After trying to get the M535i to run properly with a US motronic 1.0 harness and not being able to, I decided to upgrade to motronic 1.3 from the later m30b35. At the junkyard last weekend I pulled the wiring harness, front harmonic balancer, crank sensor, plug wire #6 with the sensor on it, 179 ecu,
and all the other bits of the harness from a 1990 535i/5 for around $100-$120.
I pulled the US motronic 1.0 harness we had installed and lined it up the connectors with the new 1.3 harness. I ended up lengthening the coil wires, hacking up and splicing the old style oil level sender and alternator charge signal wires, among a few other things.
Wired it all in, ran new power wire from the battery to the power connections near the ECU and the c103 specific wires and fired her up. What a beautiful idle! Took it for a spin around the block, ran better than it ever did with the original euro harness and ecu. It took me two days on and off to figure out how to do the swap, but I could confidently finish it in under a day now. I didn't modify any aspect of the engine, nor change out the fuel rail or anything of that nature. Was a pretty easy swap ending with spectacular results for the amount of money and time invested. Hopefully now I can get this thing through smog.
Motronic 1.3 on a euro 10:1 m30b34
I ask because I have an '84 635csi with the euro dirty motor. At some point before I bought it, the harness was changed from 1.0 to motronic 1.1. An 059 ECU was added with an EAT chip. An o2 sensor was never added, but to compensate, Steve Haygood manually adjusted the mixture at the AFM. I just don't like the cobbled together management system and I have been thinking about doing the M1.3 swap.
It sounds like you are getting good results. Let me know when you get the chip and how the set-up responds. Thanks.
It sounds like you are getting good results. Let me know when you get the chip and how the set-up responds. Thanks.
I would seriously recommend it, and in your case I would recommend locating an 88 or 89 e24 harness that's already 1.3. It would make your swap a lot simpler. I can't imagine that 059 is living up to it's potential running open loop like that. Perhaps even hooking up the o2 sensor properly to your current system might improve things? Depending on how your car is setup, you might have the earlier style idle, as was equipped on my 84 735i. Retrofitting the US style ICV and setup would also be a good idea.pldlnr wrote:I ask because I have an '84 635csi with the euro dirty motor. At some point before I bought it, the harness was changed from 1.0 to motronic 1.1. An 059 ECU was added with an EAT chip. An o2 sensor was never added, but to compensate, Steve Haygood manually adjusted the mixture at the AFM. I just don't like the cobbled together management system and I have been thinking about doing the M1.3 swap.
It sounds like you are getting good results. Let me know when you get the chip and how the set-up responds. Thanks.
Euro ECU has 2 rows of pins while Motronic 1.1/1.3 has 3 rows, so yes the ECU was changed. From 061 (or 059) to 179.Vatoloco wrote:So you are still useing the Euro ECU or did you have to swap ecu as well?
I plan on doing this to my euro car, although I'm using a super eta harness instead. Sounds really nice though.
It is a little bit surprising, since the 179 ECU was tuned for 9:1 compression and slightly different combustion chamber.
With the 179 ECU, does the 10:1 compression engine run smooth and pulls nice throughout the RPM and load ranges? No ping at all? Even in hot weather?
If everything checks all right, then this conversion is a very cool find. I suppose that the fuel economy must have improved, too.
With the 179 ECU, does the 10:1 compression engine run smooth and pulls nice throughout the RPM and load ranges? No ping at all? Even in hot weather?
If everything checks all right, then this conversion is a very cool find. I suppose that the fuel economy must have improved, too.
The engine runs as well as it did on the 061 that was in there originally. The nice thing about the 1.3 swap is that the euro 10:1 engine uses the same cam as the m30b35, so while the combustion chamber shape and compression are slightly off, at least it's tuned to the same cam, rather than running the engine on a US 059 ecu tuned for the 8:1 compression and lower duration cam.RobertRO wrote:It is a little bit surprising, since the 179 ECU was tuned for 9:1 compression and slightly different combustion chamber.
