Conversion of E28 535i to M535is

[BudFox]

I acquired my first E28 this past September. Dolphen Grey with natural tan interior, and only 52,XXX original miles.

After rebuilding a portion of the car, I'd like to convert it to a M535is. Mine is an auto with the comfort seats. I don't know enough about the M535is to do this without some insight. Anyone know what I'll need to do??

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I tried uploading a pic of the car here:

http://webpages.charter.net/qr7189

[Duke]

http://www.m535i.org/

Click it, read it, live it.

[Shawn D.]

Welcome -- your car looks great!

The first thing you need to know about the M535is is that there's no such BMW-built animal as an "M535is" -- there's the 535is and the M535i, but they are not the same car. The former was available in North America and the latter was available in Europe.

There are LOTS of threads here about the differences and details of the M535i -- I suggest you look through the archives. Also check out http://m535i.org/.

[M635CSi]

Wow, that's one good looking car. Welcome to the board!

[grahamular]

Nice car! Personally, I wouldn't change a thing...but if you did want to do some exterior changes, I would go with an 87/88 "is" front spoiler. Or if you wanted a bigger project, swap out the US-spec front and rear bumpers for the smaller Euro bumpers, which are still available as new OEM, or used. And as others have mentioned, for other upgrades/changes the differences between the i/is/M535i are well documented. Either way, looks good!

[Wiseguy]

I hate to blaspheme.. but man, a 54k mile 535i almost deserves to be preserved. VERY few still exist in pristine, low-mile condition.

[DRP535]

There's a lot to change. Bumpers, headlights, front fenders, gearbox, fuel tank, diff, dampers, wheels, tyres, seats, springs as well as adding a myriad of other small trim pieces as well like rear headrests, gear shift knob, steering wheel, oil cooler, headlight throw adjuster, fog lights, bootlid spoiler, badging, tupperware bodykit...

The list is almost endless. Starting from a US-spec car as a base you're contemplating a very expensive and very large job indeed. It will probably cost you many times what the car is worth just in parts to convert it. This is why everyone isn't doing it and also why those of us who have M535is tend to hang on to them. We know it won't be easy finding another one.

There's a guy here doing the same conversion but starting from a Euro-spec 535i as a base so he doesn't have the bumper issue to worry about. He's been going on the conversion for at least a couple of years now as he gets some spare cash and find the parts he needs. Even after 2+ years he hasn't found a bodykit for it yet and hence it is still obviously not an M535i. And this is in a country where the M535i was actually sold brand new. Doing the same thing in the US would be an almost impossibly difficult task I would think unless you had unlimited funds available.

[BudFox]

I guess what I'm really looking to do is give the car the M535is look without too much in the way of conversion. The car came with new paint and for some reason a NEW BMW dealer installed A/T (still under warranty). In addition, all of the usual yet crazy electrical issues that the E28 sometimes has were all taken care of.

Unfortunately, I've found myself doing a lot of work to the car since I took hold of it (though lack of mileage, no parts last forever) - all parts being new (brake booster, tran. cooler lines, PS hose pump and all new hoses, new center carrier bearing, front stabilizer links, ignition switch & tumbler, motor mounts, CV boots, brake level switch and pressure switches, rear sway bar links, diff mount, valve cover gasket, tie rods, rear pitman arms, trunk and taillight gaskets, hood insulation and all hood foam. I then added CooperZeon Sport A/S tires on the BBS 17" wheels (I use the orig. TRX spare rim as an office decoration piece - it's still in new, unused condition).

The car runs great (this week, at least). I'd like to add the front air dam and rear spoiler. It has the comfort seats but they'll be great with new leather (they're cracked a bit bu nothing major or ripped). The backseat is a little hard to the touch but it's never really been sat in.Then I'll add a Dinan chip and free-flow exhaust. It needs a radio (original won't accept the code), so I plan on replacing all the wires and OEM equipment for an Alpine setup - I just don't need another bill right now.

When I was 15yo, my nextdoor neighbor brought home a new E28 - Dolphin grey with the red (red wine colored) interior. Just awesome, and I was hooked!! Nineteen years later I'm 34yo and just now getting my turn. After marriage, a house, two kids and a business - I'm treating this car right!!

