Anybody modifying the 524td?

[MatthewakaMatt]

Warning: Bench racing ahead

With all the people getting massive power from new diesel trucks, I was wondering if anybody has been scaling that down and applying it to old diesel cars. If a F350 can run a 10 second 1/4 mile, a car with half the weight and roughly half the displacement should be able to do something similar. Since you don't have to worry about detonation, you can run insanely high boost on a diesel. (I've seen several trucks at more than 60 psi.) As long as you can feed enough fuel to match the larger turbo / increased pressure it seems like you should be able to get decent power and gobs of torque out of a mid sized turbo diesel. Is there something I overlooked that makes it possible to do this on a new truck but not on an old car?

I'm not planning on doing anything about this in the near future. Mostly I'm curious if this is something I should look into for some future project.

[Skeen]

I'll be the first to say I don't know much about the 524td, but you must remember that new trucks have much more advanced technology in them. Variable area turbines have huge benefits, especially when trying to run big boost. Spool time is much faster and they are much more efficient at every rev range. I suspect the turbo on a 524td would be very inefficient at 2x (or more) the original boost level.

[HulkHanson]

I just purchased a 524td and would love to get a little more gety up out of it. My father has one of those crazy torque monster dodges. He was saying something about some outfit in Texas that lazer cut extra holes in the injectors for him?

Would love to get mine to smoke the tires like his truck. Any advice would be great.
Steve

[superj]

have you guys tried running a dodge cummins diesel turbo in place of the factory turbo? that is what all the e30 guys use to boost their 2.5l m20s. the td manifold is used as the exhaust manifold on the m20 with a dodge truck turbo with no trouble so it should work on the td also, correct?

[///ARINUTS...]

have you guys tried running a dodge cummins diesel turbo in place of the factory turbo? that is what all the e30 guys use to boost their 2.5l m20s. the td manifold is used as the exhaust manifold on the m20 with a dodge truck turbo with no trouble so it should work on the td also, correct?

Well, I'm one of those E30 / M20 Guys. I am using a modified 524td exhaust manifold. Currently I am using a super 60 T3 from a 1987-1988 5speed ford thunderbird Turbo coupe.

I also Have a Holset turbo from a dodge cummins diesel, but I can not bolt it to the 524td manifold, as it makes contact with the head(on the M20) ***BUT*** So did the smaller T3 that was stock on the 524td. Not as bad; I had used the original 524td turbocharger when I first turbocharged my M20. It was a very tight fit and the compressor of the turbo was in contact with the valve cover, even with a good amount of grinding. I have to make a different manifold for it.

What's My Point?????

The holset hx35 or h1c just might work on a m21.
(If anyone in the NYC area wants to swing by my place on a weekend for test fitting, I'm up for it)

But, even if the holset unit doesn't fit, a decent upgrade is the super 60 T3 from a 1987-1988 5speed ford thunderbird Turbo coupe. There are also a bunch of other possibilities.

I really want to see a HOT ROD 524td !!!!!
with a big turbo and big power running on chinese food waste oil!!!!

[BiodieselCleveland]

Duh. Can't figure out how to quote your post, but the Turbo Thunderbird unit in intriguing. Any dyno numbers or boost numbers from your car you could post?

[///ARINUTS...]

Duh. Can't figure out how to quote your post, but the Turbo Thunderbird unit in intriguing. Any dyno numbers or boost numbers from your car you could post?

No not really! Sorry about that

All I know is that the stock 524td T3 turbocharger was pretty small for my 2.7L 325i (super eta bottom end) It had very quick spool, I felt the boost come on at 2500 rpm, but it would dies out by 4500 RPM, the bigger T3 from the thunder bird was a little better suited, There was a bit more lag. I would feel the boost at around 3000 rpm, and it would hold it longer till about 5700rpm. I had the wastegate actuator set to 8psi. But this is somewhat irrelevent, as we are comparing different engines.

If you install a larger turbo, it will be slightly less responsive, a little more lag. but a boost controller might help that. the more expensive electronic ones are very good, but the cheap manual boost controls which are just check valves work pretty well.

Actually the addition of just a boost controller can yield a little more boost and slightly quicker spool, even with the stock turbocharger.

If you guys have not done any other mods to your 524td, I would start with a boost controller. then perhaps a free flow cold air intake. and then a bigger more free flowing exhaust.

