Is it true that the e30 M3's had a dogleg gear box, the same style that M535i's came with?I heard that you can simply use the gear shifter from the M3 and put it on the M535i and you have yourself a short shifter!
Is this true or false?
Any help appreciated!
Chris
e30 m3 shifter->e28 M535i
I don't know about the E30 M3, but it's true about the other M3s.
All non-M US and Euro E36s had the same shift lever. The US E36 M3 3.0 and 3.2 and the Euro E36 M3 3.0 had that same lever, IIRC.
A slightly shorter lever than that is the Euro E36 M3 3.2 lever. It's the same as the E39 M5 and the E46 M3. I had this lever on my old E28, and I was quite happy with it.
I can't remember where the Z3 levers fit into this, but the shortest of them all I hear is the Z4 lever.
Again, I'm not sure where the E30 M3 lever fits in there, but my guess would be that it's about the same as your stock lever.
HTH,
All non-M US and Euro E36s had the same shift lever. The US E36 M3 3.0 and 3.2 and the Euro E36 M3 3.0 had that same lever, IIRC.
A slightly shorter lever than that is the Euro E36 M3 3.2 lever. It's the same as the E39 M5 and the E46 M3. I had this lever on my old E28, and I was quite happy with it.
I can't remember where the Z3 levers fit into this, but the shortest of them all I hear is the Z4 lever.
Again, I'm not sure where the E30 M3 lever fits in there, but my guess would be that it's about the same as your stock lever.
HTH,
[QUOTE="edshmeen"]Is it true that the e30 M3's had a dogleg gear box, the same style that M535i's came with?I heard that you can simply use the gear shifter from the M3 and put it on the M535i and you have yourself a short shifter!
Is this true or false?
Any help appreciated!
Chris[/QUOTE]
You want the e36 shift lever or the Z3 1.9 shift lever to be a cost effective "short shifter". Both will fit an e28, the 1.9 shifter may require that you bend the shift rod. There's a good article on this that I'll post tonight when I return home from work.
Is this true or false?
Any help appreciated!
Chris[/QUOTE]
You want the e36 shift lever or the Z3 1.9 shift lever to be a cost effective "short shifter". Both will fit an e28, the 1.9 shifter may require that you bend the shift rod. There's a good article on this that I'll post tonight when I return home from work.
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Threeshifter
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
Last week I installed a Z3 shifter in my 85 535i. I like it very much. The Z3 shifter can be fitted as is without bending. I did not bend the shifter. However, ff I did it again I might bend it a little because it is a slight reach in the R,1,3,5 positions but not anything to really complain about. I have my seat back almost to the stop so, if you sit forward more you might have a better fit for the reach.
For the shifter to be tight you it is recommended to replace the other wearing parts. I spend sever hours trying to figure out what parts I needed to replace because there is not any uniform naming between my references and it seems pictures in Bentley do not tell the whole story. Here is a list of the parts that I replaced. Names are using Bentleys terminology:
2 o-rings [TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB]
4 spacers (yellow washers)[TAB]
1 Shift rod bushing[TAB][TAB]
1 Lower shift lever bearing[TAB]
1 Upper shift lever bearing
2 Front console mounts[TAB][TAB]
1 Rear console rubber buffer (not named in Benltey)[TAB]
And of course the z3 sifter lever which has a bushing built into it.
I would have supplied part #s but I am still confused about a couple and do not want to supply the wrong info.
I had a great deal of difficulty with the shifter shaft seal and this discussed in the thread at this site titled Shifter shaft seal or shifter linkage seal removal problems.
Here are two links that I found informational:
http://www.tycksen.com/bmw/tech/mz3_shifter/index.php
This is from e12 site but much applies:
http://www.firstfives.org/faq/shifter/s ... er_faq.htm
For the shifter to be tight you it is recommended to replace the other wearing parts. I spend sever hours trying to figure out what parts I needed to replace because there is not any uniform naming between my references and it seems pictures in Bentley do not tell the whole story. Here is a list of the parts that I replaced. Names are using Bentleys terminology:
2 o-rings [TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB]
4 spacers (yellow washers)[TAB]
1 Shift rod bushing[TAB][TAB]
1 Lower shift lever bearing[TAB]
1 Upper shift lever bearing
2 Front console mounts[TAB][TAB]
1 Rear console rubber buffer (not named in Benltey)[TAB]
And of course the z3 sifter lever which has a bushing built into it.