[wkohler]

Well, considering there is no M535is look, it would be pretty hard to convert it.

If I had that car, I would not touch a thing. A car with that low mileage should really be kept stock - especially since you have to drill to do the cosmetic upgrades. I'd just pick up another stock radio that will accept the code - putting in aftermarket stuff into that car would cheapen it some - especially considering what head units look like these days.

[Rich Euro M5]

If you really want to know what it takes to do a decent conversion of a US 535i to the M535i body kit. You need to get in touch with JBort. In addition to simply adding the M-tech body kit, Jay also custom bent steel rod stock to duplicate the oddly shaped tow hooks used on the M535i. I believe Jay's conversion is probably as close to a M535i as you'll find. There are others that have done the conversion as well. Ray in Phoenix has done it, and TT did several.

FWIW: Not every M535i had the dogleg sport box. I personally know of two Euro M535i with the G265 OD transmission.

Rich

[tacm]

That car looks great. If it were mine I would not change a thing

[DRP535]

The "M535i" look you want essentially means adding the M-Technic bodykit. That's the single biggest signature styling cue that verily screams M535i.

Trouble is it's very expensive these days though there's usually one old rusty M535i in the UK being parted out at any one time on eBay so providing you're willing to fork over the readies, they're not impossible to find. Fitting it will be a huge task though. From what I understand there's a fair bit of metal fabrication work involved to make it fit involving major modification of the US bumper setup.

[riddler]

There's a lot to change. Bumpers, headlights, front fenders, gearbox, fuel tank, diff, dampers, wheels, tyres, seats, springs as well as adding a myriad of other small trim pieces as well like rear headrests, gear shift knob, steering wheel, oil cooler, headlight throw adjuster, fog lights, bootlid spoiler, badging, tupperware bodykit...

why?

you have to add arches to the fenders, rear bumper fits almost with no changes, the fron one also, you have to take away the front valance, only thing you have to do some welding - the mountings at the front, that come under the front fenders, and a mounting, that comes on the spare wheel cover under the car, to mount the sideskirts, you also have to weld 4 mountings on underside of the car, bootlid is the same, you have to drill holes to fit the rear spoiler, all the technical stuff is the same as a usual 535i or in the us 535is, gear box is the same, diff for an automatic m535i is 3,25 LSD that iz very popular also 3,07 fits, that comes if you have the doglegged gearbox, fuel tank is 100% the same as 518 to m5

suspension originally is equipped with bilstein dampers, and stock springs,

the realy big difference from an ordinary e28 in suspension is between 518/520/524td/525/528/535/m535i and M5

[cgraff]

There's a lot to change. Bumpers, headlights, front fenders, gearbox, fuel tank, diff, dampers, wheels, tyres, seats, springs as well as adding a myriad of other small trim pieces as well like rear headrests, gear shift knob, steering wheel, oil cooler, headlight throw adjuster, fog lights, bootlid spoiler, badging, tupperware bodykit...

why?

you have to add arches to the fenders, rear bumper fits almost with no changes, the fron one also, you have to take away the front valance, only thing you have to do some welding - the mountings at the front, that come under the front fenders, and a mounting, that comes on the spare wheel cover under the car, to mount the sideskirts, you also have to weld 4 mountings on underside of the car, bootlid is the same, you have to drill holes to fit the rear spoiler, all the technical stuff is the same as a usual 535i or in the us 535is, gear box is the same, diff for an automatic m535i is 3,25 LSD that iz very popular also 3,07 fits, that comes if you have the doglegged gearbox, fuel tank is 100% the same as 518 to m5

suspension originally is equipped with bilstein dampers, and stock springs,

the realy big difference from an ordinary e28 in suspension is between 518/520/524td/525/528/535/m535i and M5

The rear bumper will fit, but you will need to drill the holes, and then fill the holes from the US bumper shocks (weld and paint)

The front bumper can also be mounted to the US frame rails, but requires either grinding and rewelding the euro mounts, or using adaptors of one form or another. You will also need to fill in the holes on the rear valance and front grill support where the bumper bellows went (again, weld and paint!)

