Higher Stall Torque Converter mod!!!!

Finally, a home for all you 524td oil burners out there.
Post Reply
ISO_524td
Posts: 152
Joined: Jul 18, 2006
Location: Escondido, CA

Higher Stall Torque Converter mod!!!!

Post by ISO_524td »

Hey turbo-diesel fanatics,

I finally got around to installing this higher stall torque converter (HSTC) that I've been ranting about for a while. What a difference!!! It turns a very sluggish car into one that really scoots!

Before getting to the details, I'll need to rationalize this to the people who will poo-poo me for not going the 5sp manual transmission conversion route. First off, I live in SoCal and driving in heavy traffic with a manual transmission, changing CDs, answering phone calls etc. can be a real pain. It's sometimes nice just to have a automatic transmission as one less thing to worry about when driving. Secondly, unless you have some parts cars lying around, it can be somewhat expensive, like over $1K. Then there's tracking down the appropriate single mass flywheel, which are not easy to find. Lastly, it takes quite a while to perform the swap. I've never done this, but it looks like we're talking one/two weekends minimal for someone who had never dropped the tranny out of their car before. There's some welding that needs to be done as well.

So, our cars are equipped with the ZF4HP22 automatic transmission. They don't have a good reputation because many of them came with a serious design flaw that would burn out the "A" clutch pack if the transmission was rev-ed in Park or Neutral. First off, don't do this and if you get it rebuilt, make sure they update it so it's not susceptible to this anymore. Secondly, you should change the transmission fluid/filter every 30-50K miles......not 100K+ or even never like some of the factory recommendations. Following a good maintenance schedule should allow the transmission to last the life of our TD cars, to 300Kmile+. One last bit of tranny trivia is the ZF4HP22 is rated to 260lbsft of torque, which is more than enough for our cars, even if you do some mild tuning. You can stuff the internals from the ZF4HP24 transmission into our tranny and have up to 350ftlbs capacity! :D

Okay, so enough of the techical crap. I tried an OEM solution and that simply didn't work. However, I was able to base the higher stall TC on that component and through my custom supplier, I was able to create one that satisfy my needs. First off, the HSTC weighs 10lbs less than the stock torque converter. This makes the M21 actually rev much more freely like a lightweight flywheel has been installed. Secondly, the revs during normal driving stay right in the meat of the M21 powerband, around 2200 to 2700 RPM and the turbo is always ready to go. The responsiveness is very dramatic. But the biggest problem that's been solved is the off of the line performance. Stock, it seems like the turbo takes forever to spool, like around 3-4 seconds. This has been reduced by around 2second with the HSTC. Overall, this HSTC mod alone could give a 5sp conversion a run for its money in a drag race. But it remains very civilized for daily driving......the mileage should stay the same or even increase as the turbo spools up quicker allowing for more complete burn of the diesel fuel and less smoke as well. Lastly, the HSTC can be installed in one day and then even be able to change the tranny fluid/filter as well.

So, my supplier and I are going to offer this HSTC to any interested parties for $390 plus shipping. It comes with all brand new parts and the internals have been strengthened as well. Specifically, OEM torque converter splines have a tendency to strip and this should be mitigated. Let me know if you're interested.

Disclaimer: this HSTC is rated up to 250lbsft of engine torque. It's not intended for racing activities or for high horsepower applications.

Thanks!
Chris H.
Last edited by ISO_524td on Feb 21, 2007 8:37 AM, edited 2 times in total.
Matt
Posts: 2351
Joined: Feb 12, 2006
Location: Fargo

Post by Matt »

Great work!

What kind of mileage do people get with 524s? Do they have any real economy advantages over an eta engine? How do they take to biodiesel or WVO?

I bet in 18 months the Turbo Diesel forum here has recipies and FAQs for building a good TD daily driver with way more performance than they ever had from the factory :)
ISO_524td
Posts: 152
Joined: Jul 18, 2006
Location: Escondido, CA

Post by ISO_524td »

18 months?! I'm thinking in less than two months. :) You first need to deal with the current shortcomings specific to this car.....replace cylinder head fasteners, deal with the above tranny issue and supplement your low sulfur diesel fuel with either ATF or Howes diesel treatment to prevent the injector pump from leaking. The engine is quite stout from there and is easily good for 50% more power than stock with an intercooler upgrade.

People with stock 524tds generally get low to mid 30mpg. I heard that etas get high 20s to low 30mpg. If you factor in the higher cost of diesel, it appears to break-even.

I've disconnected the EGR and bumped the timing a bit. I routinely get 40mpg with my 524td. You can never get this out of an eta consistently! Also they are biodiesel and WVO friendly.

Chris H.
Shawn D.
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 22370
Joined: Feb 12, 2006
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Contact:

Post by Shawn D. »

Chris,

Does the non-EH tranny have a lockup converter? If so, you shouldn't see much, if any, loss in MPG. In traditional hot-rod applications, high-stall converters can cause a loss of 3-4 MPG.

Either way, have you upgraded the tranny cooling? Do you have a trans temp gauge?

-Shawn
ISO_524td
Posts: 152
Joined: Jul 18, 2006
Location: Escondido, CA

Post by ISO_524td »

The non-E/H ZF4HP22 does have the lock-up converter and this feature is retained with the HSTC.

The additional stall of the HSTC is about 500rpm greater on average than the stock converter. I say average because the personality of the two converters is different. The static stall speed of the HSTC is only 200-300 more until the car starts moving and then this converter shoots up to the 500-600rpm range increase. The stock 524td converter seems like it always wants to suppress the engine from going over 2000rpm.

With stock HP, I don't believe tranny heat will become an issue. Also, my temp gauge hardly ever goes above 160 degrees, so I think there is extra cooling there for the existing tranny cooler built into the radiator for the td car. However, it would probably be a good idea for me to get a transmission temperature gauge as I increase the power. So far, I've driven the car pretty hard at my estimated 130-135hp level and the tranny fluid is still bright pink and doesn't smell burnt.

I'll keep you posted,
Chris H.
Frybrid 524td
Posts: 2689
Joined: May 27, 2009
Location: ...

Chris H.?

Post by Frybrid 524td »

Anyone know of a way to get in touch with Chris? I'd love to see if he can still source these HSTCs. I PMed him months ago but to no avail...
Nebraska_e28
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9135
Joined: Apr 13, 2006
Location: Council Bluffs, IA
Contact:

Re: Chris H.?

Post by Nebraska_e28 »

Frybrid 524td wrote:Anyone know of a way to get in touch with Chris? I'd love to see if he can still source these HSTCs. I PMed him months ago but to no avail...
I pm'd him about a year ago & no response, but have a few good questions as well.
IPM
Posts: 190
Joined: Feb 28, 2009
Location: Sedalia Mo 65301

Post by IPM »

ISO_524td wrote: I routinely get 40mpg with my 524td. You can never get this out of an eta consistently!

Chris H.
I've created an eta tune that gets 34mpg consistently. All I did was take a racing dynamics tune, return the fuel map to stock, and reduce the ignition map back to stock in the area where likely to detonate ie the very light part throttle region. mpg would probably be better if I swapped the oem rear diff back in as it currently 3.25 in a manual 5 speed.

don't think I can get 40mpg in an eta.......
Post Reply