With the 179 ECU, does the 10:1 compression engine run smooth and pulls nice throughout the RPM and load ranges? No ping at all? Even in hot weather?
If everything checks all right, then this conversion is a very cool find. I suppose that the fuel economy must have improved, too.
As to fuel economy, I can't speak yet, as my OBC isn't hooked up, nor have we had time to do more than 50-100 miles on the swap thus far, having completed it yesterday afternoon. However, initial impressions are excellent.
Just wanted to update this thread. Got the M535i through smog on the 30th of December. Passed with good numbers for a US 535i on a 150k mile US cat. As to fuel economy, we took a long drive up to Chico (about 3 hours) back in November, averaged 27mpg both ways.derrith wrote:The engine runs as well as it did on the 061 that was in there originally. The nice thing about the 1.3 swap is that the euro 10:1 engine uses the same cam as the m30b35, so while the combustion chamber shape and compression are slightly off, at least it's tuned to the same cam, rather than running the engine on a US 059 ecu tuned for the 8:1 compression and lower duration cam.RobertRO wrote:It is a little bit surprising, since the 179 ECU was tuned for 9:1 compression and slightly different combustion chamber.
With the 179 ECU, does the 10:1 compression engine run smooth and pulls nice throughout the RPM and load ranges? No ping at all? Even in hot weather?
If everything checks all right, then this conversion is a very cool find. I suppose that the fuel economy must have improved, too.
As to fuel economy, I can't speak yet, as my OBC isn't hooked up, nor have we had time to do more than 50-100 miles on the swap thus far, having completed it yesterday afternoon. However, initial impressions are excellent.
The 1.3 ECU should be a plug in to a 1.1 harness if I got my facts straight. Then just have a muffler shop weld a bung for the O2 sensor.pldlnr wrote:I ask because I have an '84 635csi with the euro dirty motor. At some point before I bought it, the harness was changed from 1.0 to motronic 1.1. An 059 ECU was added with an EAT chip. An o2 sensor was never added, but to compensate, Steve Haygood manually adjusted the mixture at the AFM. I just don't like the cobbled together management system and I have been thinking about doing the M1.3 swap.
It sounds like you are getting good results. Let me know when you get the chip and how the set-up responds. Thanks.
I wonder if a 1.3 would be an upgrade for a super eta?
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Bimmerguy2002
- Posts: 11973
- Joined: Oct 03, 2007
- Location: Lodi, California
[quote="Bimmerguy2002"]you just use a 325i ecu in a super eta harness and its 1.3, but it wont do much with that higher rev limit since it has all the eta stuff still on, wimpy cam.[quote]
I'm not so much concerned with top end performance. I have prolly spent less than 5 minutes above 100 mph in my entire life. It is low end smoothness and tip in I'm interested in.
I'm not so much concerned with top end performance. I have prolly spent less than 5 minutes above 100 mph in my entire life. It is low end smoothness and tip in I'm interested in.
Wrong version of 1.1. I find two versions of m30 motronic commonly referenced as "1.1". There's the us spec b34 motronic with an 059 ecu I also see called "1.0a" and there is the first version of the m30b35 engine management with the 150 ecu. The super etas and early m20b25s also got the later version of motronic 1.1 where the ecus are cross-compatible with motronic 1.3.a wrote:The 1.3 ECU should be a plug in to a 1.1 harness if I got my facts straight. Then just have a muffler shop weld a bung for the O2 sensor.pldlnr wrote:I ask because I have an '84 635csi with the euro dirty motor. At some point before I bought it, the harness was changed from 1.0 to motronic 1.1. An 059 ECU was added with an EAT chip. An o2 sensor was never added, but to compensate, Steve Haygood manually adjusted the mixture at the AFM. I just don't like the cobbled together management system and I have been thinking about doing the M1.3 swap.
It sounds like you are getting good results. Let me know when you get the chip and how the set-up responds. Thanks.
