but there isn't anything wrong with the brake lights.