MS2 Help

[bmw4aaron]

Back when I was looking into doing spark with fuel with my MSII I found massive posts on the e30 boards about running bmw coil packs from M50/60, or even using the dizzy cap/rotor from the M20/M30 setup. I can't for the life of me find this information anymore.

The dizzy on my wifes 323i euro craps out intermittently, providing no spark or tach. I want to either swap it over to a front mount dizzy cap or run wasted spark using BMW coil packs. I know i'll need 6 coil drivers but I have no idea how to wire this up.

Anyone have the info for this?

[George]

Interested in this info as well. Where's Peter?

[Brad D.]

Well, to run wasted spark you only need three coil drivers, one of which is already in place. If you are not already, I highly suggest you use the 60-2 trigger wheel from the later m20. This should be a good guide as how to wire on the board and the packs.

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread ... sted+spark

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread ... sted+spark

Most all of the info is on e30tech.

[FirstFives Dictator]

I'm here.
I don't recommend wasted spark as a first timer project. Wasted spark applications are much more likely to generate noise etc. See Bruno's experience.

Aaron and I spoke and emailed and I suggested he lock down distributor like I did and do a single coil application to start.

Just remove the weights and put a washer under the shaft screw.

What would really be nice is if he used an extrenal ignition driver located next to coil. Then the wiring becomes much less critical as far as shielding (see Bruno's wasted spark experience). One of my E30 plug and play turbo customers is using Summit's generic answer to MSD box and it works great. Cheap too.

[Russianblue]

Peter, where is the link to Bruno's wasted spark experiment, if you don't mind?

also, when you talk about a coil with integrated driver are you talking about something like this?

http://www.034motorsport.com/product_in ... cts_id=277

finally, would you mind terribly elaborating on the 'locked down distributor' with removed weights and washer? ...or pointing me in the direction i can read about it?

i plan to move to wasted spark fairly soon, and want to make sure i do my homework before hand.

[FirstFives Dictator]

Peter, where is the link to Bruno's wasted spark experiment, if you don't mind?

also, when you talk about a coil with integrated driver are you talking about something like this?

http://www.034motorsport.com/product_in ... cts_id=277

finally, would you mind terribly elaborating on the 'locked down distributor' with removed weights and washer? ...or pointing me in the direction i can read about it?

i plan to move to wasted spark fairly soon, and want to make sure i do my homework before hand.

The thread is somewhere in this forum. Dave Read called me from the track few months ago to ask me "what is a reset?"
I walked him and Bruno through some troubleshooting ideas; it sounded like they were able to get the car running well enough to enjoy the weekend. I got the impression Bruno had to really fight with it to get it to work correctly.

That's why I don't recommend wasted spark for those who don't need it.

The e28 rotor and cap will support 18 lbs of boost, no problem. Why do you want to go to wasted spark?

[Russianblue]

my reasons are probably not worth much but alas,

1. it replaces a 'wear' part
2. i am trying to eliminate sources of dirt/dust etc (lame, i know)
3. reputed to provide a slight performance gain
4. from a macro perspective, it would SEEM as though a direct electrical connection sans moving contacts/parts would be more dependable once dialed in
5. it would SEEM as though spark energy delivered per firing event would/could be more consistent with a direct connection to the IGBT.

Please let me know if you think i am off base!

[FirstFives Dictator]

my reasons are probably not worth much but alas,

1. it replaces a 'wear' part
2. i am trying to eliminate sources of dirt/dust etc (lame, i know)
3. reputed to provide a slight performance gain
4. from a macro perspective, it would SEEM as though a direct electrical connection sans moving contacts/parts would be more dependable once dialed in
5. it would SEEM as though spark energy delivered per firing event would/could be more consistent with a direct connection to the IGBT.

Please let me know if you think i am off base!

I think these are all true, but 4 and 5 are minimal at the boost levels most folks are running.

I'm not sure it's worth the trouble unless you are running 20+ lbs of boost.

[Jeremy]

finally, would you mind terribly elaborating on the 'locked down distributor' with removed weights and washer? ...or pointing me in the direction i can read about it?

i plan to move to wasted spark fairly soon, and want to make sure i do my homework before hand.

Locking down the distributor is only required for vehicles with mechanical ignition advance, like Peter's L-Jet e12. You need to stop the mechanical advance so that the Megasquirt can control the timing electronically. It's not necessary for cars that came with Motronic.

I agree with Peter and would also recommend against going to coil packs right off the bat. Mild to moderate boost can be very successfully ignited with a standard cap, rotor, and coil. Considering that they're a 75k mile part for the most part, I wouldn't consider moving to something much more complicated to be a big gain. Megasquirt will give you enough to learn and figure out without tossing that into the puzzle as well.

Jeremy

[FirstFives Dictator]

finally, would you mind terribly elaborating on the 'locked down distributor' with removed weights and washer? ...or pointing me in the direction i can read about it?

i plan to move to wasted spark fairly soon, and want to make sure i do my homework before hand.

Locking down the distributor is only required for vehicles with mechanical ignition advance, like Peter's L-Jet e12. You need to stop the mechanical advance so that the Megasquirt can control the timing electronically. It's not necessary for cars that came with Motronic.

I agree with Peter and would also recommend against going to coil packs right off the bat. Mild to moderate boost can be very successfully ignited with a standard cap, rotor, and coil. Considering that they're a 75k mile part for the most part, I wouldn't consider moving to something much more complicated to be a big gain. Megasquirt will give you enough to learn and figure out without tossing that into the puzzle as well.

Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy
Well put!

[Russianblue]

it's still in the cards potentially...down the road after my wife has detox'd from the onslaught of parts, grime and mail order boxes in the garage.

i understand the concept/wiring and inherent difficulties with the possible exception of the 'noise problem', of which this is the first i am hearing as it relates specifically to wasted spark ignition.

Ely did my MS2, but i built my jimstim, GG Idle board and have made numerous mods to the MS board to account for upgraded firmware, boost control, broken CPU pins etc.

i also have a very decent tune in place.

for me, this would simply be a matter of choosing/installing coil packs, routing wires and moving the new spark outputs to the B and C LED's with 330ohm inline resistors, IIRC.

of course there would need to be some re-working of basic MS2 ignition parameters, but i have a pretty good handle on most of that. if i can get it working on the JimStim, it seems as though i'd have a pretty good shot at porting it over to the car.

this is for an M20 (possibly not so) incidentally.

[turbodan]

I would use one coil driver per coil, you would just wire them to trigger in pairs. I suppose you could run just three with six coils but I dont know if they can handle that kind of load.

Eliminating the cap and rotor is worthwhile, but its up to you if its really necessary or not. My caps and rotors keep melting for reasons I have yet to determine. I look forward to a real coil-on-plug system on my next motor.

[Russianblue]

i thought MS2 only supported 1 driver per 2 cylinders? so 3 drivers, and 3 dual post coils wired to opposing cylinders....

[turbodan]

Each spark output would run two coil drivers in a wasted spark COP setup. If you're using true wasted spark coils with two terminals per coil, three drivers would work.