[IPM]

Here's an idea. Swap in one of those ebay M20 turbo manifolds to improve flow! Should not be difficult to slot the M20 turbo manifold; it's been done to adapt the M21 to the M20. Wada U think? some on e30tech are using the ebay manifold.............I'm gonna buy one just to see what it looks like.

[doperide07]

Here's an idea. Swap in one of those ebay M20 turbo manifolds to improve flow! Should not be difficult to slot the M20 turbo manifold; it's been done to adapt the M21 to the M20. Wada U think?

First of all, this is a ridiculously old thread that shouldn't have been bumped. Second of all, those ebay manifold suck. So no.

[IPM]

Here's an idea. Swap in one of those ebay M20 turbo manifolds to improve flow! Should not be difficult to slot the M20 turbo manifold; it's been done to adapt the M21 to the M20. Wada U think?

First of all, this is a ridiculously old thread that shouldn't have been bumped. Second of all, those ebay manifold suck. So no.

Good Lord, who pissed you off to merit a reaction like that...........

[bibaboon]

[What's My Point?????

The holset hx35 or h1c just might work on a m21.
(If anyone in the NYC area wants to swing by my place on a weekend for test fitting, I'm up for it)


where u based in nyc..im in brooklyn and have a 84 euro 524
and an 85 that needs a head...
best
walter

[dieseldemon]

First off I think the hx35 which was used on all the 94 to 2002 Cummins engine would be a poor choice for the 524TD it has 12cm exhaust hsg you would have to pour a lot of fuel thru it to get any big boost on the other hand the 2001 auto trans Dodge had a 9cm exhaust hsg and would spool up a lot easier when I get my cyl head back from the machine shop I just might try that turbo on my 524TD The 524TD has a VE pump just like the early Dodge has and should put out a lot of fuel all you have to do is figure out how to keep from cracking the head

[DieselBoost]

hx-35 is typical charger in 524td/324td in finland.

what is that dodges hx-35...

-exhaust A/R

-turbine wheel size...(in millimeters)

our hx-35 chargers works very nice in these engines, little lag but not too big.

[southfaceguides]

Here's an idea. Swap in one of those ebay M20 turbo manifolds to improve flow! Should not be difficult to slot the M20 turbo manifold; it's been done to adapt the M21 to the M20. Wada U think?

First of all, this is a ridiculously old thread that shouldn't have been bumped. Second of all, those ebay manifold suck. So no.

FIRST OF ALL: if someone has a damn interest in it, it is NOT too old a thread. Second, I have TWO friends who have these manifolds. They are cheap and may not last long, but they DO flow ok, and both of the guys are getting very decent power (on m20's). I fabbed an adaptor to the m20 manifold, ala 666, but it was a lot of work.

[DieselBoost]

Here's an idea. Swap in one of those ebay M20 turbo manifolds to improve flow! Should not be difficult to slot the M20 turbo manifold; it's been done to adapt the M21 to the M20. Wada U think?

First of all, this is a ridiculously old thread that shouldn't have been bumped. Second of all, those ebay manifold suck. So no.

FIRST OF ALL: if someone has a damn interest in it, it is NOT too old a thread. Second, I have TWO friends who have these manifolds. They are cheap and may not last long, but they DO flow ok, and both of the guys are getting very decent power (on m20's). I fabbed an adaptor to the m20 manifold, ala 666, but it was a lot of work.

yep. correct.

those manifolds flows good, (it can see from picture, if you understand something about how engines works... or something about turbotech.

i believe that, the material is something china-stainless steel and thin too.

[IPM]

I like this thread. Thanx for U'r help. I want to cruise highway speeds at low rpm with more umphhh to avoid downshift to pull hills without slowing down. Let's get the spool even earlier than what ya'll have reported as the stock 2500 rpm range. The car has a nice hitch, not one that will pull the bumper off, so nice early torque good for towing too.

Wada U think of this:

1) Finish acquiring repair manuals for this engine. I already have the factory BMW manual, Bentley, the other after market, the BMW electronic manuals on CD, a clone of the GT1 system but not really useful for this car, and am acquiring the Ford manuals covering this engine.

2) Get the 524td I bought running well, do all basic maintenance. Pass inspection. Smile big

3) From pick and Pull get: an intercooler and plumbing, 528e eta limited slip differential (2.79?), electric draw type cooling fan.

4) Buy ebay turbo manifold.