The side skirts don't mount with any additional mounts. There are extra mounts for the jacking points that need to go on.

The US 535s did not have the big rear diffs that the euro 535s came with. Although the ratios are equivalent.

Fuel tank is not the same. The euro cars came with a 70L tank and the US ones with a 63L tank because the 70L didn't fit with the extra rear frame rail support for the rear bumper shocks.

The euro M5 didn't really have a big difference in suspension. Spring rates weren't significantly stiffer than 535/M535. The shocks were different, yes. The US M5 had bigger sway bars (25/18 vs 19/15.5). Up to 10/86 the euro M5 had 21mm front bar and 14mm rear bar and post 10/86 25/18mm. The early bars weren't significantly different than the M535/535i 19/15.5 setup.

You can check all of this stuff out on the ETK.

-Chris

[DRP535]

There's a lot to change. Bumpers, headlights, front fenders, gearbox, fuel tank, diff, dampers, wheels, tyres, seats, springs as well as adding a myriad of other small trim pieces as well like rear headrests, gear shift knob, steering wheel, oil cooler, headlight throw adjuster, fog lights, bootlid spoiler, badging, tupperware bodykit...

why?

you have to add arches to the fenders, rear bumper fits almost with no changes, the fron one also, you have to take away the front valance, only thing you have to do some welding - the mountings at the front, that come under the front fenders, and a mounting, that comes on the spare wheel cover under the car, to mount the sideskirts, you also have to weld 4 mountings on underside of the car, bootlid is the same, you have to drill holes to fit the rear spoiler, all the technical stuff is the same as a usual 535i or in the us 535is, gear box is the same, diff for an automatic m535i is 3,25 LSD that iz very popular also 3,07 fits, that comes if you have the doglegged gearbox, fuel tank is 100% the same as 518 to m5

suspension originally is equipped with bilstein dampers, and stock springs,

the realy big difference from an ordinary e28 in suspension is between 518/520/524td/525/528/535/m535i and M5

You've obviously missed the fact that the OP's starting car is a US-spec model. This makes a huge difference! Yes, I know the changes are not that dramatic if you're starting from a Euro spec car, but the OP isn't. To get to an M535i from a US-spec model he has to complete both a complete Euro conversion and an M535i conversion at the same time! Just the Euro conversion is a mammoth task only attempted by the most handy DIYer with money to burn in the US. The conversion to M535i spec on top of that is a huge commitment.

[Rich Euro M5]

There's a lot to change. Bumpers, headlights, front fenders, gearbox, fuel tank, diff, dampers, wheels, tyres, seats, springs as well as adding a myriad of other small trim pieces as well like rear headrests, gear shift knob, steering wheel, oil cooler, headlight throw adjuster, fog lights, bootlid spoiler, badging, tupperware bodykit...

why?

you have to add arches to the fenders, rear bumper fits almost with no changes, the fron one also, you have to take away the front valance, only thing you have to do some welding - the mountings at the front, that come under the front fenders, and a mounting, that comes on the spare wheel cover under the car, to mount the sideskirts, you also have to weld 4 mountings on underside of the car, bootlid is the same, you have to drill holes to fit the rear spoiler, all the technical stuff is the same as a usual 535i or in the us 535is, gear box is the same, diff for an automatic m535i is 3,25 LSD that iz very popular also 3,07 fits, that comes if you have the doglegged gearbox, fuel tank is 100% the same as 518 to m5

suspension originally is equipped with bilstein dampers, and stock springs,

the realy big difference from an ordinary e28 in suspension is between 518/520/524td/525/528/535/m535i and M5

You've obviously missed the fact that the OP's starting car is a US-spec model. This makes a huge difference! Yes, I know the changes are not that dramatic if you're starting from a Euro spec car, but the OP isn't. To get to an M535i from a US-spec model he has to complete both a complete Euro conversion and an M535i conversion at the same time! Just the Euro conversion is a mammoth task only attempted by the most handy DIYer with money to burn in the US. The conversion to M535i spec on top of that is a huge commitment.