I would have supplied part #s but I am still confused about a couple and do not want to supply the wrong info.
I had a great deal of difficulty with the shifter shaft seal and this discussed in the thread at this site titled Shifter shaft seal or shifter linkage seal removal problems.
Here are two links that I found informational:
http://www.tycksen.com/bmw/tech/mz3_shifter/index.php
This is from e12 site but much applies:
http://www.firstfives.org/faq/shifter/s ... er_faq.htm
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Threeshifter
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
[QUOTE="Threeshifter"]Last week I installed a Z3 shifter in my 85 535i. I like it very much. The Z3 shifter can be fitted as is without bending. I did not bend the shifter. However, ff I did it again I might bend it a little because it is a slight reach in the R,1,3,5 positions but not anything to really complain about. I have my seat back almost to the stop so, if you sit forward more you might have a better fit for the reach.
For the shifter to be tight you it is recommended to replace the other wearing parts. I spend sever hours trying to figure out what parts I needed to replace because there is not any uniform naming between my references and it seems pictures in Bentley do not tell the whole story. Here is a list of the parts that I replaced. Names are using Bentleys terminology:
2 o-rings [TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB]
4 spacers (yellow washers)[TAB]
1 Shift rod bushing[TAB][TAB]
1 Lower shift lever bearing[TAB]
1 Upper shift lever bearing
2 Front console mounts[TAB][TAB]
1 Rear console rubber buffer (not named in Benltey)[TAB]
And of course the z3 sifter lever which has a bushing built into it.
I would have supplied part #s but I am still confused about a couple and do not want to supply the wrong info.
I had a great deal of difficulty with the shifter shaft seal and this discussed in the thread at this site titled Shifter shaft seal or shifter linkage seal removal problems.
Here are two links that I found informational:
http://www.tycksen.com/bmw/tech/mz3_shifter/index.php
This is from e12 site but much applies:
http://www.firstfives.org/faq/shifter/s ... er_faq.htm [/QUOTE]
You didn't say which Z3 shifter you're using, but the bending is to the shift rod, not the shift lever itself. The shift rod may have to be bent up to clear the guibo, or maybe not, it depends on the length of the lever below the ball.
Based on your description, you have the old style black sheet metal shift platform, not the cast aluminum one. I think the aluminum piece was phased in, but I'm not sure exactly when. My 9/86 build '87 model has the aluminum shift platform which BMW calls the Shift Arm. It's number one in the photo below. The aluminum shift platform has a one piece white nylon bushing, not the two piece of the older sheet metal platform. The shift rod is number ten, which BMW calls the selector rod. On the car, it's straight, not factory bent.
A good article, except for the photos that are broken, is Rod Stygar's on the various shift levers and their respective ratios, and how to change one out. It's pretty thorough, again, except for the non-op photos.
For the shifter to be tight you it is recommended to replace the other wearing parts. I spend sever hours trying to figure out what parts I needed to replace because there is not any uniform naming between my references and it seems pictures in Bentley do not tell the whole story. Here is a list of the parts that I replaced. Names are using Bentleys terminology:
2 o-rings [TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB]
4 spacers (yellow washers)[TAB]
1 Shift rod bushing[TAB][TAB]
1 Lower shift lever bearing[TAB]
1 Upper shift lever bearing
2 Front console mounts[TAB][TAB]
1 Rear console rubber buffer (not named in Benltey)[TAB]
And of course the z3 sifter lever which has a bushing built into it.
I would have supplied part #s but I am still confused about a couple and do not want to supply the wrong info.
