(FS) Rare 1985 Euro M5 Car Located in Toronto, CA

Euro-M5 · Post by **Euro-M5** » Mar 17, 2006 11:19 AM

http://www.euromcars.com/85lsm5/

Click on the Above Link for more Photos.
Please Email with Serious Inquiries "bmwm5@cox.net"

Tim in N FL · Post by **Tim in N FL** » Mar 17, 2006 12:08 PM

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Mar 17, 2006 12:27 PM

The M5 does not have the standard leather covered interior components. The car is suspect.

BKCowGod3 · Post by **BKCowGod3** » Mar 17, 2006 12:37 PM

did they do the leather on the '85, or was that only on the later M5s?

Euro-M5 · Post by **Euro-M5** » Mar 17, 2006 12:45 PM

This is an Euro M5 (286HP High Comp Motor, Non Catalyst same as M635csi), Leather, A/C etc.were all optional on Euro cars. Don't get confused with the Gucci US/Canadian 1988 M5 which had all the options.

http://bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=7

Above Link will provide you all the info about Euro E28 M5.

shifty · Post by **shifty** » Mar 17, 2006 1:23 PM

I remember seeing this car posted for sale on this forum a few months back. Nice car! Maybe someone will eventually buy it.

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Mar 17, 2006 2:28 PM

It would be nice to see a VIN for this M5. If I was in the market my first concern would be, is the car in the US, has it been Federalized, and has it been released by DOT/EPA for use on US roads. If none of this has been done the car is a non-driver. Plan on spending an additional $7k-$10k in addition to the acquisition costs for Federalization if it hasn't been done.

Here's what I can tell about the car from looking strictly at the pics. Definately a M88/3 engine, non-factory A/C, can't see any evidence of an aftermarket A/C. Heated power sportseats, digital clock in lieu of an OBC. The interior appears to be standard leather, not Buffalo. I believe this is an earlier M5, the shifter knob only has the ///M without the shift pattern. The early Euro M5s had a decal of the shift pattern mounted on the ashtray lid, the decal is missing on this particular M5. IMO this M5 is very close to being a baselevel car.

About the info on the BMW M Registry. Although most of it is correct there are some errors.

1) The OBC wasn't standard in the early M5s, my Euro M5 has a digital clock in the place of the OBC. The cable harnesses for the OBC were never been installed in my M5.

2) Early Euro M5s have the same toolbox as the standard 535i, which is light gray in color.

3) Early German market M5s do not have the ///M5 doorsills. The only positive way to indentify an early German market M5 was by looking for the front spoiler, the anthrazite colored headliner, the badging on the grill and trunk deck, and the ///M sash on the Tach without a mileage meter. Otherwise the Euro M5s were almost indistinguishable from a 520i.

HTH

Rich

Post by **Jeremy** » Mar 17, 2006 5:21 PM

Are those throwing star covers painted to match the car? Interesting look if so, not sure if I like it or not.

Looks to be a pretty nice car if the issues Rich brings up can be resolved.

Jeremy

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Mar 17, 2006 5:31 PM

Jeremy wrote:Are those throwing star covers painted to match the car? Interesting look if so, not sure if I like it or not.

Looks to be a pretty nice car if the issues Rich brings up can be resolved.

Jeremy

Although I didn't mention it. The Shadowline window trim for the front/rear is incorrect, it should all be standard chrome "Brown" if original - LOL. The taillights should be standard E28 with chrome trim. Also I see the kidneys have been painted black and there are clear turns in the front and rear taillamps. Also note the engine underscreen is missing. These are all nitpicking items and are easily corrected if someone wants to bring the car back to stock configuration.

Rich

Tim in N FL · Post by **Tim in N FL** » Mar 17, 2006 7:27 PM

I suppose the VIN is the real clincher in verifying the authenticity of this car, eh?

Here is a link to one International M5 registry (not just Euro market) which includes Rich Euro M5's car. Incidentally, Rich's Euro M5 is one of the lowest production #s I've seen...

