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Well, the replacement water heater Pop and I installed back in 2001 finally gave up the ghost. Plastic catch pan is full, garage floor on the left side shows water trail, and water has pooled outside the garage door, right behind the truck. Not sure whether it's leaking from around the elements or if I have a seam/seal that finally crapped out, but I do know that it is being replaced. It was the lowest price point 40 gallon unit GE made, with a 6 year warranty, so I figure I got the goodie out of it.

Replacement GE 40 tall at HD is the same price as the medium Whirlpool 40 at Lowes, both of which are offered with a (you guessed it) 6 year warranty. Since the unit is right up against the wall in the garage, and I happen to be vertically challenged, sweating the necessary joints is NOT fun. Plus, I'm just not that damn good at it. Electrical, not a problem. Draining, lifting, moving water tank, not a problem. Sweating joint, that's a problem.

Which leads to my next question - anyone here use the Sharkbite/Gatorbite fittings? I have read up on them and believe that they would work, but I am curious about longevity. Not worried about longevity, as I will more than likely be replacing another water heater in 9 to 11 years, but curious as to whether anyone has used these type of connnectors with any success and for how long. Any practical experiences and comments are welcome, as I am heading out of town tomorrow and would hate to leave the lovely ladies of my life without hot H20 for the next 4-5 days.

Oh, and just for S&G's, I asked about install from HD and Lowes. The install was more than the cost of the freaking water heater. But I get to "avoid" sales tax on the sale of the heater.

Have you thought about a tankless system? I was going to go this route when I replaced mine about two years ago but I already had a heat exchanger installed which uses the heat of the AC during summertime to preheat the water and reduce heating costs of my water heater. If the heat exchanger craps out before I change the next water heater I'll go tankless.

I haven't used Sharkbites but that's not to say they are not a good option.

As long as you are liberal with the flux and torch, the solder should just get sucked in on its own. I've dealt with more plumbing problems this past year than I'd like to recount and I was terrible at sweating a pipe fitting at first. I've got the hang of it now though. Practice on a few pieces of scrap copper tube. It takes a lot of heat and flux to get the solder to spread evenly throughout the joint.

If you're concerned about the need to remove sections of pipe later, you could opt for solder joint x NPT fittings so you can unscrew sections later. Obviously, you need to make sure the pipe you use can handle the heat though, i.e. CPVC not PVC.

I'm curious about the sharkbites as well. I think they'd be a great option for some re-plumbing in my garage, but some real-work opinions would be great!

I used them successfully (so far) to hook up the basement bathroom sink. Long story short, they were the only immediate option I had for fixing my plumbers mistake in running the lines without tearing out a section of drywall. I was skeptical, to say the least, but I've had zero drippage from the second I installed them.

Keep in mind my application is a rarely used basement sink. They see a lot less action than a water heater. They're pricey, too. I would think for more than a couple pieces it may just be cheaper to hire a plumber.

mitch, the price from Lowes for delivery and install is a minimum of $249, not including water heater and now required (supposedly per code) expansion tank. HD was even worse, as the gent setting up the estimate stated I should be looking at $550 to 600 for the total install.

Replacement water heater runs $186 from either place. Sharkbites/Gatorbites run roughly $11 to $18 per hose, depending on length. I would need 3 of these (one for fill, one for return, and one for T&P line) and possibly a little bit longer (12-18") electrical line for short boy hookup, if I decided to run that route. I think I know what route I will be taking for install...........unless someone can tell me a horror story, that is.......

Jesus...$250+ for the install? Over $500 for a water heater install is robbery.

At those rates I'd definitely either go the sharkbites route or carve out a day or two and sweat the pipes myself through trial and error.

They make specialized water heater connections, so I cannot imagine they're terrible.

http://www.cashacme.com/prod_sharkbite_flexhose.php

I've never heard of these. Like Frybrid, I have the battle scars of the learning curve on copper pipes. Cleanly sanded pipe with plenty of flux and heat, they solder themselves.

I'd solder in some adapters so you can put removable flex lines on it for easy R and R if and when the time comes. And I just spent half a day reworking the soldered in hose bib next to the house so it was going in the right direction. Two leaks, one from the last solder connection and one from an already damaged O ring on a union. Anyway, I'd reccommend the solder route with removable connections, but if you really don't want to go that route, yeah, go with the sharkbites.

