Swapping to M20B25 just need a little help

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
justinmd
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Location: King George VA

Swapping to M20B25 just need a little help

Post by justinmd »

I purchased an '86 528e that had a broken timing belt for $600 and then found an M20B25 from an '87 325is. I have torn the engine apart and rebuilt it and am about at the point where I am ready to put it back in the car but I wanted to start addressing the wiring. I Pulled the computer today and was about to pull the harness out when I saw 8 to 12 wires coming from the harness and running behind the dash. I started looking at the new harness and saw no cut wires. I am guessing at this point that those wires run to the fuse panel and then back to the car.

I have been doing some searching and have seen a lot of 325e to 325i swap info but will this be the same from the 528e? If anyone has any information regarding this swap can you please pass it along?


Thanks!

Old motor.
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20130304_191904.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

New motor the day I got it.

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20130307_223138.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

New motor waiting to go in the car.
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motor by justinmdougherty, on Flickr
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

Easiest way is to get a harness from a 1988 528e. Plugs right into everything that the i motor has and, more importantly, plugs into the fuse box.
justinmd
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Location: King George VA

Post by justinmd »

awesome. So let me just ask the question to be clear. If i get the '88 528e harness, it will fit the monotronic 1.1/1.3 computer and all i should have to do is splice the wires that run from the old harness to the new one?
Bimmerguy2002
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Post by Bimmerguy2002 »

justinmd wrote:awesome. So let me just ask the question to be clear. If i get the '88 528e harness, it will fit the monotronic 1.1/1.3 computer and all i should have to do is splice the wires that run from the old harness to the new one?
a super eta harness IS motronic 1.1/1.3, its a true plug and play because its from an e28. I has one if you are interested ;)
justinmd
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Location: King George VA

Post by justinmd »

I am very interested if it fits as you say it will :-). PM me with details please.
Bimmerguy2002 wrote:
justinmd wrote:awesome. So let me just ask the question to be clear. If i get the '88 528e harness, it will fit the monotronic 1.1/1.3 computer and all i should have to do is splice the wires that run from the old harness to the new one?
a super eta harness IS motronic 1.1/1.3, its a true plug and play because its from an e28. I has one if you are interested ;)
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

You will not have to splice anything. Just plug and go.
justinmd
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Post by justinmd »

sorry for my ignorance, I started looking around after your post and see where the wires connect.

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20130412_194724.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

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20130412_194838.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

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20130412_194924.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

There is no green box (idle control module) for Motronic 1.1/1.3- it is handled by the ECU on the newer stuff.

The 88 528e harness plugs right into the side of the fuse box there like in your picture.

The ECU plug along with a small multi-pin plug feeds through the firewall and plugs into your ECU above the glove box.
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

The green box in your glove box is the ICM. Motronic 1.1 doesnt use it and it won't be needed.
justinmd
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Post by justinmd »

yeah, got it now. thanks for the info!!! :oops:
demetk
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Re: Swapping to M20B25 just need a little help

Post by demetk »

justinmd wrote:Old motor.
Image
Wow. I have not seen valves embedded in a piston before.
justinmd
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Location: King George VA

Post by justinmd »

yeah man. I was surprised too. it went around at least 3 times after breaking because you can see 2 marks where they hit before getting stuck. also doesn't help that the guy was selling the car for his parents and had no idea what was going on. tried to start the car when i got there... it cranked, but no GO.
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

I saw one that flipped around several dozen times, flipped over, punched a hole in the piston with the broken off valve stem, and then lodged sideways in the piston. It also broke several rocker arms and smashed the rocker shafts right out of the head.
justinmd
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Post by justinmd »

mooseheadm5 wrote:I saw one that flipped around several dozen times, flipped over, punched a hole in the piston with the broken off valve stem, and then lodged sideways in the piston. It also broke several rocker arms and smashed the rocker shafts right out of the head.
It probably got substantially less gas mileage after that.
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

I never tried to figure it out, it involves dividing by zero.
justinmd
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Post by justinmd »

haha
Bimmerguy2002
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Re: Swapping to M20B25 just need a little help

Post by Bimmerguy2002 »

demetk wrote:Wow. I have not seen valves embedded in a piston before.
how else is he supposed to MAKE valve reliefs? :banana:
justinmd
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Post by justinmd »

mooseheadm5 wrote:There is no green box (idle control module) for Motronic 1.1/1.3- it is handled by the ECU on the newer stuff.

The 88 528e harness plugs right into the side of the fuse box there like in your picture.