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/models.php?id=20

Are there other "Euro M5 Registries" besides this one? Perhaps it is worth searching on
www.m5board.com or other ///M sites just for fun. Here's a German ///M board:
http://www.m-forum.de/

Now, what about that white/black M535i that is already federalized and living in California?

Cheers,
Tim

Euro-M5 · Post by **Euro-M5** » Mar 17, 2006 7:29 PM

Thanks for the criticism / bashing about the car, I am not sure how much experience everyone who comments have with these cars, I have owned Euro / US E28 cars (M535i, M5, 535i, 528i etc) since 1986 and very familiar with them. Main purpose of the listing was to see if anyone is seriously interested in buying such a rare collectable car on the E28 Board itself. So far, not a single email, thus tells me that it is not intended for the dreamers or tire kickers.

Here’s how the car was when I acquired it about a year ago in Germany, it came with the original TRX Wheels as well as the 16” REMOTEC Wheels (16x9” Rear); they are all listed on the German Title as well.

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Mar 18, 2006 12:27 AM

Euro-M5 wrote:Thanks for the criticism / bashing about the car, I am not sure how much experience everyone who comments have with these cars, I have owned Euro / US E28 cars (M535i, M5, 535i, 528i etc) since 1986 and very familiar with them. Main purpose of the listing was to see if anyone is seriously interested in buying such a rare collectable car on the E28 Board itself.

The primary issue you have here is the lack of transparency. Post the VIN and answer the most important question, has the car been Federalized and does it have DOT/EPA paperwork. What about a California BAR sticker ??

Without this paperwork the car is worth much less to most on this forum. I don't know of anyone here that's a collector that buys cars to stick in a warehouse. You're on an enthusiest forum which means the car must be LEGALLY drivable on US roadways.

Regarding knowledge of the Euro M5, I happen to have 01018034 sitting in my garage at the moment. As "Tim in N FL" mentions, my particular Euro M5 is the lowest SN (earliest build) in the US. Maybe your example is older. Without a VIN we have no way of knowing.

Rich

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Mar 18, 2006 12:30 AM

Saliya,

Don't be so defensive. I spent five years in Germany starting in 1998. I saw Ebay.de start and grow. I also saw the amount of crooks grow on ebay too.

In my opinion, it is worse in Germany than it is here. An A-hole in Germany would take a E28 518 and stick a M88 in it, transfer the M interior stuff along with the VIN plate and walla, they would try to sell it as a M5. You see, the 1985 M5 is the easiest to do this with. In 1985 there were not any VIN stickers on all of the body panels. You simple had to transfer a VIN plate and some VINs via cutting and welding and you could EASILY take a totaled M5 and recreate it. This is what could have been done with your car. Your car has no M5 leather interior items amongst other things and that makes the car suspect.

I do know where a hidden VIN plate is but you would have to do some digging to get to it. But because you are such an expert, I'm sure you know where it is.

Don't be harsh on us, it’s a harsh world with lots of criminals in Germany.

Euro-M5 · Post by **Euro-M5** » Mar 18, 2006 2:26 AM

This is the last reply I am posting about this car, and this post, you guys are bunch of #$#%$^%*^(*

If any of you don’t know, I own one of each Generation Euro M5 (E28, E34 3.6, E34 3.8 2 of them) and I was simply posting the car For Sale to see if any interest can be generated in the forum so it can be sold to a pure Enthusiast. Instead it has become a pissing match without provocation with few guys for no apparent reason.

Are any of you Guys serious about buying this car or just like to @#$#%$^$&%& about it?????

By the way the VIN falls between Beaver M5 1018034 & Wilby M5 1018054 (info extracted from the M Registry) and it is not a Salvage Titled Car like some of the other Euro E28 M5s here in the US It is an original condition unmolested Euro E28 M5 which has not been butchered by EPA /DOT Conversion. That’s why I am offering to sell to only a Canadian buyer so it can remain in its original form. I have imported many Euro BMW and Mercedes since 1985 and you don’t need to preach to me about the legitimacy about these cars or how / what to check. I visit Germany at least twice a year to consolidate all my parts / cars and to find rare unique stuff, also to visit my friends & relatives and drive the Nurburgring Track.

