The Germans are running their cars on vegetable oil!!!

[Duke]

I watched a show on the German station VOX yesterday that was about the installation of equipment to run diesel cars on vegetable oil/diesel mix. It was in German so I only understood about 50% of it. It looks to be a kit that adds an additional “oil” tank and other equipment that in turn mixes the vegetable oil with the diesel. I can only assume that the VO is much less expensive than the diesel. Looked to be very cool.

[the artisan]

Was it bio or this?http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/

[Skeen]

Yeah, those are available in the states too. I think Raj is running a pick up on it.

[altus22]

Many people do this in the states as well. In an old diesel system you can run waste vegetable oil (WVO), straight vegetable oil (SVO) and biodiesel.
WVO is just fryer grease from fast food resturants that has been filtered and heated to remove the water. SVO is any new vegetable oil you can get your hands on, and biodiesel is either of those which has undergone transesterification.
WVO and SVO gel at as high as 60 degrees F. Biodiesel has a slightly lower gel, or pour, point. It's at most 40 F. Because of this people in cool climates run 2 tanks, usually the OE tank and a fuel cell. One has normal diesel in it and the other has the alternative fuel. There is a switch in the car that the driver uses to switch between the fuels. The car is started and stopped on normal diesel and the alternative fuel is used the rest of the time. There are lines through the car to one of the tanks that carry engine coolant to heat the alternative fuel so that it liquifies quickly.

Here are some sites I've used to research this topic:
http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
http://www.biodiesel.org/

[BiodieselCleveland]

The veggie oil thing really works in a properly engineered system. (Shameless plug) I've written a 300 page, 120 photograph book on the subject. It's called "Sliding Home: A Complete Guide to Driving Your Diesel on Straight Vegetable Oil". Available at www.plantdrive.com and www.goldenfuelsystems.com among others.

My 524td daily driver isn't converted yet, but I have an E30 with a 5 speed and a turbodiesel from a 524td complete with SVO fueling system being finished up even as we speak. I'm running the 524td on commercial B20 biodiesel.

[Raj]

Yeah, those are available in the states too. I think Raj is running a pick up on it.

I have the greasecar kit on my Dodge. It actually runs smoother & quieter on SVO than on diesel. Smells better, too.

[rundatrack]

The veggie oil thing really works in a properly engineered system. (Shameless plug) I've written a 300 page, 120 photograph book on the subject. It's called "Sliding Home: A Complete Guide to Driving Your Diesel on Straight Vegetable Oil". Available at www.plantdrive.com and www.goldenfuelsystems.com among others.

My 524td daily driver isn't converted yet, but I have an E30 with a 5 speed and a turbodiesel from a 524td complete with SVO fueling system being finished up even as we speak. I'm running the 524td on commercial B20 biodiesel.

How muchs the gas mileage...

Is the conversion expensive?

[Raj]

mileage is the same as on diesel.

The parts required to to the conversion are relatively cheap except for the tank, which would likely have to be custom made for a 524td. The GC kit for my Dodge with 40 gallon diamond-plate tank cost about $1300.

Install isn't too difficult, but can be rather tedious. Took me and a buddy 3 days to install it thanks to the "open for interpretation" instructions supplied by Greasecar.

[kendogg1]

mileage is the same as on diesel.

The parts required to to the conversion are relatively cheap except for the tank, which would likely have to be custom made for a 524td. The GC kit for my Dodge with 40 gallon diamond-plate tank cost about $1300.

Install isn't too difficult, but can be rather tedious. Took me and a buddy 3 days to install it thanks to the "open for interpretation" instructions supplied by Greasecar.

For a complete kit, the greasecar kit seems to be the way to go. Did you buy or build yourself a filling station to filter the WVO? What did it cost you to put together a filling station at home for the veggie oil?