I wonder if a 1.3 would be an upgrade for a super eta?
You might get lucky and the drivers have some reserve current capacity in them and might even current limit (which would still probably leave you stranded). However, how long they last remains to be seen. You could add some resistors to the Low-z injectors if you were set on keeping them.bm0p700f wrote:Surely now you have low impedence injoectors runing on a igh impedence injector driver in the ECU. Will it not break?
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mooseheadm5
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- Location: Charlottesville, VA
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Just a small update. The car has been running great for the past few months, and since I also have a 10:1 in my e23, I can compare the difference between 1.0 and 1.3 running the dirty motor. Which is why I'm in the middle of sorting out an e23 fitment 1.3 harness.
Idle quality is sublime compared to 1.0 and general smoothness throughout the rev range is vastly improved. We can run this engine down to 500rpm or so in gear before it starts lugging and accelerate back up to speed perfectly smoothly
Put a Mark D. chip in today to great effect. The car pulls much harder past 5500rpm and the 6800rpm redline comes up real fast. Also, I can break traction on 235/45r17 dunlop sports at will in first gear in the dry.
Idle quality is sublime compared to 1.0 and general smoothness throughout the rev range is vastly improved. We can run this engine down to 500rpm or so in gear before it starts lugging and accelerate back up to speed perfectly smoothly
Put a Mark D. chip in today to great effect. The car pulls much harder past 5500rpm and the 6800rpm redline comes up real fast. Also, I can break traction on 235/45r17 dunlop sports at will in first gear in the dry.
Did you buy the standard b35 EAT? Or is it a custom for the 10:1?
So, do you think the EAT M1.3 clearly pulls harder than the M1.0 w/061 ECU? Can you tell for sure given the weight differecne between the m535i and the E23?
Logan -- this info is greatly appreciated as you are helping me make up my mind to do the swap on the 6.
So, do you think the EAT M1.3 clearly pulls harder than the M1.0 w/061 ECU? Can you tell for sure given the weight differecne between the m535i and the E23?
Logan -- this info is greatly appreciated as you are helping me make up my mind to do the swap on the 6.
I'm running the standard b35 chip for stock b35 injectors as that's what we're running. I didn't think there was much left on the table in terms of tuning for that extra point of compression. We were happy enough with how the 10:1 performed with the stock 1.3 chip, this is just icing on the cake.pldlnr wrote:Did you buy the standard b35 EAT? Or is it a custom for the 10:1?
So, do you think the EAT M1.3 clearly pulls harder than the M1.0 w/061 ECU? Can you tell for sure given the weight differecne between the m535i and the E23?
Logan -- this info is greatly appreciated as you are helping me make up my mind to do the swap on the 6.
I have no experience with an 061 ECU as my e23 was running a 011 with a johnson box which I immediately converted to a US e23 harness with 059 so I could get it through california smog.
It's not necessarily a power difference between the two cars, it's the quality of the engine management. The idle is rock solid on 1.3 and dithers up and down on 1.0. My e23 is also equipped with a lightweight flywheel and between that, the 10:1 compression, and the hot cam, motronic 1.0 is barely able to manage my engine.
There is obvious "stepping" as I pull through the rev range on my e23, and I've tried swapping AFMs, o2 sensors, and the other likely candidates between the two cars to deduce whether it's a part or just Motronic.
I can't recommend it highly enough for a 10:1 motor Paul. Even vs. an 061 with no o2, you're reaping the benefits of years of engine management innovation and it is the best EFI available from the factory for an M30.
Okay, I am sold. I am going to go for it.-
louielouie
- Posts: 480
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- Location: Bothell, Wa
I wasn't happy with the super eta harness when I tried to use it for this purpose. I'd much rather make the harness fit the car than try to force it to fit the engine.louielouie wrote:It's rare to find a B35 to pull some of those parts off at Pull-A-Part around the Puget Sound. There is an '88 528e at the Lakewood PAP and maybe the harness hasn't been cut to pieces.