The ECU plug along with a small multi-pin plug feeds through the firewall and plugs into your ECU above the glove box.
I just took a look at my computer and do not see a second plug. just the main harness plug (55 pin) with Bosch 0261200153
BMW 1714998 (Motronic 1.1). is the harness you were talking about what I need?
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

The harness you need is the complete engine harness from the 88. bimmerguy will set you up.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

All you need to do to make the 88 harness work is hog out the hole in the firewall where the harness connector pokes through. The 88 has a 55 pin connector which will not fit through the 86 firewall.
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

turbodan wrote:All you need to do to make the 88 harness work is hog out the hole in the firewall where the harness connector pokes through. The 88 has a 55 pin connector which will not fit through the 86 firewall.
The 55 pin connector fit thru the firewall hole in my 84, but it was a bitch. Scraped up the plastic a little on the back side. I didn't have to enlarge the hole though.
12valves
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Post by 12valves »

turbodan wrote:All you need to do to make the 88 harness work is hog out the hole in the firewall where the harness connector pokes through. The 88 has a 55 pin connector which will not fit through the 86 firewall.
should be able to remove the outer plastic shell from the 55-pin connector, fit the connector through the hole, and then reinstall (unless maybe '88 is different from the later ones)
Bimmerguy2002
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Post by Bimmerguy2002 »

turbodan wrote:All you need to do to make the 88 harness work is hog out the hole in the firewall where the harness connector pokes through. The 88 has a 55 pin connector which will not fit through the 86 firewall.
I also had to elongate mine with a file, 87 car
justinmd
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Location: King George VA

Post by justinmd »

Didn't want to start a new thread, and need a little more help with my swap. Going well so far, got the harness in and installed basically just waiting to put the engine in and start connecting it up.

My question is, I removed the clutch from the old motor (b27) and want to try to use it for the new engine. I'm not trying to skimp on stuff, but if I don't need a new clutch I don't want to spend the money, I have a bit of a limited budget at tis point.

This is what it all looks like as it came off.

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20130502200548197.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

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20130502200555564.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

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20130502200614712.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

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20130502200637211.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

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20130502200710391.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr


Here are a few of the engine bay and the engine.

Before:
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20130502200735628.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

After:
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20130502_212839.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

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20130502_212834.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr

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20130502_212824.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr
davintosh
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Post by davintosh »

That new engine looks like it cleaned up pretty nicely. What all did you do to it?

Image

Looks like you have a new water pump... the eta's water pump differs slightly from the i's pump. The eta doesn't have the extra pipe nipple coming off the side. That came up in another thread about putting an i engine in an e28; the e30s and e34s that used that engine had a different coolant expansion tank configuration... From the looks of your engine bay, you must be planning to keep the stock expansion tank; if that extra nipple isn't used in your setup, I suppose it could just be capped off or something.

I also have an M20B25 that's going into my eta, and am planning to just use the eta pump (I already have a fresh one) and eta cooling bits.

As for your question about the clutch, any idea how long ago those parts were installed & how many miles are on them? The clutch plate looks to have some life left to it, and should last a while, provided you treat it well. The pressure plate can be hard to judge. When they get old, I'm told it takes more effort to disengage the clutch. Also, if you do use those parts, I'd at least put in a fresh throwout bearing. Not terribly expensive, and would help extend the time until having to pull the transmission again.
RangerGress
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Post by RangerGress »

davintosh wrote: Looks like you have a new water pump... the eta's water pump differs slightly from the i's pump. The eta doesn't have the extra pipe nipple coming off the side. That came up in another thread about putting an i engine in an e28; the e30s and e34s that used that engine had a different coolant expansion tank configuration... From the looks of your engine bay, you must be planning to keep the stock expansion tank; if that extra nipple isn't used in your setup, I suppose it could just be capped off or something.

As for your question about the clutch, any idea how long ago those parts were installed & how many miles are on them? The clutch plate looks to have some life left to it, and should last a while, provided you treat it well. The pressure plate can be hard to judge. When they get old, I'm told it takes more effort to disengage the clutch. Also, if you do use those parts, I'd at least put in a fresh throwout bearing. Not terribly expensive, and would help extend the time until having to pull the transmission again.
The M20B25's on e30's have an "early" water pump and a "late" water pump. Early has the additional port that points downish. This goes to the reservoir on right side of car. Late does not have the port, but it does have a fastening point for a steel coolant tube that goes across the engine. This tube supports the e30 late radiator which has it's outlet at bottom-right (early rad is bottom left). Late cars have the reservoir on the left side of the car.

With a little imagination one can plumb either type of water pump into either reservoir (or radiator) config. On my e30 I've done right side reservoir with both types of water pump. Right now I have no reservoir at all.

This thread has some discussion of early/late water pumps and plumbing mods. http://spece30.com/forum/31-southeast/6 ... t=20#66655

IMO the clutch is ok to re-use.
justinmd
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Location: King George VA

Post by justinmd »

The engine is from an '87 325i and this is what it looked like when I got it. It did have the same water pump as the eta.

Image
20130308_190457.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr
RangerGress
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Post by RangerGress »

justinmd wrote:The engine is from an '87 325i and this is what it looked like when I got it. It did have the same water pump as the eta.

Image
20130308_190457.jpg by justinmdougherty, on Flickr
Reservoir on the right so early B25 water pump.
justinmd
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Location: King George VA

Post by justinmd »

yeah, I was second guessing myself after the other post but I want back to look at what I took off and they are the same.
davintosh
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Post by davintosh »

Ah... I see. The later etas got the same water pump as the B25s. My eta is from '84, so only one pipe coming off of it.

Early M20B27 pump (PA369) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - M20B25 pump (PA243)
Image Image

From http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=116113
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