Has anyone done the conversions necessary to run B20 ++ to a 524?
I sold my 524 to ChrisM who has made it into a B E A S T.
but recently bought a golf diesel beater to go back and forth to work.....thinking about going the bio route with this too.
let's talk about this -- renewable resource, NOTHING from other countries (opec).
thoughts?
524TD / bio-diesel and other stuff
Rev. Al Taylor is the BMW biodiesel master.
http://www.altaylorsportscars.com/
http://www.altaylorsportscars.com/
cool - I have seen some of these links.
also check out:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
Biodiesel has a higher cetane rating than regular diesel - so more power!?
cool
also check out:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
Biodiesel has a higher cetane rating than regular diesel - so more power!?
cool
William, you might also get in touch with Robert Patton here in Altanta. Besides being a great track instructor and accomplished Club racer, he really knows about the diesel world. Although he's partial to Dodge/Cummins Turbo Diesels, he can probably answer any questions you have. Contact him at [email protected], or visit the Turbo Diesel Register: http://www.turbodieselregister.com/
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Tim in N FL
- Posts: 7392
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
- Location: North Central Florida, USA
- Contact:
I may just have to buy a 524td afterall someday. ChrisM, what have you done to turn the 524td into a beast? I'd love to know. Just for grins, I did an autrader.com search and found that there only 7 listed in the U.S. and they were not exactly offered at giveaway prices either ($4000-6300 !!!???)
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchres ... 1981&isp=y
To tell the truth, I'd LOVE to own a more modern BMW diesel. I wish that BMW NA would consider importing them soon, so I can buy one AFTER they depreciate a bit. I guess they got burned on the 80's diesel experiment (524td) and have not had the marketing #s to support revisiting that aspect of the market again. I have some colleagues in Europe who own bimmer diesels and I must say they really scoot!
I have been wanting to know more about Willie Nelson's latest project...Bio-Diesel.
Thanks for posting some links.
Cheers,
Tim
[Edit by Tim in N FL on [TIME]1107137860[/TIME]]
[Edit by Tim in N FL on [TIME]1107138070[/TIME]]
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchres ... 1981&isp=y
To tell the truth, I'd LOVE to own a more modern BMW diesel. I wish that BMW NA would consider importing them soon, so I can buy one AFTER they depreciate a bit. I guess they got burned on the 80's diesel experiment (524td) and have not had the marketing #s to support revisiting that aspect of the market again. I have some colleagues in Europe who own bimmer diesels and I must say they really scoot!
I have been wanting to know more about Willie Nelson's latest project...Bio-Diesel.
Thanks for posting some links.
Cheers,
Tim
[Edit by Tim in N FL on [TIME]1107137860[/TIME]]
[Edit by Tim in N FL on [TIME]1107138070[/TIME]]
[QUOTE="William"]Has anyone done the conversions necessary to run B20 ++ to a 524?
I sold my 524 to ChrisM who has made it into a B E A S T.
but recently bought a golf diesel beater to go back and forth to work.....thinking about going the bio route with this too.
let's talk about this -- renewable resource, NOTHING from other countries (opec).
thoughts?[/QUOTE]
When I had ordered and was waiting on my diesel pickup to arrive, I did a lot of reading on this subject, both via print media and online. Energy independence isn't the only reason to make biodiesel, you get rid of a mostly wasted resource, cooking oil, and turn it into a very low polution fuel.
Biodiesel runs in most diesels built within the last 30 years, so there's no conversion required. It just has to be filtered to the same level as petrodiesel.
Check out Biodiesel Now Forum
The National Biodiesel Board (of course there's one).
and
From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank which has a ton of information for beginners (which I am) and explains the difference between biodiesel and SVO systems, and why the latter are much more complicated, but less messy.
There are groups around the country that are slowly spreading the word on how to "roll your own" biodiesel, including a very active one in the SF Bay area that has periodic classes on making your own diesel.