Soldered in place stuff on wear items drives me nuts. It's like lets save 5 bucks and cost someone a few hundred in a couple of years, along with headaches.

TSMacNeil wrote:I've never heard of these. Like Frybrid, I have the battle scars of the learning curve on copper pipes. Cleanly sanded pipe with plenty of flux and heat, they solder themselves.

As a crack house landlord for many years. . .Dooo Eeeet!

x2 tankless?

I did a tankless electric install not too long ago, I bought a unit from an outfit called Titan (http://www.titanheater.com/) for about $220 - installed very easily, uses compression fittings. I used some 16" double-compression ended hoses, two 90 elbows with 3" sections of pipe sweated into them for the compression ends to bite on.

The good? My electricity bill went down immediately. I never run out of hot water. The unit is dirt cheap.

The bad. I had to upgrade my fuse box (literally the old style screw-in fuses) as the unit requires nearly 60 amps. You MUST run #6 or larger wire to the unit.

This part isn't so bad, but may annoy some (myself included). When the unit is on the lights in the house tend to flicker a tiny bit. This is due to the fact that the temperature regulator in the unit uses PWM to two huge mosfets to control the heating elements. 11kW in my case, modulating to control temp will make just about any residential power system fluctuate slightly. The effect is much more noticeable on florescent light fixtures but seemed to have no effect on my computers or audio equipment (guitar amp, studio monitors,etc).

This part annoys the hell out of me though, just over a year - 13 months -- one month our of warranty -- the unit blew out in a spectacular puff of smoke. Having nothing to lose I opened the unit to find that they used these really cheap (read:shitty) terminal blocks to transition power from the incoming romex pigtail to the mosfets and controller board. Well, these were so bad at conducting the load that they melted the plastic holder and one of the 120v feeds grounded against the housing internally. Not to mention liquefying one of the setscrews.

I went to Home Desperate, got some thick wall heat shrink tubing and a pair of these:

I just have these floating inside the unit, I had plans to mount them but I don't really see the point. They stay cool, and about $12 later I have a working water heater again. 2 years later, not a single problem. The original terminal blocks can be seen here:


In conclusion, these units are hand-grenades from the factory due to those inadequate terminal blocks. But if you're willing to forfeit the factory warranty and do some surgery, you'll have a long lasting efficient water heater - as long as you keep hard water and debris out of it. And worst case, if you have to buy another one at full retail you're still ahead of the game compared to the price of most tankless heaters.

Other readers should note that electric tankless heaters like the one above will not work if your inlet water temp is too low, so you can't use them very far north.

I have used both the gator bite and pex fittings on water heaters and they have held up years now. If you can find the compression nut style pex(they are big and gray ) I have had that on my water heater for around 6 years now

I have replaced the plumbing as needed in the old part of the house. Totally, in some places , twice. Hot water heaters last about 8 yrs. I use 40 gallon propane heaters, The near fittings to it are screw together couplings. I can R+R it in about 2 hrs. Copper plumbing and pvc drains . The main deal is clean copper and flux. Oh and drains. It is impossible to solder copper if it has water in it. I have also added ball valve shut offs. ahead of every sink etc. I can valve off anything without having to shut down everything. This allows me to change filters in less than 5 minutes. I have about 25$ invested in a couple of tubing cutters, brushes, flux and a torch. For the 1 1/2 galvy water feed from the wellhead to the pump to tank, I have a few stilsons Teflon tape . I buy extra fittings and copper pipe, so I can handle emergencies. Because I'm prepared , they dont happen.

I used a few of these fittings in 06 when I replaced the old galvanized pipes with copper in Hatley Manor Two. Most of the joints were sweated but there were issues routing the cold water in the half bath. This route required sweating in a cavity very close to the main beams of the floor and outer wall and I just could not get my torch in there without starting a fire. Yes, I suck as a pipe fitter. The Sharkbite fittings did fine with my dry pressure test of 140 PSI for a week and have worked perfectly since installed (The water pressure is limited to 75 PSI at my main shut off valve). The only odd thing about these fittings is they allow the pipe to rotate freely on the main axis of the fitting. If you use two or three of the Sharkbite fittings or have a 90 degree fitting your pipe can flop around until you secure it with a few extra plastic pipe holders. This also made cutting the end of the stub a bit harder as the pipe wanted to rotate with the pipe cutter.