DRP,

Your missing the point. NOBODY in the US has done a complete conversion to Euro spec of a US car, as Chris Graff has pointed out, there are significant differences in the body shells . What most do in the US is convert to the Euro bumpers which isn't as expensive as installing the M535i tupperware kit. IIRC, all the parts fro the M535i body kit are still available new from BMW for more than $4000 USD. While a complete set of Euro bumpers was slightly over $1000 USD. To install the tupperware kit requires Euro bumpers, as the bumpers support the front airdam and the rear skirt of the M-tech body kit. There's actually less body work needed if one installs the M-tech kit. The rear skirt of the M-tech kit covers the mounting holes for the rear bumper shocks.These holes are visible if one simply installs the Euro bumpers.

When we in the US state we want to convert to the Euro configuration it doesn't mean a full conversion to Euro spec. It means we want the more visually appealing Euro bumpers or the M-tech kit.

FWIW: A true Euro spec E28 body is structurally inferior to a US/NA spec E28, particularly in side impact accidents. Most of the other differences pertain to requirements the US DOT requires. Same for other countries too. It would be an interesting exercise to convert to Swedish or Japanese spec E28. These countries have a number of items that are significantly different from a Euro spec E28. Even Australian E28s aren't true Euro spec, Australian, South African and English spec E28s have differences compared to Euro spec, the ETK illustrates this.

Rich

[coopa.s]

The Aussie spec M535i compared to a euro spec:

We have side intrusion bars in our doors much like the US cars

Cat low comp engine, like the US cars

Our cars are optioned by BMW Australia hence have pre ordered options (ie all of them had the dogleg box, lsd etc)

The body is almost the same I think, besides the intrusion bars.

DRP is correct in saying to change the fenders. US spec cars have indicators on them, M535s dont.

[Kyle in NO]

Nope, no indicators on the fenders of the US spec cars...

[coopa.s]

I think what I MEANT to say was that
"M535s have indicators on their fenders and US spec cars don't"

It was 2.30AM when i wrote that. Thats my excuse.

[BudFox]

Okay...feeling a little nauseous about the conversion idea . I think it's been proven that it's not a good idea. However, I will be converting my 535i to an "IS". With that note, I'm looking for a front air dam and rear spolier. Whose gottem?!?!

[JBort]

I believe Jay's conversion is probably as close to a M535i as you'll find.

Thanks, Rich! Considerable planning and fabrication went into the conversion, from a U.S. 535i to a full M-Technique "M535".
John Savoca and I worked closely in the planning and execution (and documentation!) of this conversion. Of course, having two (2) "real" euro M535's on hand made it possible to duplicate the differences. BTW, we have 2-3 additional conversions planned for the spring.

As previously stated, you have to first accomplish a "euro bumper" conversion, then an "M-Tech" addition. It is not inexpensive, even having used parts and "bartered" labor and fabrication. John has a well equipt shop with lift and an incredible "stash" of new/used BMW euro parts and hardware.

Also, as previously stated, you can accomplish various levels of "M-Tech" conversion, from just "the look" to "all the proper equipment, including an oil cooler and euro tow-hooks (just to name a few...). 8)

The bottom line is this; enjoy your 535, modify to whatever level makes you happy!

Picture Gallery

[mczarski]

I guess what I'm really looking to do is give the car the M535is look without too much in the way of conversion. The car came with new paint and for some reason a NEW BMW dealer installed A/T (still under warranty). In addition, all of the usual yet crazy electrical issues that the E28 sometimes has were all taken care of.

Unfortunately, I've found myself doing a lot of work to the car since I took hold of it (though lack of mileage, no parts last forever) - all parts being new (brake booster, tran. cooler lines, PS hose pump and all new hoses, new center carrier bearing, front stabilizer links, ignition switch & tumbler, motor mounts, CV boots, brake level switch and pressure switches, rear sway bar links, diff mount, valve cover gasket, tie rods, rear pitman arms, trunk and taillight gaskets, hood insulation and all hood foam. I then added CooperZeon Sport A/S tires on the BBS 17" wheels (I use the orig. TRX spare rim as an office decoration piece - it's still in new, unused condition).

