MyE28.com

I have a friend of mine that I worked with at Fort Stewart, GA just move here. When we were in GA he was busy building a FI motor for his $500 1992 Eagle Talon TSI AWD. I was busy with OPERATION HARTGE and had no interest in the FI four banger world.

Fast forward to today. He is now stationed at Fort Campbell. He contacted me via email that he saw me around and in fact lives in my neighborhood. We have had lunch together and several good talks about FI the cars. He took the Mitsubishi 2.0L and put a stroker kit in it to yield 2.3L engine. His highest numbers to date are 470 RWHP at 28 psi. Not bad huh.

He went to the track near out neighborhood last Friday. I asked him how he did. Well at 18 psi (he says "low" boost) he got a 8.01 at 91 mph in the 1/8th. Tha bastard. Remember that his car has all wheel drive too. Just ticks me off that the import (Japanese) guys can get such great results for little money.

Some interesting info he passed on to me was. In his forced induction community, Cometic MLS gaskets are looked on as garbage. Their experience is that the gaskets chronically leak between the layers. He had experienced this himself with a Cometic gasket a week after install and replaced it with a HKS gasket that has worked perfectly. This is after replacing all of his cooling equipment thinking that was the problem, sound familiar? This may be the cause of my cooling issues. Zane believes that is is the cause also. I will be performing a leak down this weekend to find out. Compression results from yesterday were -

160psi +/- 2 in cylinders 1-5. 150 psi in cylinder 6.

No one get your panties in a bunch about the about statement ref. Cometic. I am passing on what I have been told by two different sources thus far. It's all about having all of the information before you make a decision on what equipment to use.

Duke M535ti wrote: He went to the track near out neighborhood last Friday. I asked him how he did. Well at 18 psi (he says "low" boost) he got a 8.01 at 91 mph in the 1/8th. Tha bastard. Remember that his car has all wheel drive too. Just ticks me off that the import (Japanese) guys can get such great results for little money.
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I had the same result with my e36 325is at 10.5psi.

I am not too impressed that it took him 18psi and AWD.

T_C_D wrote:I had the same result with my e36 325is at 10.5psi.
I am not too impressed that it took him 18psi and AWD.

I know. He has run 7.4 in the past with his car. That was on race fuel though.

I for one am DAMN impressed with the 4banger FI scene.

When done right those cars are some incredible beasts.

AND CHEAP TOO!!

Duke, weren't you going to get yourself to the track near your place? There was a lot of talk before 5erFest, did you ever run the car?

Jeremy

Some of those little 4 banger bastards can be outright monsters. In a issue of Hot Rod that I have, there's a photo of an early 90's Mitsu Evo2 that hit 191mph in the standing mile .

Jeremy wrote:Duke, weren't you going to get yourself to the track near your place? There was a lot of talk before 5erFest, did you ever run the car?

Jeremy

Yep, had nothing but issues with wheel hop and breaking engine/transmission mounts and U-joints.

My best time was a 8.79. Not one clean run, will do it again when I find a 1/4 mile track in KS. Will also have the one piece DS.

I've been ivolved with the turbo 240sx community for about 5 years now and the general consensus is that Cometic HG are ok, but are eclipsed by the Apex'i HG which has a cutting ring built into the gasket. It acts much like an o-ringed block. Ive had no issues with mine on my sr20det(the 240sx engine in Japan) in over a year on my rebuild running 17psi on an upgraded turbo making 300whp(its a t28 based turbo) while a friend had issues with his cometic on the stock turbo(t25) at 10psi. Most find that the cometic requires at least one retorque during the first 1000 miles of driving and any MLS gasket should use a nice coat of copper spray when installing.

Big Bronze Rim wrote: Most find that the Cometic requires at least one retorque during the first 1000 miles of driving and any MLS gasket should use a nice coat of copper spray when installing.

For the most recent Cometic MLS gasket, I retorqued mine after one heat cycle, several days later and then twice more weeks apart. I also applied Hylomar between all of the steel layers and one each surface around the oil and water passage holes. The last Cometic MLS gasket I used, I applied copper spray to it. It failed 1000 miles later. I did not retorque it though.

The current Cometic MLS gasket is the third on this engine in 10K miles.

Mind you, the first two failures were greatly contributed to an improper head surface preparation. Do a search, I so do not want to get into that again.

Jury is out on the current gasket and/or block.

You can't have a true one-piece shaft, you at least need a sliding spline portion. There is no slip yoke in the portion that bolts to the tranny, so there needs to be one somewhere in there for installation purposes and to accomodate the driveline flex.