Please be professional about this put this post to rest and find another subject to hack, I regeret posting about the car in this Amatuer forum…

So long…..

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Mar 18, 2006 8:16 AM

So what is the VIN? Why won't you post it? Saliya, you are acting like a shady used car salesman.

BTW - I was not preaching. Get some thicker skin you wuss.

Awwwwwwwwwwwww......don't let the door hit you.

T_C_D · Post by **T_C_D** » Mar 18, 2006 9:34 AM

I spoke to this guy a few months ago about the white M535i. He treated me the same way. I wonder how he sells any cars? He is just an arrogant prick.
Todd

Tammer in Philly · Post by **Tammer in Philly** » Mar 18, 2006 10:19 AM

Saliya,

Some things to keep in mind:
1) Most people here know a whole lot about these cars, even <gasp> the ones they don't own. And we're interested in rare/interesting/exciting cars, and even if we're not buying we will want to know what's out there, what it sells for, who buys it, etc. ... 'cause we're just crazy like that.

2) I speak for myself here, but I am sure this is true of others--anyone who wants to buy any car, but specifically any BMW, and even more specifically any older BMW comes to me and has me find it for them. I was approached recently by a guy who wants an E24 M6, and I've had my eye out for that. So there are lots of potential shoppers and making as much info known about the car as possible can only help you.

3) Any time someone selling something uses the "arrogance" tactic, as in "you're not good enough to buy my car," I know automatically that that person is a scammer and is totally full of shit. I don't care what you own, most of the stuff on your site looks like formerly nice cars that were used hard, put up wet and allowed to fester. This car is probably a dog anyway, since you've given us no useful information that's the assumption we'll make and move on. Oh, and your "as I received it" pics show the car in two different configurations, and I'm not just referring to the wheels. At any rate an M88 motor is too valuable to risk purchasing one from a ripoff artist who isn't upfront about his goods.

-tammer

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Mar 18, 2006 11:26 AM

Euro-M5 wrote: By the way the VIN falls between Beaver M5 1018034 & Wilby M5 1018054 (info extracted from the M Registry) and it is not a Salvage Titled Car like some of the other Euro E28 M5s here in the US It is an original condition unmolested Euro E28 M5 which has not been butchered by EPA /DOT Conversion.

Yes, my M5 has a salvage title in Arkansas. So what, it's a Euro car and was involved in an accident. Insurance claim was probably based on a low ball value for the car. So the owner took the money and bought back salvage and replaced the front radiator support, hood, and right fender with BMW replacement parts. In addition he replaced all the stainless bright work around the roof gutters and door windows. Plus a fresh respray of Diamond Schwartz. Sure there are a few flaws that need attention, but once corrected I have a rust free southern states Euro M5 that's been in the US since NEW.

I'll agree that some federalization jobs are much worse than others. The case of my M5, no side markers were installed on the body sheet metal. The door reinforcements were bolted in and were finished with an OE level of workmanship. The reinforcements behind the bumpers were installed in a manner that didn't involve cutting of sheet metal, or welding to the body. These reinforcements were removed with the replacement of the front / rear bumpers with the NOS Euro bumers from my deceased 533i. All I need to do to my Euro M5 to have it in original factory spec is install the Metric M5 speedo, install TRX wheels, remove the evaporative purge, and replace the catalytic convertors with the Euro front muffler/resonator.

Rich

BKCowGod3 · Post by **BKCowGod3** » Mar 19, 2006 8:28 PM

Lesse now... I'm an amateur because I don't buy and sell cars for a living? Boy am I hurt.

I love when sleazoids come on the board, don't introduce themselves, then immediately try to sell a car for a vastly inflated price.

Wait - why am I talking, he solved the problem for us by leaving.