I had a great deal of difficulty with the shifter shaft seal and this discussed in the thread at this site titled Shifter shaft seal or shifter linkage seal removal problems.
Here are two links that I found informational:
http://www.tycksen.com/bmw/tech/mz3_shifter/index.php
This is from e12 site but much applies:
http://www.firstfives.org/faq/shifter/s ... er_faq.htm [/QUOTE]
You didn't say which Z3 shifter you're using, but the bending is to the shift rod, not the shift lever itself. The shift rod may have to be bent up to clear the guibo, or maybe not, it depends on the length of the lever below the ball.
Based on your description, you have the old style black sheet metal shift platform, not the cast aluminum one. I think the aluminum piece was phased in, but I'm not sure exactly when. My 9/86 build '87 model has the aluminum shift platform which BMW calls the Shift Arm. It's number one in the photo below. The aluminum shift platform has a one piece white nylon bushing, not the two piece of the older sheet metal platform. The shift rod is number ten, which BMW calls the selector rod. On the car, it's straight, not factory bent.
A good article, except for the photos that are broken, is Rod Stygar's on the various shift levers and their respective ratios, and how to change one out. It's pretty thorough, again, except for the non-op photos.
I don't know about the e30, but I put the e36 M3 shifter in mine, and it is probably about 50% shorter. It's pretty good, but if you have long legs, like me, you might want to bend it a little before you install it. The center resting position is a bit closer to the dash, and can make you reach a little for those shifts.
IMHO it is a good compromise - shortens quite a bit, but retains the drivability.
However, if I were to do it again, I would probably go with the 2.5L Z4 shifter. From my understanding, it sits a little lower, but it has approximately the same ratio as the e36 M3 lever. If you are looking for a VERY short shift, you might want to go with the 3.0L Z4 shifter - but keep in mind, the shorter the shift, the more force is required.
HTH,
IMHO it is a good compromise - shortens quite a bit, but retains the drivability.
However, if I were to do it again, I would probably go with the 2.5L Z4 shifter. From my understanding, it sits a little lower, but it has approximately the same ratio as the e36 M3 lever. If you are looking for a VERY short shift, you might want to go with the 3.0L Z4 shifter - but keep in mind, the shorter the shift, the more force is required.
HTH,
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Threeshifter
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
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stuartinmn
- Posts: 9752
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
- Location: Minneapolis
"The only problem is that it is illegal to not display the shift pattern on gear stick."
Just re-use your existing gearshift knob, or buy a new knob with the proper shift pattern. You can also buy just the little insert with the shift pattern on it as well.
I would agree that it won't make any difference if you have a dog leg transmission, the lever and other parts external to the transmission itself won't care.
Just re-use your existing gearshift knob, or buy a new knob with the proper shift pattern. You can also buy just the little insert with the shift pattern on it as well.
I would agree that it won't make any difference if you have a dog leg transmission, the lever and other parts external to the transmission itself won't care.
[QUOTE="edshmeen"]Ohk thanks shifty, can anyone else confirm this?
The only problem is that it is illegal to not display the shift pattern on gear stick.[/QUOTE]
Where did you come up with that notion?
The federal government may require car makers to have the shift pattern displayed in the car, but shift knobs with a BMW logo or just wood are sold in dealerships nationwide, any owner can remove and change the shift knob without breaking the law. 
The only problem is that it is illegal to not display the shift pattern on gear stick.[/QUOTE]
Where did you come up with that notion?