My best time was a 8.79. Not one clean run, will do it again when I find a 1/4 mile track in KS

I don't know exactly where you are at in KS, but this place is in Glenwood, IA. Let me know what you find because I'm looking for a 1/4 mile track.

midamericamotorplex

KCIR is on the southeastern side of KC, Duke. It's on HWY 350 and about 45 minutes from my base. It should be just a drive through KC for you, which would take you about 45 mins or so. That may be the closest one for you. If you ever go, give me a call; I'd like to come and maybe run one of my cars for the heck of it.

I have a buddy that I went to Tech School with in Pensacola. He's at Hurlburt Field in Ft. Walton Beach, FL now. He recently picked up an AWD Eclipse that I think is about a 95 or so. It's already got a rebuilt engine, fully built transmission, and who knows how much boost.

The cool thing about the Jap car crowd is that, because there are so many around, they know how much max power you'll get out of a certain upgrade or a certain group of upgrades. This is if you talk to a reputable source, of course. I'm sure they have plenty of bench racing going on.

With his setup, he says -- and I have no reason to disbelieve him -- he's walked away from Mustang Cobras (the supercharged 5.4L ones) and all KINDS of other stuff. He raced a turbo E36 M3 recently, that had a huge, black intercooler behind the front airdam. Not sure if the M3 was tuned right, but he always calls me with a new list of "kills." Sound familiar, Duke?

The only problem I have is that he's using an Apex-i and stock NB O2 sensor to tune it and has black smoke billowing out of the exhaust under WOT. If he can get a WB and tune it right, he should have a pretty fast car.

I'm curious how soon it'll blow up.

ive got a friend with a 1stgen talon tsi, with an apexi idles like shit and may be a little rich under boost i havent really checked. but hes run a 13.9 with supposedly a burnt valve so pretty much on 3 cylinders. theyre fast i guess, but i wouldnt drive one.

Kyle in NO wrote:You can't have a true one-piece shaft, you at least need a sliding spline portion. There is no slip yoke in the portion that bolts to the tranny, so there needs to be one somewhere in there for installation purposes and to accomodate the driveline flex.

You mean something like this????




I've had a "one piece" in my car for a while now and me likes.

Yup, exakwy!

tough to beat a 1g dsm for cheap performance. Ive since lost my timeslip but I went 12.6@110 in my 92 talon with only a hacked airbox w/ a k&n, 3" turbo back exhaust and manual boost controller set at 17psi with the lame stock 14b turbo.......pump gas, dumping the clutch at redline witch had just enough slip to launch the car hard without breaking anything.....sold it when it started to slip a little TOO much

I clicked off the same ET with one MPH less in my 02 mr2 spyder that I turbocharged at 10psi. I had about 3500 into that turbo setup. I wish I had a chance to get my e30 to the track with the hx40 when the clutch still held. Woulda, coulda, shoulda been fun. Oh well, on to bigger and better setups

Duke M535ti wrote:

T_C_D wrote:I had the same result with my e36 325is at 10.5psi.
I am not too impressed that it took him 18psi and AWD.

I know. He has run 7.4 in the past with his car. That was on race fuel though.

I am! It takes alot of power to overcome the weight and drivetrain loss of that AWD system. Have you guys driven one of these cars before? Evo, STI? Very, very, very fast up to around 90-ish. Then they're slugs...besides, they are rally cars. Those little 4 cylinders with mini turbos don't have much of a top end at all. It would seem even worse with a big, heavy, power sapping AWD system. You guys should see the amount of horsepower they put out on dyno, now that's unimpressive.

what about heartland park topeka,KS??, i made a run down that with my buddy john's 56 buick special, it was a junkyard rat, pulled a 454bbc out of a R.V., he got it to make 400 at the rear wheels, and a re-geared c-10 silverado rearend, and a i think he pulled a th-400, not sure on the tranny, but it with all that weight, it did ok on street tires at 13.5, it prob couldve done better, but we used a lot of redneck mechanics(way off topic haha)

I'll tell you where cheap import cars don't stack up: brakes. At the Mazda Drivers School @ VIR (where we shook out the E30 race car that I did the engine management for) the instructor warned us newbies that for the most part brakes on Asian cars were not up to even light track duty. German brakes were much better.

And this guy drove a 500hp 3rd-gen RX7.

WRX-STI comes to mind as a car that would drive off the track if it got sucked into a late braking corner by a Porsche.

I have a buddy that lives a couple of streets over from me, for a couple of years had his own performance shop tuning asian metal. Several 600bhp Integras and the like to his name. His choice is an AWD Eclipse (bout 3 gens ago).

Ow.

