anyone attempted an ICV delete?

JesterMX6 · Post by **JesterMX6** » Mar 11, 2012 11:51 PM

i'm sick of it getting in my way. has anyone deleted theirs successfully?

Cactus · Post by **Cactus** » Mar 12, 2012 12:09 AM

It's possible. If you want to adjust your throttle stop way out and plug the ICV holes, I'm sure you could do it. You'd give up some engine braking/mileage and since your TPS would never read a closed throttle, I think the computer would act kinda funny. It could work, though.

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » Mar 12, 2012 12:18 AM

You'd have a very unstable idle.

JesterMX6 · Post by **JesterMX6** » Mar 12, 2012 12:20 AM

Cactus wrote:It's possible. If you want to adjust your throttle stop way out and plug the ICV holes, I'm sure you could do it. You'd give up some engine braking/mileage and since your TPS would never read a closed throttle, I think the computer would act kinda funny. It could work, though.

thats what i was thinking. what i need is a different throttle body with twin butterflies.

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » Mar 12, 2012 12:25 AM

What it needs is for you to not delete the ICV since it works really well. Engine braking and TPS idle would be pretty much normal if you adjusted everything properly, but you'd have to idle the motor high to keep it from dying when it was cold or was loaded down electrically or with the AC on.

Kyle in NO · Post by **Kyle in NO** » Mar 12, 2012 12:53 AM

How the hell does an ICV "get in your way"?

Post by **Jeremy** » Mar 12, 2012 12:56 AM

Kyle in NO wrote:How the hell does an ICV "get in your way"?

That was my thought as well. What, exactly, is it in way of?

JesterMX6 · Post by **JesterMX6** » Mar 12, 2012 12:58 AM

mooseheadm5 wrote:What it needs is for you to not delete the ICV since it works really well. Engine braking and TPS idle would be pretty much normal if you adjusted everything properly, but you'd have to idle the motor high to keep it from dying when it was cold or was loaded down electrically or with the AC on.

i don't have a/c and can run a seperate "cold" map with the WAR chip.

i'm just wanting to eliminate as many vacuum lines as possible. already ditched the charcoal canister. and two big ones are going from the intake boot to the ICV and from the ICV to the manifold. and that spot on the manifold where the ICV connects to is a whore to get to.

honestly, i'd be happy with a smaller unit that doesn't require the 7/8" lines. something built into the throttle body like this:

ChiTownTy · Post by **ChiTownTy** » Mar 12, 2012 1:29 AM

JesterMX6 wrote:[quote=

thats what i was thinking. what i need is a different throttle body with twin butterflies.

Eml throttle would be real nice in your case..my car lacks a TPS and ICV...its all built into the throttle

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Mar 12, 2012 1:32 AM

Those spark plug wires are a pain in the ass too. And all those coolant hoses.

wkohler · Post by **wkohler** » Mar 12, 2012 1:40 AM

turbodan wrote:Those spark plug wires are a pain in the ass too. And all those coolant hoses.

This guy is on the right track.

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Mar 12, 2012 2:23 AM

Certain early Motronic BMW don't have an ICV, they have an auxillary air valve, unfortunately it also uses the large vacuum lines. Try completely blocking off the lines with some sort of plugs and adjust the throttle plate for a new base idle, then adjust the TPS to close at the new throttle plate opening.

slimdevil27 · Post by **slimdevil27** » Mar 12, 2012 2:29 AM

Weight reduction improves the stance, besides it's at least 20 hp.

BMW engineers are the dumbest.

shagrath · Post by **shagrath** » Mar 12, 2012 8:08 AM

SInce we're going to be gettin rid of shit, I wanna reduce my rotating mass. Can I just ditch the rotors? And since those will be gone I can get rid of the calipers and pads and brake lines too.

That also means no ebrake.

Weight reduction FTW!

taiden · Post by **taiden** » Mar 12, 2012 8:12 AM

Through a series of unavoidable and unfortunate events, the ICV on my e30 is essentially deleted. The throttle stop is adjusted for a 900 rpm idle when fully warmed up.

What you end up with is a very low (and sometimes unsustainable) idle when cold, but after 30 seconds of driving the idle will hold itself. As the car warms up the idle will land between 600 rpm and 900 rpm based on temperature. Idle is rock steady though.

You can always test it out by blocking the ICV path with a coin or a wad of aluminum foil and then adjusting your stop.

slammin_e28 · Post by **slammin_e28** » Mar 12, 2012 8:35 AM

Want to delete vacuum lines?

B35 swap.

Or just take your throttle off and drive your car by changing the fuel trim, leaning it out to slow down, rich it up to speed up. Essentially metering fuel instead of air! BRILLIANT!

Post by **Jeremy** » Mar 12, 2012 10:13 AM

JesterMX6 wrote:i don't have a/c and can run a seperate "cold" map with the WAR chip.

Yea, but how's that "cold map" going to allow more air into the engine during a cold idle? Answer is that it can't. You'll be forced to settle for a very low idle on cold starts, one that might not even keep the engine running, and a mildly high idle at temperature just like taiden explained.

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Mar 12, 2012 10:42 AM

Jeremy wrote:
JesterMX6 wrote:i don't have a/c and can run a seperate "cold" map with the WAR chip.
Yea, but how's that "cold map" going to allow more air into the engine during a cold idle? Answer is that it can't. You'll be forced to settle for a very low idle on cold starts, one that might not even keep the engine running, and a mildly high idle at temperature just like taiden explained.