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Mar 19, 2006 10:42 PM

Please be professional about this put this post to rest and find another subject to hack, I regeret posting about the car in this Amatuer forum…

Saliya:

Please don't regret posting this car on the forum!!! There are many of us who are interested in euro M5s and the availability of them. I personally don't see what you did wrong here. I read your original post a few days ago and I felt it was appropriate. You had asked any one that was interested in the car to please PM you.

FWIW, I feel that this is the most effective way to sell things on this forum and I urge the rest of the folks here to not publically air their frustrations and/or speculations about this car. To me, it's very clear.....If you have interest in purchasing or obtaining this car, please respect the gentleman that requested the PM.

Did anyone ever think for a minute that the seller might want whomever was interested in the car to have some privacy about it?

IMHO, this group should be ashamed of yourselves for acting as you did.

It's simple, if you want to buy the car or have the means to do so.....PM this guy and find out what you need to about it...If it is what you want and can afford and it all checks out for you and the price is what you are willing to spend....Buy it. If not.... STFU and look at the pictures like I did.

This kind of shit is not what this board is for. We are here to help each other, help problem solve, sell parts, see other cars across the country that our fellow enthusiasts own, etc. it is NOT for keyboard bullies that want to slay someone because they won't give up their lunch money!!! I urge you all good people that posted here (and I mean that sincerely) to respect this person's wishes and either apologize to him or delete your posts.

Think about it, we are all grown ups here so we should act like it!

BKCowGod3 · Post by **BKCowGod3** » Mar 19, 2006 10:56 PM

Ron - I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree. He posted the sale ad, one person mentioned the interior and was then corrected. Another asked for the VIN and one mentioned shadowline. The seller then got snitty without explaining why he did not want to give the vin. There was a second request for the VIN. He acted better than everybody else, and it was only at this point that people started to get disrespectful.

Please let me know if this is not how you see it, because I believe we have had problems with differing interpretations in the past and I do not mean to be rude at all.

Adam W in MN · Post by **Adam W in MN** » Mar 19, 2006 11:13 PM

I would like to come to Saliya's defense in this matter since I have met him and I have (indirectly) received parts from him (the chip in my 3.8 liter E34 M5). Also Saliya and I email every so often and I feel as if I can defend him here. I have also been really looking forward to someone purchasing this car once he got it stateside because I think it's killer looking.

I think that this thread quickly escalated out of control but the flames were fed by a few that Ron Perry so aptly named "keyboard bullies". There's one on mye28 in particular who thankfully has stayed away from this thread so far or it would really be out of control by now! Anyway, Rich I think posted some meaningful comments and questions and I'm not sure why Saliya hasn't answered everything. Saliya, I have to say, the "serious inquiries only" tagline is a pet peeve of mine. There are going to be tirekickers out there and with a car like this, people will want to oggle the pictures and ask questions. It only helps your cause by generating interest. Of course not many on this board know you from meeting you like Ron Perry and I do so that doesn't help your case. I think patiently answering questions is the best way to go on deals like this. There's no doubt that you are a euro M-car nut and afficianado (at least to me) so why not indulge people with some of your experience? Obviously Rich is able to talk the talk since he is also a euro E28 M5 owner.

I think some of the right, potential owners for your car are here on this board or possibly lurking so I wouldn't give up on it yet. Unfortunately responding to the keyboard jockies that are trying to incite more conflict only encourages them. I know the same happened with me on a thread a while back so I just started ignoring the SOB. Stick to your guns and try not to get too ruffled by it. This board has a pretty defined clique that you can find yourself on the opposite end of messages from, pretty darned quick.

Adam Wilson
www.e12m535i.com

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Mar 19, 2006 11:21 PM

Yes, I do disagree. If you read the original post, he asked that all inquiries be sent to him via PM. Obviously it didn't happen that way and I don't really blame the guy for getting upset. Every post that followed his was purely speculative and nit picky about the car.

It's not every day that one of these "specimens" come our way and I don't think that there are many left in the world that are worth even looking at. I think the guy was doing us a favor by giving the entusiasts here an opportunity to buy something that most of us lust over and that's the way we want to treat him?