The federal government may require car makers to have the shift pattern displayed in the car, but shift knobs with a BMW logo or just wood are sold in dealerships nationwide, any owner can remove and change the shift knob without breaking the law. [QUOTE="edshmeen"]Do you guys all have the dogleg box though? I know of alot of people who do those conversions mentioned, 1.9lt z3 being the most common but I havn't had any confirmation of people doing it to the dogleg box (sorry don't know model number).[/QUOTE]
Very few folks have the close ratio transmission in the US, jprobably not more than one in 200 cars, maybe less. E28's with manual trannies aren't the majority either, but more BMW's than most other brands have them. :p
Very few folks have the close ratio transmission in the US, jprobably not more than one in 200 cars, maybe less. E28's with manual trannies aren't the majority either, but more BMW's than most other brands have them. :p
[QUOTE="fastpat"]Where did you come up with that notion? The federal government may require car makers to have the shift pattern displayed in the car, but shift knobs with a BMW logo or just wood are sold in dealerships nationwide, any owner can remove and change the shift knob without breaking the law. [/QUOTE]
Pat,
I think the original poster is from another country. It's a possibility that he can't pass his safety inspection without the proper emblem on the knob. At any rate, he can most definitely use the original knob or get a new knob and proper emblem from the dealer. . . or get a new knob and use the old emblem.
The federal government may require car makers to have the shift pattern displayed in the car, but shift knobs with a BMW logo or just wood are sold in dealerships nationwide, any owner can remove and change the shift knob without breaking the law. [/QUOTE]Pat,
I think the original poster is from another country. It's a possibility that he can't pass his safety inspection without the proper emblem on the knob. At any rate, he can most definitely use the original knob or get a new knob and proper emblem from the dealer. . . or get a new knob and use the old emblem.
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Threeshifter
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
[QUOTE="fastpat"]Where did you come up with that notion? The federal government may require car makers to have the shift pattern displayed in the car, but shift knobs with a BMW logo or just wood are sold in dealerships nationwide, any owner can remove and change the shift knob without breaking the law. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Shifty"]Pat,
I think the original poster is from another country. It's a possibility that he can't pass his safety inspection without the proper emblem on the knob. At any rate, he can most definitely use the original knob or get a new knob and proper emblem from the dealer. . . or get a new knob and use the old emblem.[/QUOTE]
I checked for that, unfortunately he's not listing his approximate location so unless you know him (and I don't) there's no method to detect the country he's in. %)
The federal government may require car makers to have the shift pattern displayed in the car, but shift knobs with a BMW logo or just wood are sold in dealerships nationwide, any owner can remove and change the shift knob without breaking the law. [/QUOTE][QUOTE="Shifty"]Pat,
I think the original poster is from another country. It's a possibility that he can't pass his safety inspection without the proper emblem on the knob. At any rate, he can most definitely use the original knob or get a new knob and proper emblem from the dealer. . . or get a new knob and use the old emblem.[/QUOTE]
I checked for that, unfortunately he's not listing his approximate location so unless you know him (and I don't) there's no method to detect the country he's in. %)
[QUOTE="fastpat"]I checked for that, unfortunately he's not listing his approximate location so unless you know him (and I don't) there's no method to detect the country he's in. %) [/QUOTE]
I checked, too, with no results. But I just assumed he was in another country since he mentioned the gear shift emblem requirement.
I checked, too, with no results. But I just assumed he was in another country since he mentioned the gear shift emblem requirement.
Hey, I used an E36 M3 shifter and just had the selector rod (underneath) shortened by 1/4 inch and that brought the shifter back to center. Otherwise it will be centered forwards a bit and be a reach to the forward gears. It will also kind of throw you off a bit because neutral is not in the middle visually anymore.
15 miuntes at the muffler shop for the job.
15 miuntes at the muffler shop for the job.
I installed the e36 M3 shifter in my e30 and modified nothing in the shift linkage. By the way, it's better to bend the lever than to cut and weld the shift rod, if the alignment isn't perfect you will be miserable with missed shifts.
Here's the OEM e30 lever (above) and the new M3 lever. The e28 lever should be similar, maybe taller and bent slightly more. I tried to line up the pivot ball so that the length above and below was evident. The new lever could stand to be a bit shorter.
I have a couple of others to try, but eventually I'll go with a UUC shift kit on the e28, the 325i is getting the "cost effective" stuff. :p
Here's the OEM e30 lever (above) and the new M3 lever. The e28 lever should be similar, maybe taller and bent slightly more. I tried to line up the pivot ball so that the length above and below was evident. The new lever could stand to be a bit shorter.