[BiodieselCleveland]

While the Greasecar kit is well-marketed and workable, I'd suggest you view www.plantdrive.com and www.goldenfuelsystems.com as well. I think their customer service is slightly ahead of Greasecar's and they have been around just as long as GC. Just me two cents.

[fission_chips]

I was once committed to installing grease systems in my 524tds. I have since backed-off because a good friend has recently developed a fantastic biodiesel reactor. Which means no modification of the car. However, "Frybrid" seems to be the most well-developed system out there. Just look at the work he's put into engineering his systems. One thing, though: he hasn't developed a system for the BMW. I'm not interested in maintaining an aftermarket system yet (a leak would really be lame) but his development strategy is to rent a car, pull the engine and design the system to custom specs. And it has computer-control to automatically purge the system so you don't get congealing in your fuel lines/engine. I'd love to have one of these but I'm going to start with making biodiesel since it doesn't preclude doing this install at a later date. Maybe enough of us could convince Frybrid to design a 524td-specific system (when he's done converting over the US Army, uggh.) Have a look at frybrid dot com and see what you think! He's the man with the Benz crowd.

Mike
2X 524tds

[BiodieselCleveland]

I installed a Frybrid system into a 524td. Contact me privately if you'd like feedback.

[Raj]

For a complete kit, the greasecar kit seems to be the way to go. Did you buy or build yourself a filling station to filter the WVO? What did it cost you to put together a filling station at home for the veggie oil?

Haven't built any kind of setup for wvo. I have run wvo a few times using a simple 5 micron sock filter, bucket, & funnel to filter it. For the most part, I have been using fresh soybean oil from Costco, which is still cheaper than diesel (2.75/gal vs 3.25 for diesel).

As BC mentioned, there are better kits than GC out there, but they are considerably more expensive, at least they were for my Dodge w/tank. Greasel, Frybrid, and Veg Powered systems come to mind, but they were all in excess of $2k while my GC kit w/40 gallon tank was $1300 shipped. That and GC was by far the most helpful over the phone.

I did not check out the two companies mentioned by BC.

I was once committed to installing grease systems in my 524tds. I have since backed-off because a good friend has recently developed a fantastic biodiesel reactor. Which means no modification of the car.

Not necessarily true...biodiesel requires you to replace all rubber fuel lines & seals with viton as the bio will eat it up. Most newer diesels are already bio compatible from the factory, but I don't think a 524td is.

I may invest in a biodiesel setup if I'm able to find my father a reasonably-priced Touareg V10 tdi to compliment my Dodge and mom's E320 cdi.

[fission_chips]

OK. . . This raises a question: The PO of my 524td claims to have had to replace ALL seals in 1992 when the newer low-sulfur (low-lubrication) diesel was put on the market. I have wondered the same about biodiesel. Is there a need to do this replacement again when planning on running biodiesel? My friend who makes the bio (in HUGE batches) has two MBs and he runs bio exclusively and has never mentioned seal replacement. He's never had a failure. I'll speak with him on this. . . .

[BiodieselCleveland]

I can offer my own experience and the prevailing hearsay on the subject.

Generally, the solvent effect of biodiesel is something to consider. IF you're running a lower blend of biodiesel (e.g. B5, B10, or even B20), the effect on rubber hoses and seals is much less pronounced. However, if you're running 100% biodiesel, the solvent effect is accelerated and it's best to have viton in as many places as possible.

Apparently, it's hard to predict how many miles is the point where an owner might start having trouble due to biodiesel's solvent effect and dislike for Buna-N stuff. I've hear folks say 50K-100K miles can be expected on B20 before trouble happens. But this is strictly hearsay. Never saw any quantitative studies on it.

I've run about 12,000 miles on B20 in my 524td with no detectible ill effects on seals, etc. Really, it's a case by case basis though. Your experience may vary;) I've been given to understand that most all rebuild kits for IP's include viton seals as a matter of course now. So if some seal replacing has been done, it's likely been done with a biodiesel compatible material.