SheerHippo wrote:I am! It takes alot of power to overcome the weight and drivetrain loss of that AWD system. Have you guys driven one of these cars before? Evo, STI? Very, very, very fast up to around 90-ish. Then they're slugs...besides, they are rally cars. Those little 4 cylinders with mini turbos don't have much of a top end at all. It would seem even worse with a big, heavy, power sapping AWD system. You guys should see the amount of horsepower they put out on dyno, now that's unimpressive.

Some turbo mag I picked up in the airport a couple weeks ago has a few Evo VIIIs that put out 900+ hp at the wheels. 50+ lbs of boost. Some blew up on the dyno.

UPDATE - I rode in and then drove his car.

He was running 20 psi so the HP should have been in the 390-400 WHP range. The car weighs 3100 lbs. I was surprised at how nice the boost came on and his redline was 8000 rpm. The boost came on quickly and stayed steady to redline. Just a blip of the throttle above 2500 and the boost was about instant. He did a great job building the engine. The car has a "studder box", the equivalent of my Launch Control. He demoed it for me and we took off like nothing else. At one point all four wheels were spinning and we had a slight drift to the left. A very strange feeling. I am used to the rear moving, not the whole car.

He let me drive it and I enjoyed the experience. The car was not a refined as a FI E28 but it was fast.

One thing I really did not like is that his waste gate dumped to the ground and not the exhaust system. Talk about loud as hell. I am very happy that the TCD kits do not do that.

I let him drive my car and he was very impressed. Even though the car was running 12 psi, he just loved the linear application of power the huge amount of torque. At 1.2 liters bigger than his engine and two more pistons, it makes quite a difference.

Was great to swap rides and talk FI with another really knowledgeable guy.

Glad that you got a chance to drive in a properly boosted import.

My first boosted ride was in a import and the torque increase was very eye-opening. Some of them are wild untamed beasts that will run like a raped ape...

altus22 wrote:

SheerHippo wrote:I am! It takes alot of power to overcome the weight and drivetrain loss of that AWD system. Have you guys driven one of these cars before? Evo, STI? Very, very, very fast up to around 90-ish. Then they're slugs...besides, they are rally cars. Those little 4 cylinders with mini turbos don't have much of a top end at all. It would seem even worse with a big, heavy, power sapping AWD system. You guys should see the amount of horsepower they put out on dyno, now that's unimpressive.

Some turbo mag I picked up in the airport a couple weeks ago has a few Evo VIIIs that put out 900+ hp at the wheels. 50+ lbs of boost. Some blew up on the dyno.

Yeah I pick up "Turbo" mag and "Import Tuner" every so often...but I meant stock!

Just saw Marlon (Car owner),

He went to the track yesterday. Ran a 7.74 @ 95.

MAN, he really makes me sick

How do 1/8 mile times relate to 1/4 mile? I have a hard time grasping what a 7.74 @ 95 in the 1/8 means. 1/4 I know pretty well.

I know it's not going to be linear, but is there some "rule of thumb" scale factor that is applicable?

At any rate, what do the good (e28) time slips record for 1/8 ET and trap speed?

booker wrote:How do 1/8 mile times relate to 1/4 mile? I have a hard time grasping what a 7.74 @ 95 in the 1/8 means. 1/4 I know pretty well.

I know it's not going to be linear, but is there some "rule of thumb" scale factor that is applicable?

At any rate, what do the good (e28) time slips record for 1/8 ET and trap speed?

1/4 mile ET = 1/8 mile ET x 1.5832
HTH

Vance

vance wrote: 1/4 mile ET = 1/8 mile ET x 1.5832
HTH

Vance

Not sure if this is a silly question or not, relating to the formula. Wouldn't the multiplication factor be a function of power levels (and drivetrain gears) at that point on the strip? Would a car with 20 psi and 350+ rwhp have a different factor than a car with 10 psi and 250 rwhp? My logic may not be working right this morning...thx.

Mike

Mike-TurboE24 wrote:

vance wrote: 1/4 mile ET = 1/8 mile ET x 1.5832
HTH

Vance

Not sure if this is a silly question or not, relating to the formula. Wouldn't the multiplication factor be a function of power levels (and drivetrain gears) at that point on the strip? Would a car with 20 psi and 350+ rwhp have a different factor than a car with 10 psi and 250 rwhp? My logic may not be working right this morning...thx.

Mike

That's a pretty good "ball park" figure. You're right, as once you get up there you start running into whether one car has to shift gear again, drag coefficient, hp/torque, weight.. and SO many other variables. That multiplication factor is just to give you an approximation.

Or, if you're at a computer, you can use something like this.