N52s +

[L_N_Love]

The newer BMW engines run so much better than the relics from the 80's. More hp and torque earlier.

(flame suit on)

[Ripton]

IT'S A TRAP.

[Mike W.]

Yeah the engines are better, but I don't like driving the cars as well.

Lets see, the M30 came out in '68, the N52, '04. 36 years of tech in between. Going the other way, 36 years before the M30, we're back in 1932. Looks like those were ~30HP. Not even counting WWII delaying development for a time, I think the M30 was pretty good for it's time.

[austin8753]

i daily drive a '11 328xi wagon, and to my surprise, i've grown to really like it.

when i bought the car, it had 154k and had timing chain failure, which is fairly common with these. the shop the PO took it to tried selling them an engine replacement to the tune of $10k, which the PO promptly declined and then sold the car to me.

not knowing much about N52s, i bought a replacement engine from LKQ, which showed up as a fucking paperweight - looked like someone dropped it on the cylinder head, which was a nice surprise. since my engine was already out of the car, i figured i would see about putting it on the engine stand and repairing it. talked to a friend of mine, a former tech at one of our local dealers, who informed me that the N52 is a non-interference engine, and suggested that i retime it and see if it held compression and leak down. it did.

since it was out of the car, i did any and all of the major services these engines are known for...
-complete and total cooling system replacement (radiator, water pump, thermostat, exp tank, any/all plastic/rubber cooling hoses/pipes)
-oil pan gasket
-timing chain service, front and rear oil seals, etc
-valve cover assembly (the CCV is built in to the valve cover....great idea, guys), along with the cam phaser solenoids and the eccentric shaft sensor, coil packs, spark plugs
-oil filter housing gasket
-differential reseal/axle seals
-engine mounts

i've put 6k miles on it since October and it's been excellent. these cars get a bad rap from being neglected, but just like anything, you get out of it what you put into it. i'll admit i was a pretty big hater, prior to owning one. compared to the older chassis that we all know and love, they are not nearly as user friendly, but once you get past the learning curve, it's not that bad. i did all the major maintenance items since the engine was out and was infinitely easier to deal with at that time. it's a great daily driver. makes plenty of power, and the low end torque is superb. it lacks the soul that the older cars have, but frankly, i love having a car that i have zero interest in modifying or doing anything besides maintenance.

[Mike W.]

Yeah the engines are better, but I don't like driving the cars as well.

Lets see, the M30 came out in '68, the N52, '04. 36 years of tech in between. Going the other way, 36 years before the M30, we're back in 1932. Looks like those were ~30HP. Not even counting WWII delaying development for a time, I think the M30 was pretty good for it's time.

Expanding a bit, while the 303 was a 6 cylinder engine, it was only 1178 CCs. The first M30 was a nominal 2500 and the N52 at 2500 also. Extrapolating the numbers a bit we get,

1933 63HP (specific power per CC theoretical, not actual since it was 1178CCs)
1968 150HP A 2.4 bump in specific power output over 26 years earlier. What became the Bavaria. A HP a cubic inch, net. Impressive in anything in the 60s, let alone a family sedan, let alone one with as long lived an engine as even early M30s were.
2004 215HP A 1.4 bump over the M30. Good, but not near the previous generational improvement. True, with Vanos etc, the torque curve is likely fatter and feels like more.

A 1933 mechanic would know how to work on a early M30. Carbs, even if they were dual, check. Points ignition, check, even if a dual diaphragm distributor would have seemed odd. A late Motronic M30, less so. But a 1968 mechanic would look at a N52 and scratch his head. Sure they would have heard of FI in '68, maybe even seen it on VWs or MB, but the rest of it? Motronic, Valvetronic? WTF!

None of which really makes any difference, except maybe M30s were really advanced for their time. Modern cars? If they would just do what I tell them to do, especially on heating/cooling/Ventilation, I could deal with them a lot better. But they're way too automatic, not counting transmissions. Yeah, they last longer, but I'm at the point where I'm not sure that's a good thing. As I think about it, I think it's the cars I don't like, the engines are OK. At least some.

[L_N_Love]

IT'S A TRAP.

Yes... as always! Its a BMW.

[L_N_Love]

i daily drive a '11 328xi wagon, and to my surprise, i've grown to really like it.

when i bought the car, it had 154k and had timing chain failure, which is fairly common with these. the shop the PO took it to tried selling them an engine replacement to the tune of $10k, which the PO promptly declined and then sold the car to me.

not knowing much about N52s, i bought a replacement engine from LKQ, which showed up as a fucking paperweight - looked like someone dropped it on the cylinder head, which was a nice surprise. since my engine was already out of the car, i figured i would see about putting it on the engine stand and repairing it. talked to a friend of mine, a former tech at one of our local dealers, who informed me that the N52 is a non-interference engine, and suggested that i retime it and see if it held compression and leak down. it did.

since it was out of the car, i did any and all of the major services these engines are known for...
-complete and total cooling system replacement (radiator, water pump, thermostat, exp tank, any/all plastic/rubber cooling hoses/pipes)
-oil pan gasket
-timing chain service, front and rear oil seals, etc
-valve cover assembly (the CCV is built in to the valve cover....great idea, guys), along with the cam phaser solenoids and the eccentric shaft sensor, coil packs, spark plugs
-oil filter housing gasket
-differential reseal/axle seals
-engine mounts

i've put 6k miles on it since October and it's been excellent. these cars get a bad rap from being neglected, but just like anything, you get out of it what you put into it. i'll admit i was a pretty big hater, prior to owning one. compared to the older chassis that we all know and love, they are not nearly as user friendly, but once you get past the learning curve, it's not that bad. i did all the major maintenance items since the engine was out and was infinitely easier to deal with at that time. it's a great daily driver. makes plenty of power, and the low end torque is superb. it lacks the soul that the older cars have, but frankly, i love having a car that i have zero interest in modifying or doing anything besides maintenance.