Oh yes, look at an on demand water heater; they are awesome! I installed a Noritz and am very pleased with its performance. Good luck with your project…

Just got off the phone with the folks that are contracted with HD to do delivery and installs. $479 for delivery and install of unit, NOT including water heater itself. This is for a residential, easy access (garage wall, no obstructions), pre-existing hard wired electrical, install and carry away. Me thinks I need to brush up on my sweating techniques or learn more about these Sharkbites/Gatorbites.........

Lowes should only be around 260+water heater.

Parks, can`t get anyone over there to help ya ??? Randy/

When I did my heater I used SS flex lines. Sweated the end coupler and then screwed them all together. I'm 6'4" so I don't have a problem getting to most things. When sweating the pipes just use a metric ass-ton of flux and heat it from the back side while feeding solder in the front. The solder will get pulled to the heat as the flux boils out. To keep water residue from getting to your joint while soldering use some white bread slices stuffed in the pipe on the outlet side. I wouldn't do this on the inlet side because you'll get white bread gunk in the water heater. When you turn on the faucet the pressure pretty much just liquifies the bread and pushes out the faucet. I've done the water heater, hot tub, and bathroom sink this way without a problem.

Karl Heinz wrote:Just got off the phone with the folks that are contracted with HD to do delivery and installs. $479 for delivery and install of unit, NOT including water heater itself. This is for a residential, easy access (garage wall, no obstructions), pre-existing hard wired electrical, install and carry away. Me thinks I need to brush up on my sweating techniques or learn more about these Sharkbites/Gatorbites.........

Somebody's looking to make some money on that job. I'll second the votes for learning to sweat copper joints; once you get the hang of it it just works. Lots of heat, some flux and the solder gets drawn right in, slick as can be. I've never tried it, but a friend says using MAP gas is better than propane, hotter.

I'm surprised the unit only lasted you ten years. The one I replaced eight years ago was installed by the previous owner in 1977 (now I'm wondering how many years I have left on it ). And another house I help maintain has one that's been in place since 1976. We're planning on replacing it this year.

As long as you stay on top of changing the anode rod, a water heater should last longer than eight years. It's cheap insurance.

mooseheadm5 wrote:Other readers should note that electric tankless heaters like the one above will not work if your inlet water temp is too low, so you can't use them very far north.

Yep. Gotta use the gas ones up here.

Tankless heaters have been used in Europe for years. Not only do they save a ton on energy (gas or hydro), they save on space. No big heater hanging around.

I've got a Rinnai. I love that thing.

I've got a bunch of sharkbites in my house (at least 20), and I've been here 3 years so far. They are all 1/2 copper on one side, and a mix of 1/2 copper and 1/2 PEX on the other. They are for my radiators, so they see water above 150F for several months of the year, on and off, 24 hours a day.

The only trouble I've had is when you don't get one seated all the way, or, when the pipe it was going on wasn't cleaned up enough. I didn't have enough exposed clean pipe before I ran into the solder bulb from the other side of the joint. That one leaked a little until I cleaned up the pipe and re-seated the sharkbite.

I've also got one acting as the T-fitting for my dishwasher under my kitchen sink. Again, hot water application with infrequent use.

I say they're settled science. They save a ton of time. Get the special removal tool though.

Karl Heinz wrote:Just got off the phone with the folks that are contracted with HD to do delivery and installs. $479 for delivery and install of unit, NOT including water heater itself. This is for a residential, easy access (garage wall, no obstructions), pre-existing hard wired electrical, install and carry away. Me thinks I need to brush up on my sweating techniques or learn more about these Sharkbites/Gatorbites.........

Have you considered calling an actual plumber as opposed to the box store people?

Well, just installed new water heater and connection hoses with the Sharkbite connections. Everything seems to be just hunky dory. In fact, it took longer to clean up the old copper tubing to make it ready for the Sharkbites than it did to install all of the connections. Only drips I have seen is from the old, original cold water shut-off valve. Only a couple of drips, so it will more than likely seal itself off with a little bit of time. If not, off it comes and a Sharkbite valve goes on in it's place.

Oh, and in reply to Jeremy, I did call three local, recommended plumbers. The cheapest was still over $500, and would have required waiting another two days. Total outlay was right at $300, not including the gas to get back and forth to the Homey Depot. Hell, I can learn to sweat joints while I'm waiting for the Sharkbites to fail, and still bank something.