The car runs great (this week, at least). I'd like to add the front air dam and rear spoiler. It has the comfort seats but they'll be great with new leather (they're cracked a bit bu nothing major or ripped). The backseat is a little hard to the touch but it's never really been sat in.Then I'll add a Dinan chip and free-flow exhaust. It needs a radio (original won't accept the code), so I plan on replacing all the wires and OEM equipment for an Alpine setup - I just don't need another bill right now.

When I was 15yo, my nextdoor neighbor brought home a new E28 - Dolphin grey with the red (red wine colored) interior. Just awesome, and I was hooked!! Nineteen years later I'm 34yo and just now getting my turn. After marriage, a house, two kids and a business - I'm treating this car right!!

I love those rims , are they from a 540? Do you know the offset?

[Azure]

I wouldn't suggest the M535i conversion to anyone, really. The front end particularly is a LOT of frickin work.

I'd also dispute the accuracy that it's easier than Euro bumpers... at the rear, perhaps where you can hide the US bumper mounts, but at the front, not having the valance installed brings up it's own myriad of problems.

Do I love the way the conversion looks? Hells yeah. Would I do it again? Uhm...... I don't know about that.

[BudFox]

In regards to the BBS rims, I believe they came with the E39's sport package. I have no idea what the offset is (much less to be very honest what offset means ). They are in good shape but after seeing others on some E28s, I'd really like to have them cleaned and polished (problem is I can't find anyone to do this in the midwest - anyone have any suggestions??).

In regards to converting the car to an "IS", I've decided not to par-take in this venture. I've seen so many 535is', and believe me they are all fantastic, but as I tend to be a purist in the hobbies I take-on, i feel that my car should remain true to its 535i form. In addition, as I agree with Wiseguy's comments in an above post, you don't see nearly as many 535i E28s in pristine condition. Rather than steer funds towards conversion costs, I feel it would be better IMO to allocate funds towards restoring the car to its original 535i condition.

[DRP535]

In regards to the BBS rims, I believe they came with the E39's sport package. I have no idea what the offset is (much less to be very honest what offset means ).

Well if you feel inclined to find out what it means, may I point you to this website: http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html The information specific to offset is located almost exactly half way down the page. I should point out though that I believe the information is wrong in one aspect. It states that an "Inset wheel" (with a diagram to support what this terminology means) has a positive offset. That is wrong I believe. This is a negative offset value, not positive. Negative offsets are the norm for car wheels just like negative camber is normal for road going cars. Positive camber and positive offsets are the typical beach buggy look.

Thus, all these ET numbers you see thrown around in here on the discussions about wheels are all negative values. They just don't say they're negative (and they're not marked as being negative on the wheel itself either) because it's a given. It would be so unheard of to have a wheel with a positive offset on a road going car that the minus sign is superfluous, so it's just left off entirely.

[BDK]

Not to add fuel to the fire here but

The side skirts don't mount with any additional mounts. There are extra mounts for the jacking points that need to go on.

No additional mounts, but there are about 8 holes to be drilled/side for the holes for the screws the hold the side skirts on....

and don't forget the jacking point extensions, I guess that is what you mentioned above....


You know since my M535i is on a rotisserie, I should take detailed pics of all the differences I spy between the Mtech car and say the wrecked M5 car I have...

the front bumper mounting area is quite different...

[BDK]

Here are some pics of one of my favorite Delphin euro cars...
I love that color when it is in good shape...

<img src="http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WAAPD3oZ ... 6296645010">



<img src="http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VACSD60Y ... 6306114617">

Your car is really nice BTW....
I would go this route before an Mtech Kit conversion but that is just my 2 cents.....

[Beardedbmrguy]

I know this is a really old post but, I just want to call out all the guys saying there's no such thing as a M535is. They absolutely do exist. I just purchased one yesterday. And if there's any doubters out there. I can take a send the pic of the badge on the trunk lid. Can't help with the parts differences though. Mine needs complete restoration and it's missing a few parts lol

[wkohler]

lol.

[ahab]

Plz post pics of trunklid. Plz.