Miller War Chip anyone??

ecartoys · Post by **ecartoys** » May 05, 2009 1:47 PM

Well, we have decided to carry the War chip and Gen III MAF kits.

For me I don't see any other way out here with smog requirements in Cali. I was going into the Megasquirt until we hit the bumps on the knock box and auto tranny ECUs on the E23 745i.
Since I am already running the MAF the War Chip seems to be able to offer much better fine tuning than the Split Second box plus the ability to switch tunes. I just hope I can get the car ready for smog next month.

Anyway, here's the link to the marketing schpeel - http://www.millerperformancecars.com/war-chip.html.

The short to this is that with the War chip you can store 4 tunes with the ability to switch them with an external selector switch. You also have access into editing the fuel, timing, RPM, O2 sensor areas on the factory base maps.

I will post more info when I get mine installed.

BadM535i · Post by **BadM535i** » May 05, 2009 4:56 PM

Link didn't work so I fixed it for ya.....

http://www.millerperformancecars.com/war-chip.html

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » May 05, 2009 5:30 PM

Yes. Very interested. Discount?

russc · Post by **russc** » May 05, 2009 5:31 PM

If you would have showed me that product 2 yrs ago, I would have bought it, but MS makes that mute.

Nice stuff though.

RussC

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » May 05, 2009 5:37 PM

russc wrote:I would have bought it, but MS makes that moot.

Fixed it for you.

Does this do anything that the MS does not do, or does MS do anything that the WAR chip doesn't do? I know that the MS can do all sorts of silly stuff, but if the price is right the chip is a good alternative to making connectors and such for, say, my 325ti.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » May 05, 2009 5:40 PM

Ultimately MS is a better system in my opinion. I like MAP based injection, but the WAR chip looks like it could do what most of us need it to without the giant pain in the ass and steep learning curve that comes with standalone injection.

Brad D. · Post by **Brad D.** » May 05, 2009 6:27 PM

As far as I know it has no way of doing any sort of datalogging. That right there is almost a deal breaker. While it allows the use of MAF, I would prefer it be speed density. However, for the price it is an interesting alternative that, like Dan said, doesn't have the super steep learning curve of MS.

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » May 05, 2009 6:41 PM

I already have a MS built, but have not tested it on anything. I don't know if the war chip can deal with vanos or with add on wideband. The info is not complete on their site. I plan to bring the M5 back to life with the MS I have built, but need to read the FAQ first. I though this might be a cheater way to dump the AFM, since ITBs are notoriously difficult to use with speed density (though the hybrid Alpha-N should solve that problem.)

Brad D. · Post by **Brad D.** » May 05, 2009 7:18 PM

I think you'll be golden on your M5 with the blended alpha-n setup. It does seem that the info on the war chip is mysteriously incomplete. I never mentions anything about analog inputs (wideband) or the ability to datalog.

George · Post by **George** » May 05, 2009 8:17 PM

Big Bronze Rim wrote: It never mentions anything about analog inputs (wideband) or the ability to datalog.

Thats because there isn't any.

ecartoys · Post by **ecartoys** » May 05, 2009 9:15 PM

thesixerkid wrote:
Big Bronze Rim wrote: It never mentions anything about analog inputs (wideband) or the ability to datalog.
Thats because there isn't any.

The easiest way to explain this is that it is not a standalone ECU or piggyback. It is just a tool to let you fine tune your factory ECU settings plus letting you choose from 4 different tunes on an external switch.

Price for the chip with the external 4 tunes switch is $350. If you guys want to do a group buy I would be happy to put one together with discount however I am bound by MAP so it will all have to be done outside of the posting on the forum.

I agree that MS is the best but I can't get it to talk to the knock box and tranny ECU so it is not going to work for me.
With this it is all plug n play if you don't want to mess with tuning or you can tune the heck out of it.

Going back to the top of this post. On my E23 745i with AFM, to get the car to boost with proper Air Fuel my idle needs to be ridiculously rich at 11-11.2 with WOT in the high 10s. It is pendulum curve and there is nothing you can do about it UNLESS you get to use the War chip to adjust the factory setting to where it needs to be. It is basically a Motronic editior with all the tables defined and allow you to make changes to the fuel, timing, rpm and more. The best thing for me is that I get to keep all the factory safety features from the knock box.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » May 05, 2009 9:53 PM

Help me understand how this works. For instance, on my 745i stock ecu, how would I tune for more boost? (Boost controller aside) Does it have maps that you can edit? Does it come loaded with the stock settings, so I can see what the timing maps are from the factory?