5) figure out how to correctly deliver more fuel with the mechanical pump. probably only need whatever the simple tweaks are. make sure I get sufficient fuel to match the more O2 at lower RPM



intercooler - how about a 240 turbo volvo intercooler? - size of a radiator - can I put it behind the radiator (toward engine, hot side). I know I'll have to remove stock cooling fan but that's why also pull a draw thru electric to install.

Not interested in a cooler charge to permit more boost, but to get a denser charge more efficiently/sooner. Use the intercooler drop temp. and help deliver a denser charge at a lower pressure (remember PV=nRT) and then so more mass O2 delivered sooner in the "spool".

differential Purpose of lower numeric ratio differential to drop highway cruise rpm's more to like 1800 at 70 or so.

tubular ebay manifold hopefully the ebay manifold will aide early spool for the little stock turbo via better flow? the closer to low rpm cruise speed the better. Maybe delay ebay manifold installation until after intercooler and diff and see if I'm happy with results of those. I'm buying one of those ebay manifolds anyway 'cause it's cheap and neat looking. Could install on my M20 powered e28 or hang on the wall in shop as decoration if not used on M21. Heck maybe it can just serve as a pattern to make a heavier duty version?

Not interested in a cooler charge to permit more boost, but to get a denser charge more efficiently/sooner. Use the intercooler help deliver a denser charge at a lower pressure (remember PV=nRT) and then so more mass O2 delivered sooner in the "spool".

I've excluded a wastegate and blowoff valve in this senario due to my low rpm power range desired - is there really any benefit for them there? Are they not only useful for that big higher rpm power attempts?

STudying item 5, suggestions?

[altus22]

Not interested in a cooler charge to permit more boost, but to get a denser charge more efficiently/sooner. Use the intercooler drop temp. and help deliver a denser charge at a lower pressure (remember PV=nRT) and then so more mass O2 delivered sooner in the "spool".

Putting the intercooler on the engine side of the radiator will barely cool the charge on boost and will definitely heat the air off boost. Additionally I'll be really impressed if the 240 intercooler fits in front of the intercooler.

tubular ebay manifold hopefully the ebay manifold will aide early spool for the little stock turbo via better flow? the closer to low rpm cruise speed the better. Maybe delay ebay manifold installation until after intercooler and diff and see if I'm happy with results of those. I'm buying one of those ebay manifolds anyway 'cause it's cheap and neat looking. Could install on my M20 powered e28 or hang on the wall in shop as decoration if not used on M21. Heck maybe it can just serve as a pattern to make a heavier duty version?

I think that the ebay manifold will hold up longer on a diesel than a petrol car because the EGT will be lower. All else being equal, getting a ball bearing turbo might also give you a couple hundred RPM earlier spool.

Not interested in a cooler charge to permit more boost, but to get a denser charge more efficiently/sooner. Use the intercooler help deliver a denser charge at a lower pressure (remember PV=nRT) and then so more mass O2 delivered sooner in the "spool".

Okay, the pressure, volume, and R are constant, so you have to reduce T to increase n, the number of moles of air. That means you DO need a cooler charge to have a more dense charge.

I've excluded a wastegate and blowoff valve in this senario due to my low rpm power range desired - is there really any benefit for them there? Are they not only useful for that big higher rpm power attempts?

A blowoff valve won't do anything in the diesel because there is no throttle plate. Increasing the charge density will permit you to add more fuel, which increases the volume of exhaust gas which means your turbine and wastegate will need to be able to process more gas. I suggest you replace the EGR valve with a wastegate so you can flow the increased exhooassed volume.

[Brad D.]

I think the injection pump is the single biggest limiting factor on these cars. I believe there was someone on this board that had modded their pump but can't recall who.

[altus22]

According to the Europeans, the IP limit is beyond 20+psi. YMMV.

[smokey]

Hi I don't know if this helps but on my 524td I pulled the whole exhaust manifold and turbo I had a bigger turbo wheel made then had the whole thing cermanic coated in side and out. turbo and exhaust manifold. put new gaskets and run about 10 to 11 psi on boast. I put bigger injector in but don't know if i would do that again or not. It runs really good know I am selling it

[Msystem]

I put bigger injector in but don't know if i would do that again or not. It runs really good know I am selling it

First of all, this is a ridiculously old thread that shouldn't have been bumped. Second of all, those ebay manifold suck. So no.