[Edit by fastpat on [TIME]1107141842[/TIME]]
I sold my 524 to ChrisM who has made it into a B E A S T.
but recently bought a golf diesel beater to go back and forth to work.....thinking about going the bio route with this too.
let's talk about this -- renewable resource, NOTHING from other countries (opec).
thoughts?[/QUOTE]
When I had ordered and was waiting on my diesel pickup to arrive, I did a lot of reading on this subject, both via print media and online. Energy independence isn't the only reason to make biodiesel, you get rid of a mostly wasted resource, cooking oil, and turn it into a very low polution fuel.
Biodiesel runs in most diesels built within the last 30 years, so there's no conversion required. It just has to be filtered to the same level as petrodiesel.
Check out Biodiesel Now Forum
The National Biodiesel Board (of course there's one).
and
From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank which has a ton of information for beginners (which I am) and explains the difference between biodiesel and SVO systems, and why the latter are much more complicated, but less messy.
There are groups around the country that are slowly spreading the word on how to "roll your own" biodiesel, including a very active one in the SF Bay area that has periodic classes on making your own diesel.
[Edit by fastpat on [TIME]1107141842[/TIME]]
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Rich in WI
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
There should be no issue with running B20 in any diesel engine. At 20% content it just won't make a difference.
Where you start seeing issues is at the 50 percent and greater concentrations (maybe a bit less for newer cars).
In Madison, there is a bio-diesel group I run into now and then. One guy is running 100% biodiesel in his TDI Beetle.
The key issue to watch with biodiesel is your rubber bits. If in doubt, convert over to viton pieces. You may also experience more gelling at higher temperatures, though that can be handled with additives.
I'm looking at getting a diesel for my next truck, but only if Toyota puts one out. They've had diesels in their trucks for years internationally. I can't wait for the U.S. to clean up it's diesel act; coming in 2006.
Rich in WI
Where you start seeing issues is at the 50 percent and greater concentrations (maybe a bit less for newer cars).
In Madison, there is a bio-diesel group I run into now and then. One guy is running 100% biodiesel in his TDI Beetle.
The key issue to watch with biodiesel is your rubber bits. If in doubt, convert over to viton pieces. You may also experience more gelling at higher temperatures, though that can be handled with additives.
I'm looking at getting a diesel for my next truck, but only if Toyota puts one out. They've had diesels in their trucks for years internationally. I can't wait for the U.S. to clean up it's diesel act; coming in 2006.
Rich in WI
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Rich in WI
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
William - you may be able to run straight grease with your Golf. What year is it? The older diesel versions from the 80's can handle straight grease.
But I've also seen a Mark III Jetta TDI with a slick conversion kit that lets you run grease. The key is starting and ending your drive on diesel/biodiesel. A separate tank holds the grease and it gets warmed up with engine coolant. At a given temp, you can switch over. It's critical to end your run on diesel in order to wash out the grease. You don't want it getting solidified in your fuel lines.
The Jetta I saw had a kit that costs about $800. It was the cleanest greaser conversion I've ever seen. Nice shiny tank in the trunk, without taking up too much room. I think the suppier of the kit is on the Internet, but I couldn't tell you the name.
Rich in WI
But I've also seen a Mark III Jetta TDI with a slick conversion kit that lets you run grease. The key is starting and ending your drive on diesel/biodiesel. A separate tank holds the grease and it gets warmed up with engine coolant. At a given temp, you can switch over. It's critical to end your run on diesel in order to wash out the grease. You don't want it getting solidified in your fuel lines.
The Jetta I saw had a kit that costs about $800. It was the cleanest greaser conversion I've ever seen. Nice shiny tank in the trunk, without taking up too much room. I think the suppier of the kit is on the Internet, but I couldn't tell you the name.
Rich in WI
[QUOTE="Rich in WI"]There should be no issue with running B20 in any diesel engine. At 20% content it just won't make a difference.
Where you start seeing issues is at the 50 percent and greater concentrations (maybe a bit less for newer cars).
In Madison, there is a bio-diesel group I run into now and then. One guy is running 100% biodiesel in his TDI Beetle.