I have a couple of others to try, but eventually I'll go with a UUC shift kit on the e28, the 325i is getting the "cost effective" stuff. :p
[QUOTE="fastpat"]I installed the e36 M3 shifter in my e30 and modified nothing in the shift linkage. By the way, it's better to bend the lever than to cut and weld the shift rod, if the alignment isn't perfect you will be miserable with missed shifts.[/QUOTE]
How did you bend it and from what point?
[Edit by Jaghaath on [TIME]1109873357[/TIME]]
How did you bend it and from what point?
[Edit by Jaghaath on [TIME]1109873357[/TIME]]
I have the Z4 and it is a slightly shorter throw than the M3. It's also very stiff. It may be apples to oranges but Julius' eta/262 mit M3 shifts much, much smother than my Z4 shifter on a 535i/265.
My current shift pattern(distance from 1st to 2nd) fits in the space of the stock 1st to neutral distance, easy.
Also, I think UUC sells a bent shift connector rod that puts the forces back in line with the shift selector. I think this would reduce the force needed to shift somewhat.
dj
[Edit by djazz on [TIME]1109893695[/TIME]]
[Edit by djazz on [TIME]1109893859[/TIME]]
My current shift pattern(distance from 1st to 2nd) fits in the space of the stock 1st to neutral distance, easy.
Also, I think UUC sells a bent shift connector rod that puts the forces back in line with the shift selector. I think this would reduce the force needed to shift somewhat.
dj
[Edit by djazz on [TIME]1109893695[/TIME]]
[Edit by djazz on [TIME]1109893859[/TIME]]
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Threeshifter
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
If you bend the shifter, you will want to bend it between the ball and the handle; in the picture posted above between the ball and the yello/orange/tannish section. If you want to bend it you will want more bend in the direction that it is already bent- unless your right arm is very long.
You probably could put the shifter in, then sit in the car and check the feel in a number of gears. If you need to bend it, or bend it more, just disconnect it and bend it before finishing the assembly and dropping the car back to the ground.
You probably could put the shifter in, then sit in the car and check the feel in a number of gears. If you need to bend it, or bend it more, just disconnect it and bend it before finishing the assembly and dropping the car back to the ground.
[QUOTE="fastpat"]I installed the e36 M3 shifter in my e30 and modified nothing in the shift linkage. By the way, it's better to bend the lever than to cut and weld the shift rod, if the alignment isn't perfect you will be miserable with missed shifts.
Here's the OEM e30 lever (above) and the new M3 lever. The e28 lever should be similar, maybe taller and bent slightly more. I tried to line up the pivot ball so that the length above and below was evident. The new lever could stand to be a bit shorter.
[/QUOTE]
I dont know, I dont feel comfortable reefing on that lever enoug to get it to bend. I know of a few people who've cut the linkage and never heard of a problem. It's a pretty basic trick to line it up straight. I also had the hollow part "filled in" with a separate rod. This strengthened it and, as a side benefit, adds a bit of heft which smooths out the shift action. Rogue angineering charges around $100 for their own version of the "weighted shift linkage".
PS: I think the E28 lever has more bend to it than the E30 one.
[Edit by Cacatfish on [TIME]1109923780[/TIME]]
Here's the OEM e30 lever (above) and the new M3 lever. The e28 lever should be similar, maybe taller and bent slightly more. I tried to line up the pivot ball so that the length above and below was evident. The new lever could stand to be a bit shorter.
[/QUOTE]I dont know, I dont feel comfortable reefing on that lever enoug to get it to bend. I know of a few people who've cut the linkage and never heard of a problem. It's a pretty basic trick to line it up straight. I also had the hollow part "filled in" with a separate rod. This strengthened it and, as a side benefit, adds a bit of heft which smooths out the shift action. Rogue angineering charges around $100 for their own version of the "weighted shift linkage".
PS: I think the E28 lever has more bend to it than the E30 one.
[Edit by Cacatfish on [TIME]1109923780[/TIME]]