That is an issue which the AAV in early Euro Motronic addresses. Maybe the OP will install the fast idle linkage from an old Rochester.

Bimmerguy2002 · Post by **Bimmerguy2002** » Mar 12, 2012 3:57 PM

Even removing that for weight reduction is too much for my anorexic e28

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Mar 12, 2012 3:58 PM

I haven't had an ICV in the turbo car since I installed Megasquirt. It wouldn't be hard to implement, and although I would like to have one I just don't want to deal with installing and tuning it. What you have to do to run without is set the throttle open just far enough to allow a cold idle. This raises the warm idle substantially, which requires a great deal of tuning to deal with. Using dual ignition tables switched by manifold pressure, I've got enough resolution to hold the warm idle down to about 800 RPM by retarding ignition timing to keep the engine speed in a pocket. Its easy to get the idle dialed in with this technique but it creates another set of driveability problems to tune out. You won't be able to do that with the Miller chip.

Having the throttle plate held open also affects engine braking and low load running characteristics. The engine will have a tendency to abruptly cut fuel and buck when the throttle reaches its fully closed position but the engine is still getting enough air to maintain a certain load and RPM. You can tune around that as well but you need a lot of resolution on the ignition timing tables. My low load table is scaled in 1 kpa increments. If MS didn't have the excrutiatingly fine tuning capability available it couldn't be made to work.

JesterMX6 · Post by **JesterMX6** » Mar 12, 2012 5:29 PM

well i'm glad i received, and thank those of you who gave me, some real answers amidst all the smart ass responses. i wasn't aware that i had stumbled into a honda board. my mistake.

Post by **Jeremy** » Mar 12, 2012 5:49 PM

JesterMX6 wrote:i wasn't aware that i had stumbled into a honda board.

RUSRS? Have you ever SEEN the number of vacuum lines there are on a late model carbureted Honda? It'd be enough to make you cry given your obvious disdain for vacuum hoses of any type!

shagrath · Post by **shagrath** » Mar 13, 2012 10:12 AM

JesterMX6 wrote:well i'm glad i received, and thank those of you who gave me, some real answers amidst all the smart ass responses. i wasn't aware that i had stumbled into a honda board. my mistake.

Playful gesture sir. Welcome to mye28

Be easy

taiden · Post by **taiden** » Mar 13, 2012 10:17 AM

My biggest gripe with BMW vacuum hoses is just that they are often unique and specialized. Sometimes it's hard to find what you need without going to the dealer. It's not a big deal, but some cars you can go to napa and refresh all your lines off the spool for < $10

JesterMX6 · Post by **JesterMX6** » Mar 13, 2012 10:20 AM

shagrath wrote:
JesterMX6 wrote:well i'm glad i received, and thank those of you who gave me, some real answers amidst all the smart ass responses. i wasn't aware that i had stumbled into a honda board. my mistake.
Playful gesture sir. Welcome to mye28

Be easy

thanks. i've been in the forced induction forum for a while (not a huge poster) but hadn't ventured past it because i hadn't really needed to. wasn't expecting the type of responses with which i was met.

taiden wrote:My biggest gripe with BMW vacuum hoses is just that they are often unique and specialized. Sometimes it's hard to find what you need without going to the dealer. It's not a big deal, but some cars you can go to napa and refresh all your lines off the spool for < $10

this is part of my issue. the other part is that i'm mid way through a turbo install and running the car n/a on a reverse throttle body intake manifold. this means i have a huge line going from my ICV to my intake boot as seen here:

and its just plain ugly, but there's no real way around it.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Mar 13, 2012 11:01 AM

JesterMX6 wrote:

and its just plain ugly, but there's no real way around it.

That is ugly. Get some 1/2 soft copper tubing and a spring type tubing bender. Form it and run it where you want it with hose stubs at the end to connect it. Paint it black if you want to dress it up. You'll have a much neater look for not a lot of money.

JesterMX6 · Post by **JesterMX6** » Mar 13, 2012 11:30 AM

thats my long term plan if i can't find a good solution to delete the ICV. the damn hole in the intake manifold that rests just under the fuel rail is one of things that proves engineers enjoy trolling mechanics.

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » Mar 13, 2012 12:05 PM

You know, if you had just posted that picture, we would have been able to give you good advice from the get go. There are plenty of ways around that problem. I'm at work right now, but I can find a picture of the Alpina setup (or you can) that makes for a much cleaner install than that kludge you have there.

JesterMX6 · Post by **JesterMX6** » Mar 13, 2012 12:46 PM

yeah i always forget that my work log isn't posted here.

i'll look into the alpina setup if i can find a pic. the hack job thats shown in the pic is strictly so i can get the car from one place to another. i needed functionally in a pinch and it did the job. i was worried about hose collapse at that size so i ended up using heater hose.

i did end up ordering the OE hose that goes from that pesky outlet in the manifold up to the ICV so hopefully my vacuum leak that exists there right now due to the hodgepodge of adapters and bends i have right now.

taiden · Post by **taiden** » Mar 13, 2012 1:00 PM

Is your engine management utilizing speed density for air metering? If so, you can just run the icv open with a small cone filter.

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

anyone attempted an ICV delete?

anyone attempted an ICV delete?