Waaaaaaaaaaa!

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
Rich Euro M5
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Location: Klein, Texas

Post by Rich Euro M5 »

paul burke wrote:
Good & Tight wrote:
Duke wrote:I've said it before....saying it again. The M30 is not a good design for Forced Induction.
This is one of the reasons why boost over 13 psi on a M30 won't last.
:facepalm: Duke were you high when you wrote this?

I'm hallucinating just trying to make sense of all the crap I'm reading here!!

I think most of you busted into the beer to early ;)

Most common cause of head gasket failures? AFRs south of 11.85!

Paul
My gibberish is based on operating large bore aircraft engines. Obviously an aircraft has a different load profile, WOT, pretty much constant load and cruise altitude before leaning begins. In aircraft operations EGT and CHT is monitored on all 6 cylinders, the better monitors have a lean assist function which helps you identify which cylinder gets there first. There are two schools of thought regarding leaning, the old way which is rich of peak, and the new way, lean of peak. If you follow the old school method rule of thumb, it's always rich of peak EGT, this results in maximum power, go fast, at the expense of plug fouling and poor fuel economy. If you are looking for maximum fuel economy (Avgas averages about $6/gal) then lean of peak operation is the way to go. Basically go fast or go far. There are other variables to consider as well, percentage of power being produced determines the rich of peak or lean of peak EGT value. If we're cruising along making less than 65% power, there is no danger zone for EGTs and cylinder pressures produced. However if we're still capable of making 80% power at WOT, then EGTs between 200 F rich of peak and 60 F lean of peak are verbotten Either method works, the idea is avoiding peak cylinder pressures and the possibility of blowing jugs off the crankcase, which is not a good thing since you can't simply pull over when the engine grenades.

The problem with trying to translate these concepts to automotive use is, I have no idea what the actual A/F ratio is that results in peak cylinder pressure. My WAG is something between your number and slightly below stoichiometric.

Rich
paul burke
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Post by paul burke »

11.85 is just an average number , if you will.

Simply put, fuel that does not burn in the chamber is non compressible mass, being so it increases cylinder pressure (dynamic running pressure) which over time increases cylinder/chamber temp. which leads to a dieseling affect.

Most everyone has experienced a car that had run-on problems when the ignition was shut off. This is due to an over rich/high chamber temp. condition at idle and is usually cured when idle mixture is leaned.

You cannot control heat in the chamber by richening mixture (alcohol has some exceptions but can have similar results in an over rich condition) , this quite honestly will only make the situation worse. Chamber temp. is only under control when the proper fuel requirements(octane vs. heat,chamber efficiency etc.) are met or measures have been taken regarding removal/dissipation of heat between cycles.

Ken, if you recall your head gasket was compromised when you drove your car prior to tuning (very fat). It is my opinion that your head gasket wouldn't have failed under normal (post tuning) operation.

Paul
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

paul burke wrote:
Most everyone has experienced a car that had run-on problems when the ignition was shut off. This is due to an over rich/high chamber temp. condition at idle and is usually cured when idle mixture is leaned.

Paul
You are showing your age. Most people have no idea what you are talking about.
Ken H.
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Location: Suburban Gomorrah

Post by Ken H. »

paul burke wrote:Ken, if you recall your head gasket was compromised when you drove your car prior to tuning (very fat).
True. I don't recall what the A/F #s were that went into the initial matrix; we were just trying to get a consistent idle and something acceptable before putting it on the dyno to do a proper job. Obviously I screwed the pooch.
paul burke wrote: It is my opinion that your head gasket wouldn't have failed under normal (post tuning) operation.
Once we had it on the dyno, things were more or less OK when boost was kept under 7.25 psi (.5 bar). Pull printouts showed we were getting ~570 to 600 rwhp with A/F in the 12.3 range. No signs of any gasket leakage.
Where things began to Go South is when boost got pushed to around 10 psi or so. The values for advance, A/F, etc. were in one of the TEC-3r files. Justin may have archived these someplace or they got overwritten, but in any case, I don't have them. Whether the gasket had already begun to fail, I dunno. In any case, it became history much to everyone's intense displeasure. :evil:
None of this is finger-pointing; just my recollection of events.
fukoa
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Location: Friendship ,Wi

Post by fukoa »

take a look at these guy's build
he is not afraid to boost a BMW engine
http://forum.savarturbo.se/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=29836
note he is using a BMW motor ... not some rice yota one

he is not done yet after 92 pages
and I have been watching every step of his way with a lot of interest
Last edited by fukoa on Sep 09, 2011 11:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Scottinva
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Joined: Dec 07, 2008
Location: Norfolk, Virginia

Post by Scottinva »

Swedish people must use cheat codes, they are never happy with under 600rwhp and get there by using 35psi. If we tried that our engines would break at 17. Some kind of cheat codes it has to be. Also they have like genetics for fabrication.
skip535i
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Location: Lynchburg, VA

Post by skip535i »

fukoa wrote:take a look at these guy's build
he is not afraid to boost a BMW engine
http://forum.savarturbo.se/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=29836
note he is using a BMW motor ... not some rice yota one

he is not done yet after 92 pages
and I have been watching every step of his way with a lot of interested
OMG, I just looked at every page in that thread. HOLY JEEBUS.
Golosok
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Location: Israel

Post by Golosok »

Holly shit, you just can't stop looking, can you?
Duke
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Location: Ormond Beach, FL

Post by Duke »

skip535i wrote:OMG, I just looked at every page in that thread. HOLY JEEBUS.
Nothing like supercharging and turbo charging your S38.

Will be very easy to tune.
Ken H.
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Location: Suburban Gomorrah

Post by Ken H. »

Duke wrote:Nothing like supercharging and turbo charging your S38. Will be very easy to tune.
Absolutely. They just need to take it to some guy in NE Kansas who will put an AquaMist water injection system on it. ;) :wrenchtime:
Love ya, Duke. yes homo :up:
Duke
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Location: Ormond Beach, FL

Post by Duke »

Ken H. wrote: Absolutely. They just need to take it to some guy in NE Kansas who will put an AquaMist water injection system on it. ;) Love ya, Duke. yes homo
:moon:
Ken H.
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Location: Suburban Gomorrah

Post by Ken H. »

Duke wrote:
Ken H. wrote: Absolutely. They just need to take it to some guy in NE Kansas who will put an AquaMist water injection system on it. ;) Love ya, Duke. yes homo
Duke wrote: :moon:

Are you offering Voluntary Induction . . . as different from Forced Induction? Hmmmmm? :facepalm:
Xenocide
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Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Xenocide »

fukoa wrote:take a look at these guy's build
he is not afraid to boost a BMW engine
http://forum.savarturbo.se/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=29836
note he is using a BMW motor ... not some rice yota one

he is not done yet after 92 pages
and I have been watching every step of his way with a lot of interested
From the looks of that thread, he isn't really scared of anything. Google translate does a pretty good job with sweedish it seems actually. Absolutely awesome thread.
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