Rear subframe bushings: nightmare or 2 hour job?

[HotWaterMusic]

After extensive reading here about rear subframe bushing removal and replacement, I can see that no two people seem to agree on how difficult the job is, or frankly on *how* best to do the job. I see a lot of mention of the sawzall method, huge hammers, pullers, $300 tools, torchs, dish soap, etc., but about the only thing everyone agrees on is that the Powerflex bushings are incredibly easy to install. That's good, cause that's what I have.
So then, how hard are the original bushings to get out? Is the community any closer to an agreement as to the best method for removal than they were in the threads I've already read? I saw a lot of mention of the "Sawzall" method, but not what that method *actually* is. Can anyone fill me in or link me to a definitive write-up on it? Also, am I missing the pages in the Bentley manual about RSFB r&r or does it just not cover it? Thanks guys!

[Slow_Ballin']

Step one: Jack up the car and support it on jack stand NOT on the rear subframe.

Step two: remove bolts from bushing

Step three: sawzall the old bushing out

step next: put in the new bushing

Thats the simple rundown, took me about 2 hours or so on my first try with a pizza break half way through. Just cut the old bushing out being careful not to cut into the subframe itself. I bought two sawzall blades and it went rather well. Once you get the bracket off under the bushing its pretty obvious what to cut. Once you cut enough, it pretty much falls out, at least it did for me.

I used HD bushings instead of poly and I heard you have to lower the subframe to get the poly in, someone else can confirm that.

[ilikemybike]

Nightmare.

I did it a few days ago. I couldn't pound the studs out so I did it with them still in. Sawzalled the bushings out. It took some finesse to do it without the tip of the blade bouncing the saw off the underside of the mount cavity and smashing my hand between the saw and the driveway.

The bushing was pretty much glued to the subframe after 24 years of being in there so even with the aluminum body of the bushing cut, it took lots of cussing and blood to get it out.

Old vs. new


The center of one bushing fell out when I took the nut off.


This method worked great in getting the new ones in. Sounds like Powerflex is the way to go.

[Mike W.]

Yep, it was work but no big deal. I didn't take the bolts out, just did it with them in place. I had to make a couple of cuts to get the tension off, but it worked. Lots of lube like WD40 for the blade to keep it from binding on the rubber. You can nick it some, but be careful to keep the blade parallel so you don't cut into the subframe much. A little would be no big deal, but not too much. It would be easy to weld, but no need.

[davintosh]

Bah; just rent the tool through the Moosehead Engineering site. Brendan (aka: Frybrid 524td on mye28.com) is the guy you'll deal with on it. You pay a deposit for the tool, he ships it to you, you do your bushings, ship it back to him, and he subtracts $40 plus his shipping cost from your deposit. The tool takes all the grunt work out of the job, and is really the way to go. Sure, there's roughly $50 involved, but the time it saves is worth something too.

After doing some research a while back, I built a tool that worked with a two-jaw puller to remove the subframe bushings from my e32, and that worked ok... But that tool (with some modifications) failed miserably getting one of the four bushings out of my X5 last fall. I blew a couple hours on fabrication work, and another four hours R&Ring that one bushing. I broke down and spent the $$ on a tool similar to Brendan's but sized for the e53. It was cake.

Here's a crappy time-lapse video of my son & I doing the right-rear bushing. That one took about an hour to do, but once we got the process down on that one, the two on the other side of the car took less than an hour total.

[Motronic]

So then, Is the community any closer to an agreement as to the best method for removal than they were in the threads I've already read?

Sure sounds like it so far.

Edit: That's not a crappy time lapse video.
I bookmarked it for my attempt on the bushings. Thanks for putting that up Dave.

[Frybrid 524td]

Thanks Dave.

[pleasefixitup]

So then, Is the community any closer to an agreement as to the best method for removal than they were in the threads I've already read?

Sure sounds like it so far.

Edit: That's not a crappy time lapse video.
I bookmarked it for my attempt on the bushings. Thanks for putting that up Dave.

I like the correct tool idea. "Hack jobs" don't always leave you satisfied with the end result.

I have been told that a torch is the best way to remove the subframe bushings and a sawzaw is a bit dangerous.

But I've never done the job myself--that is happening this summer.

[demetk]

I have been told that a torch is the best way to remove the subframe bushings and a sawzaw is a bit dangerous.