The key issue to watch with biodiesel is your rubber bits. If in doubt, convert over to viton pieces. You may also experience more gelling at higher temperatures, though that can be handled with additives.
I'm looking at getting a diesel for my next truck, but only if Toyota puts one out. They've had diesels in their trucks for years internationally. I can't wait for the U.S. to clean up it's diesel act; coming in 2006.
William - you may be able to run straight grease with your Golf. What year is it? The older diesel versions from the 80's can handle straight grease.
But I've also seen a Mark III Jetta TDI with a slick conversion kit that lets you run grease. The key is starting and ending your drive on diesel/biodiesel. A separate tank holds the grease and it gets warmed up with engine coolant. At a given temp, you can switch over. It's critical to end your run on diesel in order to wash out the grease. You don't want it getting solidified in your fuel lines.
The Jetta I saw had a kit that costs about $800. It was the cleanest greaser conversion I've ever seen. Nice shiny tank in the trunk, without taking up too much room. I think the suppier of the kit is on the Internet, but I couldn't tell you the name.
Rich in WI[/QUOTE]
The advocates of SVO (straight vegetable oil) tout it because there's no alcohol requirement , no mixing, no heating, and no residue. The complicating factor is as you mention, the need to heat the oil and the need to start and shut down on petrodiesel.
In the long run, a blend of petrodiesel and biodiesel is likely to be used by all but the most diehard do-it-yourself fuel makers. B100 biodiesel sell for almost $4.00 a gallon in the SF Bay area, and I'd have to travel up to Berkeley to be able to fill up on it.
Where you start seeing issues is at the 50 percent and greater concentrations (maybe a bit less for newer cars).
In Madison, there is a bio-diesel group I run into now and then. One guy is running 100% biodiesel in his TDI Beetle.
The key issue to watch with biodiesel is your rubber bits. If in doubt, convert over to viton pieces. You may also experience more gelling at higher temperatures, though that can be handled with additives.
I'm looking at getting a diesel for my next truck, but only if Toyota puts one out. They've had diesels in their trucks for years internationally. I can't wait for the U.S. to clean up it's diesel act; coming in 2006.
William - you may be able to run straight grease with your Golf. What year is it? The older diesel versions from the 80's can handle straight grease.
But I've also seen a Mark III Jetta TDI with a slick conversion kit that lets you run grease. The key is starting and ending your drive on diesel/biodiesel. A separate tank holds the grease and it gets warmed up with engine coolant. At a given temp, you can switch over. It's critical to end your run on diesel in order to wash out the grease. You don't want it getting solidified in your fuel lines.
The Jetta I saw had a kit that costs about $800. It was the cleanest greaser conversion I've ever seen. Nice shiny tank in the trunk, without taking up too much room. I think the suppier of the kit is on the Internet, but I couldn't tell you the name.
Rich in WI[/QUOTE]
The advocates of SVO (straight vegetable oil) tout it because there's no alcohol requirement , no mixing, no heating, and no residue. The complicating factor is as you mention, the need to heat the oil and the need to start and shut down on petrodiesel.
In the long run, a blend of petrodiesel and biodiesel is likely to be used by all but the most diehard do-it-yourself fuel makers. B100 biodiesel sell for almost $4.00 a gallon in the SF Bay area, and I'd have to travel up to Berkeley to be able to fill up on it.
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Rich in WI
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
The biodiesel guys in Madison are of the homebrew variety. We do have a local farm coop that sells B5 and B20.
The homebrewers say they can do a gallon of biodiesel for $0.50 ot $0.75 (methanol, lye, heat etc). That cost does not include the equipment to do the filtering, mixing and heating.
The Jetta kit I mentioned above, for SVO, also has a built in filtration mechanism. This means you really can pull up to a restaurant, and drive away. Very nice. When I compare that to some of the rigs I've seen for collecting, filtering, and using the SVO in the car, it's like night and day.
I'll be up at the Mid-West Renewable Energy Association fair this June for work. There's always a good group of biodiesel/SVO vehicles around. I'll snap some pics and share them with the board.