Brad D. · Post by **Brad D.** » May 05, 2009 10:38 PM

It's basically a hex editor with all of the bin locations predetermined so it allows you to go in and adjust fuel maps, timing maps, injector k values etc until your hearts content. It is a really sweet deal but it does have its drawbacks. You would definitely want to invest in something like the Innovate LM-1/2 so you can datalog on it externally. Otherwise you are shooting in the dark.

ecartoys · Post by **ecartoys** » May 05, 2009 11:02 PM

Ditto on what BBR said except that the last time I saw one of these in action on my car the software is realtime.

You get to see what and where the car is reading on the map while you are driving. That allows you to make changes with the help of your wideband even if you don't have a datalogging wideband so it is not quite shooting in the dark. As far as I can remember the changes that you make is realtime too because we did not stop and restart the car each time Dan made changes.

What you get is the base tune from the factory and you work it from there. I have not seen all the software yet as he is not finished with the 013 ECU but I was told access to the tranny ECU is also available - shift point and etc. This I believe is only going to be available on the advance version which is not release yet. Currently there is the lite and Basic version only. The good thing is that upgrade is a matter of download.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » May 05, 2009 11:27 PM

It's set up like MS then? How high do the stock fuel/timing maps go as far as boost is concerned? Or would I just change the y-axis value?

ecartoys wrote: I have not seen all the software yet as he is not finished with the 013 ECU but I was told access to the tranny ECU is also available - shift point and etc.

So, shift points could be changed and saved as 1/4 of the tunes?

russc · Post by **russc** » May 06, 2009 12:04 AM

Your editing the map value for fuel trim. The basic is that the value in the map location fro fuel is 0 trim for a value of 128d. And change higher or lower trims fuel from the load calculation in the ECU. So, a value of 64d trims fuel in half, a value of 172d add 50% more fuel. Timing works the same way, except it trims timing based on 0deg BTDC. Your just editing the existing VE maps inside the stock ECU.

RussC

grsmonkey wrote:It's set up like MS then? How high do the stock fuel/timing maps go as far as boost is concerned? Or would I just change the y-axis value?

ecartoys wrote: I have not seen all the software yet as he is not finished with the 013 ECU but I was told access to the tranny ECU is also available - shift point and etc.
So, shift points could be changed and saved as 1/4 of the tunes?

ecartoys · Post by **ecartoys** » May 06, 2009 1:38 AM

grsmonkey wrote:It's set up like MS then? How high do the stock fuel/timing maps go as far as boost is concerned? Or would I just change the y-axis value?

ecartoys wrote: I have not seen all the software yet as he is not finished with the 013 ECU but I was told access to the tranny ECU is also available - shift point and etc.
So, shift points could be changed and saved as 1/4 of the tunes?

When we were digging into the 013 to find connections between the knock box, tranny and engine we realized that there are many maps on the knock box and tranny. My understanding is if those maps can be located it can be read and edited. I am getting the advance kit when it is available but as far as I can tell Miller is just scratching the surface with War chip in terms of accessing Motronic ECU. What it does is opening up the mystery and hopefully it will get people to research and come up with new maps and etc. Kind of like open source software.

Anyway, those who would like to try one please pm me or email me direct.

Franchise · Post by **Franchise** » Jun 03, 2009 5:40 AM

i read 2 different things and am confused, does this chip need MAF or can it work with a stock 535?

russc · Post by **russc** » Jun 03, 2009 11:27 AM

No, you don't need a MAF. Its editing the stock ECU so you can do just about anything with it with stock FI system.

RussC

Franchise wrote:i read 2 different things and am confused, does this chip need MAF or can it work with a stock 535?

ecartoys · Post by **ecartoys** » Jun 03, 2009 12:42 PM

russc wrote:No, you don't need a MAF. Its editing the stock ECU so you can do just about anything with it with stock FI system.

RussC

Franchise wrote:i read 2 different things and am confused, does this chip need MAF or can it work with a stock 535?

Yes. You do not need to have the MAF kit to use the War chip. You can add the MAF at any time, all you need to do is download the files for the MAF kit to the War chip and you are all set to go for more tweaking if you wish.