LOL, the guy with the gas tank leak better not read this.

[HotWaterMusic]

I just need the bushings pulled out, as now that I see what I am working with, installing the Powerflex urethane bushings should be a cinch. Do I need new bolts though? And am I wrong or is the SIR tool at Moosehead for the installing of the bushings and not the removal?

[Frybrid 524td]

I just need the bushings pulled out, as now that I see what I am working with, installing the Powerflex urethane bushings should be a cinch. Do I need new bolts though? And am I wrong or is the SIR tool at Moosehead for the installing of the bushings and not the removal?

The tool is for removal and install.

[davintosh]

If you're thinking of renting the tool, don't bother getting PowerFlex just for the easy installation. Installing the stock bushings with the tool is super easy, and the stock bushings are far cheaper.

[HotWaterMusic]

I already bought the powerflex bushings. They are sitting in my garage waiting to be installed. I assumed (incorrectly) the RSFB would be a breeze job, but then I read people's horror stories on here. That's why the bushings are still sitting there uninstalled--I've yet to devise my plan of attack after reading everyone's differing opinions on the job. If the subframe needs to lowered to get the Powerflex in, then that's a whole new issue I have to sort out. And there's a bolt I have to undo that anchors underneath the rear seat? And again, why does Bentley completely ignore this job?

[shagrath]

Urethane bushings really are the way to go for the rear mounts. Easy to install is a bonus.

[davintosh]

If you've already got the Powerflex bushings and you have access to a SawsAll (without spending a bunch of money for one), I'd give that a shot. To get them in though you'll need to remove the bolts from under the seat. From what I've read around here that usually takes a few good whacks with a BFH; just make sure you have a nut on the end to protect the threads, and maybe have spares on hand in case they get bummed up in the process.

I guess I never noticed the Bentley didn't cover the subframe bushings, but there's nothing; that sucks. Same with the e32. Glad to have all the info here (and elsewhere on the web) about the job though!

[shagrath]

If you've already got the Powerflex bushings and you have access to a SawsAll (without spending a bunch of money for one), I'd give that a shot. To get them in though you'll need to remove the bolts from under the seat. From what I've read around here that usually takes a few good whacks with a BFH; just make sure you have a nut on the end to protect the threads, and maybe have spares on hand in case they get bummed up in the process.

I guess I never noticed the Bentley didn't cover the subframe bushings, but there's nothing; that sucks. Same with the e32. Glad to have all the info here (and elsewhere on the web) about the job though!

if he is steady and careful he won't need top remove the bolts (however he would need to drop the entire subframe enough to clear them to fit in the 2 piece bushings).

[Frybrid 524td]

I was refreshing my brakes when I installed Powerflex subrframe bushings so I didn't have to punch out the large bolts at all. With the brake lines removed, it is easy to lower the subframe enough to get the top section of the poly bushing into the carrier without needing to remove the bolt. I've rarely tackled one job at a time on my car though, I always seem to find a way to address one more thing "while I'm in there."

FWIW, I've used both the Sawzall and subframe bushing tool methods for getting out old subframe bushings. Obviously, I'd like to recoup the cost of buying the subframe tool by renting it to more people but I also wholeheartedly believe the bushing tool is the way to go. The two methods both work but the proper tool makes the whole ordeal much easier.

[Slow_Ballin']

The lowering of the subframe is why I avoided the poly. I just froze my HD bushings over night, lubed em up good with some KY and then pressed them in with the jack method pictured above.

I also was scared off by the horror stories I read on here, but overall, not a bad job.

Oh for the sawzall, I just propped mine on the ground so it wouldn't bounce and just guided the blade.

[ElGuappo]

Removing the pins is a good idea IMO, you need to hit them with some PB Blaster at least a week before hand, from the top and let it soak down.
And air chisel with a hammer tip makes short work of their removal.
heating the carrier can make the old bushing slide out easier, for certain, just move the torch around and heat it evenly.

The threaded rod for the tool does wear out, so make sure you either have extra in the kit, or know where to get more. As I recall its M20 or M22, I had to get over to an ACE when the bearing got beligerant and put too much pressure on the threads, and stripped a few.
4' length of rod alter, cut down to 1' lengths, and we are good to go for a while.