In the three years that I have been involved with this forum, this is only the third euro M5 that we have been privy to and I appreciate the fact that someone would let us know about it. I don't think he was greeted that way and I can't really blame him for getting a little pissy. If anyone wanted to know more about the car, they could PM him, right?

Maybe, just maybe he will add the car to the ///M registry so everyone can end the speculation about it's heritage. If he doesn't do it, I couldn't blame him.

BKCowGod3 · Post by **BKCowGod3** » Mar 19, 2006 11:25 PM

Okay, I didn't notice the part about private inquiries. I will retreat to my partial argument that anybody who is serious about selling a car has to deal with a certain amount of tire-kicking. I'm not saying he's serious about selling - just making an observance based on my relatively limited experience with selling cars.

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Mar 19, 2006 11:52 PM

Point well taken about the tire kicking.

Wiseguy · Post by **Wiseguy** » Mar 20, 2006 3:58 AM

I'm suspect as well. I'd love to know more about the car, accusing people of being tirekickers and dreamers is no way to sell cars kiddo.

When I posted a Euro car that I had for sale some time back (1990 735i) I listed VIN, full description, location, etc.

Guess what? I sold it quickly.

Several days later.... No price, no VIN, no word on where the car is specifically located, etc. All I see are some pics of the car in Europe. That's it. Damn skippy people are going to be suspicious. Do you only take Western Union and are you going to Fedex me the car on approval after I send you a $1,000 deposit?

Euro-M5 · Post by **Euro-M5** » Mar 21, 2006 3:02 PM

If any of you real Buyers want to check out the car (like the private emails I already received), I will be in Toronto next week finalizing the paperwork with my importer / Car Dealer who will conduct the sale on my behalf and register / title the Cars in Toronto. I also have a 1989 Euro E34 M5 that was imported along with this Euro E28 M5. If you would like to speculate and waste your time again, go for it. LOL...

BKCowGod3 · Post by **BKCowGod3** » Mar 21, 2006 3:16 PM

BKCowGod3 wrote:anybody who is serious about selling a car has to deal with a certain amount of tire-kicking.

Sal - I work in retail, so I do have some experience with this. It's completely your choice of course, but do me a favor and consider this for me: If you are looking to buy something, do you buy from the asshole who makes fun of your friends and colleagues or do you buy from the helpful, supportive enthusiast who cares about more than just making some money and refuses to tell anybody anything in public?

I'll give you a hint - When I spray my customers with windex, they generally don't buy as much.

Euro-M5 · Post by **Euro-M5** » Mar 21, 2006 3:34 PM

I have sold many Rare BMW, Porsches and Mercedes for more than 20 years and 99% of the time through word of mouth and through my private contacts. Almost all of the buyers did not like disseminating information out in the public. That's why on my initial posting, I humbly requested to inquire in private and provided my email, only few people respected that, everyone else started to speculate and negate all my comments. That was quite frankly amateur behavior hence I didn’t want to aggravate my self and decided to sit back and laugh at it. I don't think I need to apologize to anyone since I repeatedly stated to contact me privately if you are serious about acquiring this car.

I apologize if I unintentionally caused any grief to anyone on the forum...

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Mar 21, 2006 9:14 PM

Saliya

Good luck selling your 518 that has been converted in to a "rare" M5. I just hope no one here buys it because once it is seen by several board members that are more knowledgeable than you on E28s (not too hard) it will be identified as a fake. Interesting how you do not want to know where the hidden VIN plate is, it will confirm that you paid way too much for the pseudo M5. You are just looking to pass on your mistake to an innocent enthusiast. This is the conduct of a slimy used car salesman.

Then again, it may be a real M5, due to your lack of cooperation, we will never know.

For you that think I am a “keyboard bully”, I am when it comes to seeing something fishy and wanting to protect my fellow E28 enthusiasts.

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

(FS) Rare 1985 Euro M5 Car Located in Toronto, CA

(FS) Rare 1985 Euro M5 Car Located in Toronto, CA