MyE28.com

I'm looking for a torque profile for the stock engine. I'm pondering plopping an M106 in a Land Rover, and want to set it up to get the torque peaking pretty early, 2000 to 2500 RPM, and then staying relatively flat through at least 3200.

From what I can find, the M106 stock rating was about 280 lb-ft at 2200? (380Nm, am I doing that math right?)

Velocewest wrote:I'm looking for a torque profile for the stock engine. I'm pondering plopping an M106 in a Land Rover, and want to set it up to get the torque peaking pretty early, 2000 to 2500 RPM, and then staying relatively flat through at least 3200.

From what I can find, the M106 stock rating was about 280 lb-ft at 2200? (380Nm, am I doing that math right?)

You will probably need a quicker Spooling turbo to have all that torque that early. the factory KKK defines the word lag.

If you want that kind of torque, you'd honestly be better with a stock eta, or an eta with a turbo for some serious low end.

Jeremy

Here is the curve out of my owners manual....



If you want the torque early (like on the chart), you will need to use the 745i motronics as it pulses the the wastegateb (@12Hz) to achieve faster spool up.

Looks to me like the stock engine does just what I want -- the torque peaks at around 2k, and holds steady until about 4.5k.

I know the Motronic pulses the wastegate, but I thought that was to prevent strong "on-boost" and "off-boost" sensations. I could use a different turbo (but then I'd need to buy a TCD manifold vs. using my scavenger parts). Maybe I can use a diverter valve to bleed boost until the turbo spools.

I definitely am not using 745i Motronic. I'm planning Megasquirt, but as a fall back I could use the existing Lucas MAF setup or 535i Motronic. This won't be a high-output setup, I want the grunt. The M106 stock torque is 60 lb ft more than a Rover 3.9 V8, and the stock HP is about 70 more. That's better than the strongest pre-BMW ownership Rover V8, the 4.6, and I'll likely be able to pull 16 mpg city and 20+ highway, a 25% improvement over the V8.

Why a BMW engine? I can bolt it right up to a Rover ZF 4HP22 and transfer case.

I have never seen or ridden in a 745i that provided any appreciable boost at 2200rpm. My experience has always been that these motors do not make any power until 3000rpm.

Todd

Todd,
Don't you remember the 10 page forum fun at 745i.com on Joey's 745i dyno #s at 10psi? The M106 makes peak boost @ 2200rpm. In the stock form thats ~5-6psi. Joey's dyno had the same characteristic even @ 10psi, peak boost then fall off after ~2400rpm. We can squabble about the #'s, but that was the same. The 12hz WG does works. The 745i's are autos also, that puts more load on the system to help boost spool up faster than a manual trans.

Ill go see if I can dig up the link to that thread again.

RussC

T_C_D wrote:I have never seen or ridden in a 745i that provided any appreciable boost at 2200rpm. My experience has always been that these motors do not make any power until 3000rpm.

Todd

russc wrote:Todd,
Don't you remember the 10 page forum fun at 745i.com on Joey's 745i dyno #s at 10psi? The M106 makes peak boost @ 2200rpm. In the stock form thats ~5-6psi. Joey's dyno had the same characteristic even @ 10psi, peak boost then fall off after ~2400rpm. We can squabble about the #'s, but that was the same. The 12hz WG does works. The 745i's are autos also, that puts more load on the system to help boost spool up faster than a manual trans.

Ill go see if I can dig up the link to that thread again.

RussC

T_C_D wrote:I have never seen or ridden in a 745i that provided any appreciable boost at 2200rpm. My experience has always been that these motors do not make any power until 3000rpm.

Todd

I have have no interest in arguing this point. I have owned 6 745i and none of them ever made any appreciable power until 3000rpm. It is possible that none of them worked properly.

All were automatics.

Todd

Well Duh,
None of these systems make appreciably power until you get the rpm's up. Thats what power is, work(energy)/time. You need rpm's to make power. At 2.2k rpm, theres no power to be had, but theres lots of torque. The pulsed WG system does work. If you know that tuning exhaust headers work, then the pulsed WG system works also. The physics of the system is solid for making more low end torque, BUT not power!

We all know the limitations of the M106 system, especially the turbo, exhaust manifold and cam falling on its face after 4.5k rpm's. All the dyno charts prove that.

RussC

T_C_D wrote:

russc wrote:Todd,
Don't you remember the 10 page forum fun at 745i.com on Joey's 745i dyno #s at 10psi? The M106 makes peak boost @ 2200rpm. In the stock form thats ~5-6psi. Joey's dyno had the same characteristic even @ 10psi, peak boost then fall off after ~2400rpm. We can squabble about the #'s, but that was the same. The 12hz WG does works. The 745i's are autos also, that puts more load on the system to help boost spool up faster than a manual trans.

Ill go see if I can dig up the link to that thread again.

RussC

T_C_D wrote:I have never seen or ridden in a 745i that provided any appreciable boost at 2200rpm. My experience has always been that these motors do not make any power until 3000rpm.

Todd

I have have no interest in arguing this point. I have owned 6 745i and none of them ever made any appreciable power until 3000rpm. It is possible that none of them worked properly.

All were automatics.

Todd

Low RPM torque is what I want.

Velocewest wrote:Low RPM torque is what I want.

Sell all the 745i stuff or you will be very disappointed.

Velocewest wrote:Low RPM torque is what I want.

eta turbo > 745i equipment in that case.

strange i looked at this.
http://eastcoastrover.com/ they offer great modification and service to rovers.

why drop a turbo six in there when the stock 88-91 range rover engine is an aluminum buick v-8 (never produced by buick)
but still a supercharged american v8 vs a turbo german v6?
also land rovers idea of part swayability so you can maintain your SUV in the middle of some hole in africa really helps here.

i know alot American stuff bolts on to this engine also the transmission bell housing is the same as some American engine (dont remember) that you can get insane power from cheap. and the drivetrain other then the vicious coupling can handle alot of power. but you can get a militay coupling (defender 110 think)

i wish i remembered more but ive been out of rovers for 4 years and i know how impossible it is to find info. ECR might be able to help you out.



http://eastcoastrover.com/Washington.html
piggy engine install

East Coast Rovers is the best place to go, but they will cost you an arm and a leg. The best engine for a Rover is a turbo diesel. Unfortunately, ECR will take $10k from you to do it. Best bet is to get a Rover V8. It'll be the cheapest route. An alternative would be to go to Borders, get a Land Rover magazine, contact an engine supplier in England and have a compatible turbo diesel sent over. The standard choices are not available in the US.

East Coast Rovers serves the "Pumpkin, shall we get a Rover to keep at the Hamptons house?" crowd. Not my income demographic. Plus they're on the wrong coast.

The idea of dropping a turbo M30 in place of the BOP/Rover v8 is to do something uncommon on the cheap. A diesel would be great, but even the cheapest of diesel swaps into a coil spring Rover chassis is still a $5,000 job. I've got 2 or 3 M30's in the garage, once you pile up all the parts.

I may just turbo the v8. It's only about 8:1 compression, so adding 6-8 psi boost shouldn't blow it up right away...