[BuzzBomb]

My experience, using the 3026 tool:

With the car rear raised a couple of feet off of the ground using jack-stands, first remove the rear wheels, then the bush-chassis locators- 22mm and 13mm.
With a floor jack, support the differential. with another floor jack, support the exhaust center muffler. remove the exhaust hanger bolts from the carrier and rear muffler. Remove the rear shock lower mounting bolts, and the sway bar end links from the carrier.
In tandem, slowly lower both of the jacks about 3 inches. At this point you can maneuver the bushes off of the pins by pulling down on the carrier ends, one side at a time. The diff-carrier-trailing arm assembly will be supported by the jack, and the brake lines and parking brake cables will keep it centered. If you're worried that you will stress the brake lines too much, you can disconnect them. Mine were taught, but I wasn't worried that they would be compromised.

With the bushing away from the pin (That pin is a bear to remove. I'd do anything to avoid that dreadful job), the tool is assembled onto the carrier bushing.

Start wrenching. It doesn't take a lot of force, thankfully. Also no need for heating/burning of rubber.
You can see the bush being pulled down into the receiver.

Since no heat was used, no molten/melted rubber to remove from the carrier.

Putting the bush and tool in place, aligning the slots in the bushing with the dimples in the carrier. I just used a little silicone spray on the bush.

All the way home.



I know that it's not a common tool, and it's expensive to buy. All I did was do a search on the tool part number on the interwebs, and I came across a post of someone who had the tool and was renting it to people who needed it.

[BRRV]

I used the sawzall and, with proper attention to detail, it was no problem: 2 1/2 hours, taking my time. You need to make sure that the car is high enough in the air so that the sawzall will fit under the rear axle carrier, otherwise you won't be able to get a clean cut along the entire side of the bushing. I also replaced the bolts pressed into the chassis but mine weren't damaged, so it was an optional thing. I used Ireland Engineering poly bushings and, while I'm not completely happy with them due to some noise issues, I would not at this time replace them with the OE bushing, but rather with the Powerflex bushings and see if things improve. The cartridge-style fit of the poly bushings is the biggest advantage, and doesn't require any special tooling.

[demetk]

My experience, using the 3026 tool:

Cool pics showing the process. Thanks.

I have to say though that those jack stands you were using look to be well beyond their usefulness. Do us all a favor and please throw them away and get some nice and safe stands.

[BuzzBomb]

My experience, using the 3026 tool:

I have to say though that those jack stands you were using look to be well beyond their usefulness. Do us all a favor and please throw them away and get some nice and safe stands.

Patina, my friend. A couple of old friends, that very well may kill me some day.

[BuzzBomb]

*As a footnote, I ordered a couple of the bushing pins from the dealer. I should get them in a day or two. Obviously I won't be needing them. If anyone wants them, you can have them for $14 for the pair- (My cost).

[mooseheadm5]

You don't have to pull the subframe that far down if you don't want. You just drive the pins out into the back seat area and the threaded rod can pass up into that bore.

[Mike W.]

My experience, using the 3026 tool:

I have to say though that those jack stands you were using look to be well beyond their usefulness. Do us all a favor and please throw them away and get some nice and safe stands.

Patina, my friend. A couple of old friends, that very well may kill me some day.

I've got some like that. Close enough I even know you've got the top part sitting on the pin not thru one of the holes. Not that I've ever done anything like that.

[BuzzBomb]

You don't have to pull the subframe that far down if you don't want. You just drive the pins out into the back seat area and the threaded rod can pass up into that bore.

That's exactly the point. You either push the pins, which takes a lot of effort, or you drop the carrier a few more inches. I saved time and frustration by choosing the latter.

[Jelmer538i]

When I was working at a BMW repair shop I did the job in 1/2 hour after a while but the first time was at home and cost me an afternoon for 1 bushing.

[slammin_e28]

I used the tool and did them in about 20 minutes on a lift.

So easy I thought I was doing it wrong, but there's really no way to screw this up with the tool.

Half the time I was pounding out one of the pins. Thank goodness for the foresight to buy net pins and nuts before I took it all apart.

[lilpoindexter]

I sawzalled the old bushings out, and put poly back in. I would say it's not so bad. I put new subframe bolts in because I was there, and I was afraid I would jack them up during the operation.
I did these on a driveway a Friday after work. The poly bushings transmit a helluva lot more whiny differential noise into the cabin, but I'm not about to take them out to put rubber in.