Rich in WI
The homebrewers say they can do a gallon of biodiesel for $0.50 ot $0.75 (methanol, lye, heat etc). That cost does not include the equipment to do the filtering, mixing and heating.
The Jetta kit I mentioned above, for SVO, also has a built in filtration mechanism. This means you really can pull up to a restaurant, and drive away. Very nice. When I compare that to some of the rigs I've seen for collecting, filtering, and using the SVO in the car, it's like night and day.
I'll be up at the Mid-West Renewable Energy Association fair this June for work. There's always a good group of biodiesel/SVO vehicles around. I'll snap some pics and share them with the board.
Rich in WI
[QUOTE="Rich in WI"]The biodiesel guys in Madison are of the homebrew variety. We do have a local farm coop that sells B5 and B20.
The homebrewers say they can do a gallon of biodiesel for $0.50 ot $0.75 (methanol, lye, heat etc). That cost does not include the equipment to do the filtering, mixing and heating.
The Jetta kit I mentioned above, for SVO, also has a built in filtration mechanism. This means you really can pull up to a restaurant, and drive away. Very nice. When I compare that to some of the rigs I've seen for collecting, filtering, and using the SVO in the car, it's like night and day.
I'll be up at the Mid-West Renewable Energy Association fair this June for work. There's always a good group of biodiesel/SVO vehicles around. I'll snap some pics and share them with the board.
Rich in WI[/QUOTE]
Most SVO rigged vehicles need virgin juice, the ph is wrong on used oil, and it's handling is unpredictable. That's what makes it better for biodiesel brewing, since you're titrating the individual batch of used oil for ph, you can adjust your catalyst (the lye) to compensate and get a good end product.
The homebrewers say they can do a gallon of biodiesel for $0.50 ot $0.75 (methanol, lye, heat etc). That cost does not include the equipment to do the filtering, mixing and heating.
The Jetta kit I mentioned above, for SVO, also has a built in filtration mechanism. This means you really can pull up to a restaurant, and drive away. Very nice. When I compare that to some of the rigs I've seen for collecting, filtering, and using the SVO in the car, it's like night and day.
I'll be up at the Mid-West Renewable Energy Association fair this June for work. There's always a good group of biodiesel/SVO vehicles around. I'll snap some pics and share them with the board.
Rich in WI[/QUOTE]
Most SVO rigged vehicles need virgin juice, the ph is wrong on used oil, and it's handling is unpredictable. That's what makes it better for biodiesel brewing, since you're titrating the individual batch of used oil for ph, you can adjust your catalyst (the lye) to compensate and get a good end product.
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Rich in WI
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
I can certainly see the benefits of using virgin oil. But everyone I know who does SVO or biodiesel in Madison uses restaurant grease. They even have a guide as to which restaurants have the best grease. The value is in using a cheap (free) resource from a local source. For a commercial biodiesel producer, I'd think they'd want to use virgin oil. It's too bad, really. By using the used oil, the oil does double duty and increases its value. I predict that within 10 years used restaurant grease will become an actual commodity with value as opposed to the current waste product that restaurants have to pay to get rid of now.
Rich
Rich
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Tim in N FL
- Posts: 7392
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
- Location: North Central Florida, USA
- Contact:
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Rich in WI
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
Ya, I'm waiting for the U.S. to catch up with the rest of the world in terms of diesel quality. The wife is making noises about wanting a diesel "1" series at some point in the future. I tell her to marry someone with money.
I'm a practical treehugger. Heck, I cut down trees and burn them for heat (but with a hug first). We need solutions that people can buy into. I'm convinced that alternative fuels for cars must emphasize the performance benefits over environmental concerns for widespread adoption.
Rich
I'm a practical treehugger. Heck, I cut down trees and burn them for heat (but with a hug first). We need solutions that people can buy into. I'm convinced that alternative fuels for cars must emphasize the performance benefits over environmental concerns for widespread adoption.
Rich