I didn't like mine much at first either. I hate all of the system errors that pop up. Hate that dong sound. Once I got all of the deferred maintenance sorted out I really started to enjoy it. The engine has 216K but still purrs like a sewing machine. It is faster and as nimble as my former 95 E36 M3.

[krhodes1]

I have two these days, well technically I have an N52 in my 328i wagon and an N51 (SULEV version, lower compression but three stage intake and same power ratings) in my 128i convertible. Both 2011s with 51K and 57K respectively. Delightful cars both. I'd love to have a really nice 535i again to go with them, but I would not daily drive an e28 at this point.

My stepfather owned an '83 528e from new for 20 years, so I can provide some comparison, having owned my 328i from new. Similar miles put on in the first 10 years, ~50K. I have all the service records for the 528e from new. In the first years under warranty, it had oil leaks and needed a new transmission (3spd autotragic). And of course it had tons of required maintenance at his cost. My 328i needed a seat relay replaced under warranty. The 528e of course needed timing belt and water pump service, had more transmission issues, and sundry other things. Since the warranty ran out, my 328i has needed a battery and fluid changes. Battery at nine years old. And of course the new car is both massively faster and more fuel efficient, though it has the advantage of having a proper 3-pedal transmission. RWD too. And much safer to crash, not that I really care about that much (I drive a Spitfire all summer).

The good old days weren't actually that good. The old cars are charming, but at this point the e9X\e8x seem pretty charming compared to the pig-snout current cars. Still, I would love to have a nice old one to love and cherish and take out on sunny Sundays or when I just feel like going for a drive for the heck of it.

[garageboy]

I have two these days, well technically I have an N52 in my 328i wagon and an N51 (SULEV version, lower compression but three stage intake and same power ratings) in my 128i convertible. Both 2011s with 51K and 57K respectively. Delightful cars both. I'd love to have a really nice 535i again to go with them, but I would not daily drive an e28 at this point.

Compelling comparison, I have to admit... and you didn't even mention that a 528e in tip-top mechanical condition, spews more pollution on that sunny Sunday than your modern, SULEV motor spews in a month! The advances in pollution control cannot be underestimated -- it's orders of magnitude better today.

Yet I daily drive my E28 (except during the salty winter days when it stays locked up inside) because it is so much goddamned fun. I am religious about maintenance, which allows it to be a very reliable daily driver. I couldn't imagine it any other way. But your points are valid. The newer cars are even more reliable, statistically, as long as they're not neglected.

The repair of the newer cars can be prohibitively expensive. Now you can buy an ECU for your E28 for 50 bucks. Try that on an f10. I replaced my E28's sub-standard lights with Hella H4 replacements last year. But I recently replaced my E39's worn out, pitted, with broken adjusters, Xenon fixtures at a discounted dealer cost of $1000 apiece. Sure, the light is superior to the E28s, but that's quite a financial commitment to a 20-year-old car. And don't even think of pricing your headlight fixtures on the 328 or 128. There is that to consider.

[krhodes1]

I have two these days, well technically I have an N52 in my 328i wagon and an N51 (SULEV version, lower compression but three stage intake and same power ratings) in my 128i convertible. Both 2011s with 51K and 57K respectively. Delightful cars both. I'd love to have a really nice 535i again to go with them, but I would not daily drive an e28 at this point.

Compelling comparison, I have to admit... and you didn't even mention that a 528e in tip-top mechanical condition, spews more pollution on that sunny Sunday than your modern, SULEV motor spews in a month! The advances in pollution control cannot be underestimated -- it's orders of magnitude better today.

Yet I daily drive my E28 (except during the salty winter days when it stays locked up inside) because it is so much goddamned fun. I am religious about maintenance, which allows it to be a very reliable daily driver. I couldn't imagine it any other way. But your points are valid. The newer cars are even more reliable, statistically, as long as they're not neglected.

The repair of the newer cars can be prohibitively expensive. Now you can buy an ECU for your E28 for 50 bucks. Try that on an f10. I replaced my E28's sub-standard lights with Hella H4 replacements last year. But I recently replaced my E39's worn out, pitted, with broken adjusters, Xenon fixtures at a discounted dealer cost of $1000 apiece. Sure, the light is superior to the E28s, but that's quite a financial commitment to a 20-year-old car. And don't even think of pricing your headlight fixtures on the 328 or 128. There is that to consider.

They may be more expensive to fix, but needing *massively* less fixing way more than makes up for it, IMHO (proper maintenance is a given - any of these will bankrupt you when neglected and/or mistreated). Those repair and maintenance records for the 528e look like the logs for a Learjet compared to my two more modern cars. And BMWs were NOT cheap to fix back then either, if you have to pay somebody to do it (I don't). Neither of my cars has xenon headlights, quite intentionally. I agree the old cars are fun, but the new(er) ones are just massively better, and are aging massively better. And I would argue that neither of my current cars is any less fun than the two 535i's I owned. More fun than my '91 318is might be arguable though. Really wish I had kept that one.

The ideal is to have some of each, though both of my olde crockes are British.