Door Seals

[CoastieE28]

Guys couple of quick questions.

I have a lot of air coming on the bottom of the front drivers side door. The weather seal looks to be just fine. What am I missing? I can also feel a lot of wind coming in on the corner near the mirror.

Any ideas would be great.

[Mike W.]

You are probably missing the vapor barrier, a sheet of plastic that goes on the door underneath the door panel and the noise by the mirror is probably a bad windlace, that seal/guide that the window rides in and seals against. Often by now it is broken at the mirror and separated. Replacement is the real cure, but sometimes you can make a big improvement by pulling it up and using caulking to repair it. Not as good as new by a long shot, but it can be a big help.

[CoastieE28]

Thanks Mike! Is that #2 on this parts diagram?

[Kyle in NO]

No, it's a big sheet of plastic that covers the door frame just behind the door panel. Looks like visqueen.

[Mike W.]

No, it's a big sheet of plastic that covers the door frame just behind the door panel. Looks like visqueen.

And about as durable as cellophane. One cut and it's gone.

[davintosh]

What Mike & Kyle said. Most of the cars I've seen with what looks like original liner had a dark gray material with a thin layer of foam-like stuff on one side that pretty much disintegrates when you look at it. I'm not sure what the proper stuff is to replace it, but on my cars I just cut a sheet of plastic to fit & taped around the edge. Keeps out the wind, noise, and moisture.

On our e53 X5, there is a layer of closed-cell foam behind the door panels. They used a tar-like crap to stick it to the door frame, which makes it a pain in the arse to remove without tearing the foam.

[BRRV]

X2 on the windlace. And my car has a) a gray foam insulator on the back of the door card (which shrinks over time, and is a pain to get everything lined up with) as well as a clear plastic door frame liner, with adhesive, which seals the door, from the door card and from the interior (I suspect it to be more of a wind barrier than anything). You can find adequate replacement for these materials at home improvement stores, or by doing a search on google for appropriate foam and plastic substitutes. But the windlace around the window, as mentioned, is by far the biggest contributor.

On your e53, are all the doors like that, with the mastic(tar)? That stuff gets used a lot by repair shops that strip off a door card or liner and then don't bother to re-fit correctly with new connectors or fasteners. I can't believe BMW would resort to this kind of build quality.

[Mike W.]

On your e53, are all the doors like that, with the mastic(tar)? That stuff gets used a lot by repair shops that strip off a door card or liner and then don't bother to re-fit correctly with new connectors or fasteners. I can't believe BMW would resort to this kind of build quality.

On E39s at least and my guess is the 53's too, it's just used to attach the upgraded foam vapor barrier/insulator, not the actual door card itself. And it works well for that. BMW build quality has slipped with all the plastic and all (and I spent some time fighting it this weekend) but this isn't one of those places.

[davintosh]

On your e53, are all the doors like that, with the mastic(tar)? That stuff gets used a lot by repair shops that strip off a door card or liner and then don't bother to re-fit correctly with new connectors or fasteners. I can't believe BMW would resort to this kind of build quality.

On E39s at least and my guess is the 53's too, it's just used to attach the upgraded foam vapor barrier/insulator, not the actual door card itself. And it works well for that. BMW build quality has slipped with all the plastic and all (and I spent some time fighting it this weekend) but this isn't one of those places.

I've been inside three of the doors -- RF for a broken door handle carrier, LF for a broken key cylinder, LR for a broken window regulator -- and all three used the same stuff, but like Mike said, just for the foam vapor barrier. My son helped me with one of them, and said it's the same stuff used on lots of other makes/models; he works in a body shop, and hates the gooey black stuff because there's really no easy way to get inside the door with that in the way. It's so tacky it's impossible to mess with it using rubber gloves, and once it gets on your hands it's miserable to get off. I've tried using a heat gun to get past it, and it only makes it worse. I'm thinking a shotgun or dynamite might be the best way, but I'm afraid to try.

The door cards themselves are attached mostly with plastic buttons similar to what's used on the e28, but with a little rubber grommet on them. Not sure what that's for, but I've got a huge bag of the e28 style buttons, and have used them to replace broken ones on the X5 without issue. The door cards are attached very much like earlier models; not difficult to get them off without damage, provided you know how they're attached and the tricks to getting past them.

[BRRV]

It's so tacky it's impossible to mess with it using rubber gloves, and once it gets on your hands it's miserable to get off. I've tried using a heat gun to get past it, and it only makes it worse. I'm thinking a shotgun or dynamite might be the best way, but I'm afraid to try.

Good to know, I have less experience with newer cars, but am very familiar with this material, as 3M sells it as "strip caulk". It's exactly as you describe, and 3M Adhesive Remover is about all I can find that will work (and it's messy, for sure). Awful hard to work with. Obviously, cars are being built nowadays not be worked on by their owners, or in some cases even by their builders!

[misha]

The best way to get through that black sticky stuff is to pull it a little and then use a razor blade to slice it. Leaves some on each side. Easy to stick together after that. Seems like most companies use that black stuff for inner door vapor barrier stuff.

Oh and we call that shit "dumb dumb" cause it sticks to everything.

[Mike W.]

I've worked on a couple of doors with it and never really had too much of a problem. I can peel the vapor barrier off, the stuff stays tacky, but not go everywhere stringly loose and for the most part can be reused. Either butyl caulk or the good old 3M 8509. However that stuff will go everywhere if you're not careful and usually even if you are.

[CoastieE28]

Guys thanks a ton for the info;

Mike what is the windlace? I have also heard of making string out of blu-tac or blue stik? and using that for the vapor barrier?

[tn535i]

fwiw I've used self adhesive vinyl shelf paper. No messing with glue or adhesive and I like to get rid of the sticky stuff currently on the door with paint thinner. The normal width of a roll is just enough for our doors height and the length is enough to do several doors. I think I paid $8 for the last roll I bought at maybe Hobby Lobby or Wally World.

[Mike W.]

The windlace is one of those kind of odd sounding terms. It's just the rubber and cloth U shaped guide the window goes up and down in and seals at the top. Time, ozone and UV takes a toll over the years but you can mitigate some of it if there's a gap at the mirror as there often is and you seal it. I haven't done it, but I'm told it makes a big difference in interior noise if you replace them, both of them, on the drivers side.

Shelf lining sounds like a good idea, I usually use visqueen, package tape and caulking with medicore results.