I am testing the 179 War chip on an E32 at this time and I have to say the software is barely scratching the possibilities of the ECU.

Franchise · Post by **Franchise** » Jun 03, 2009 1:53 PM

would a MAF offer better performance? (sorry if its a noob question) i'm new to the M30 world, and am looking to purchase an E28 535

the 535 i'm looking at has a cam, intake, 3.73 and it has a dinan chip right now.

i started looking into different chips/tuners because i know the dinan chip isnt progged for the cam.

this WAR chip sounds pretty damn sweet to me, i'd love to have different settings for different uses

ecartoys · Post by **ecartoys** » Jun 03, 2009 2:48 PM

Franchise wrote:would a MAF offer better performance? (sorry if its a noob question) i'm new to the M30 world, and am looking to purchase an E28 535

the 535 i'm looking at has a cam, intake, 3.73 and it has a dinan chip right now.

i started looking into different chips/tuners because i know the dinan chip isnt progged for the cam.

this WAR chip sounds pretty damn sweet to me, i'd love to have different settings for different uses

Yes. The MAF provides a noticeable difference in terms of throttle response and low to mid range. I believe there is a dyno chart showing the difference. You also get a $50 discount when you buy both. If you are in the US, currently I have these in stock and also have the files for the 179 in AFM, MAF and Boosted in both AFM and MAF.

PM me your email address and I will send the dyno charts to you.

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » Jun 03, 2009 2:49 PM

Any chance of them doing an M5 chip?

ecartoys · Post by **ecartoys** » Jun 03, 2009 3:32 PM

Currently I have the 179, 059, 013, 055 and 173 files.

Full software for the 055 is not done yet. It should be done in about a week. Currently it is only base tune with 2 MAF tunes.

Franchise · Post by **Franchise** » Jun 03, 2009 10:46 PM

Pm'ed you for the Dyno charts ecartoys

Franchise · Post by **Franchise** » Jun 04, 2009 12:32 AM

here is the dyno graph ecars sent me, it was also posted on the miller website.

and if anyone needs an image host/uploader www.hugeup.com is a good free site that my friend owns. it includes codes for html, forum, thumbnails and full versions

///ARINUTS... · Post by **///ARINUTS...** » Jun 04, 2009 12:58 AM

Some time ago, there was a guy who tried to use a MAP sensor instead of the AFM and used an Apexi SAFC Air Flow Converter. He got to a point then stopped because that APEXi thing could only tune a few points.

If I remember correctly

This W.A.R. might be the answer.

So that being Said, could one use the signal from a MAP sensor and feed the ECU's AFM input to get proper fueling? ( along with tuning for larger injectors ) Now that you can "tune" the ECU with this W.A.R. chip?

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » Jun 04, 2009 10:30 AM

Nice gains, but these graphs show the dyno runs weren't even done on the same car in the same year

That seems a little fishy to me. I know they have a good rep, but this type of dyno chart is always suspect. Why not two runs and simply swap hardware really quickly?

ecartoys · Post by **ecartoys** » Jun 04, 2009 10:58 AM

mooseheadm5 wrote:Nice gains, but these graphs show the dyno runs weren't even done on the same car in the same year
That seems a little fishy to me. I know they have a good rep, but this type of dyno chart is always suspect. Why not two runs and simply swap hardware really quickly?

I think the problem is the GenIII MAF did not come out until this year. The baseline was done on a stock vehicle long time ago. I believe I can get the original MAF conversion kit dyno that directly compares with this stock vehicle. I will try to dig it up.

The original MAF kit was a clumsy kit with Split Second and Perfect Power parts. Second version was the first stand alone MAF only conversion with the chip using Ford sensor. GenIII is the latest version with direct plug in using Bosch sensor.

I will have a turbo 179 War Chip with MAF dyno soon that is going to be done on an E32. However I do not have a baseline on the car.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jun 04, 2009 11:55 AM

///ARINUTS... wrote:Some time ago, there was a guy who tried to use a MAP sensor instead of the AFM and used an Apexi SAFC Air Flow Converter. He got to a point then stopped because that APEXi thing could only tune a few points.

It was a Modern Performance MAF sensor conversion and it was me -

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/269576/5

I belive that I ran out of injector not points. My NA M30 B34 made 220 RWHP with the MAF and APEXi.

That was six years ago.

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

Miller War Chip anyone??

Miller War Chip anyone??