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Some one asked me what makes a Dinan BMW

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
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Dinan e28
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Some one asked me what makes a Dinan BMW

Post by Dinan e28 »

Here is what I said (some people may not know)some know more then me.

Well Dinan is a US BMW tuner that makes over engineered, some say over, priced parts for BMWs. You get points for the parts that you buy. After you get 10 points your car is a registered Dinan car.And you get the Dinan badge. Or you can buy pretuned Dinan cars in some dealerships.

My car has a stage 3 suspension with special valved Bilstiens and lowered springs 25/19 sway bars and camber plates. The chip also a shock tower brace. I added the Dinan stainless cat back exhaust. that gave me a total of 12 points.

The parts that were over the top were the the Turbo setup and brake packages and the rear diffs and they also offered wheels, gage packages and reworked intakes and throttle bodies. I'm, sure I missed some parts. Also most e28 Dinan parts are NLA.

Please feel free, to add to or bash my Dinan post. :up:
Image Steve Dinan's e28Image
Merkin
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Post by Merkin »

Good information!

How does the Dinan chip compare to a Jim C or Mark D offering?
Dinan e28
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Post by Dinan e28 »

Dinan chip #3 Jim C #2 Mark D #1
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Dinan is a US BMW tuner that makes over engineered, some say over, priced parts for BMWs
Dinan does not make crap for BMWs. He takes off the shelf BMW parts that will cross fit your car, charges a four hundred percent markup and then sells you the said OEM BMW parts. Quite the scam.

Don't believe me; ask the 12 people who bought the 840Ci brake up grade for their cars from me. Dinan called it "his" stage two brakes for an E28 and charges $2500. The parts from me were around $700. Crook

You could not PAY me enough to have anything Dinan on my car much less his trunk candy.

Bring it on Dinan lovers....................I aint got much to do.
Tammer in Philly
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Post by Tammer in Philly »

I hardly qualify as a Dinan lover, and I don't own a single product. But I'll take issue with your comments to some degree. Yes, in the past a lot of his parts were BMW parts from other models fitted to the smaller models. Those are valid upgrades, and in the late '80s/early '90s Dinan and a few others (our own Bob G. and Rob Levinson) were the first to spend the money and time figuring out what worked.

His suspensions use parts available from suppliers like Bilstein and Koni ... so what? So does Ground Control, and TC Kline, and everyone else. No one makes better shocks, unless you're dropping $$$$ for 6-way externally adjustable Motons. Dinan invested the time and money to do the tests with various setups, spec his own compression/rebound valving, match the springs/shocks to swaybars, etc., and sell it as a package. He does a lot of package development; just because it can be replicated for less once the initial investment is made doesn't mean he can't profit from his work.

His newer stuff has a lot of fabrication, especially the forced-induction systems. His new shorter diffs aren't from other BMWs because they're running ratios that aren't available off the shelf. He actually does engineering over bling most of the time ... witness the twin-tip exhaust on his E46 M3s, instead of the quad tip. He paints all the tips black so a) you don't have empty cutouts (would look stupid), and b) you can't tell that only one side is actually flowing. He realizes the current M-car quad-tip design is a gimmick. Exceptions: CF engine-bay dress-up and Brembo brake kits--and he has gone on record saying they don't stop better than big single-piston calipers, but customers demand it so he sells it. Is it overpriced? Yes. If I had the cash to buy a S3R Dinan E46 M3, would I? Probably not, but I sure wouldn't discount the idea. I put his work right up there with Hartge and Alpina these days, or maybe a tiny notch below. Know what? Those guys aren't cheap either, and I like that Dinan package cars don't look much different from stock.

As has been said before, he warranties everything and makes it all CARB-legal; neither of those perks is free. I think the guy charges too much, but I know the market--particularly his blinged-out Cali market--will support what he charges, so does that make him a scam artist? No more than a realtor selling a house in SF for 4x what it would fetch in Nashville.

You can probably tell from the above that I'm a fan of Dinan's suspension setups, having ridden in a few full-package cars. Every review I've ever read maintains his suspensions give much better grip/control than stock, but ride just as well, give or take a bit depending on the nature of the car (E46 M3 his are supposedly better, for the E36 M3 I can confirm it's only a tiny bit harsher than stock). I'm sure he could drop his prices ten or twelve percent across the board and still turn a healthy profit, but I don't see anyone else doing what he does for less ... and I think there's a reason for that.

-tammer
Duke M535ti wrote:
Dinan is a US BMW tuner that makes over engineered, some say over, priced parts for BMWs
Dinan does not make crap for BMWs. He takes off the shelf BMW parts that will cross fit your car, charges a four hundred percent markup and then sells you the said OEM BMW parts. Quite the scam.

Don't believe me; ask the 12 people who bought the 840Ci brake up grade for their cars from me. Dinan called it "his" stage two brakes for an E28 and charges $2500. The parts from me were around $700. Crook

You could not PAY me enough to have anything Dinan on my car much less his trunk candy.

Bring it on Dinan lovers....................I aint got much to do.
Blue Shadow
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Post by Blue Shadow »

Would be nice to see Duke take on Dinan.

Cars at 20 paces for the 1/4-mile, road course and if anyone cares some circle somewhere.

Then the braking, skidpad and slalom, all wet and dry.

Or is the issue just the $2500Dinan got-$700Duke got=$1800 more profit for Dinan, less cost for dinan and time for duke the major problem?

Dinan is overpriced, but he has his facility in one of the most expensive areas of the country to live, and he charges BMW type prices for stuff which means high to position products in the top of the market, performance or not.
Dinan e28
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Post by Dinan e28 »

Please feel free, to add to or bash my Dinan post

I knew Duke would chime in. Russ C knows much more about Dinan then I do. Any one else know of e28 Dinan products that I missed?
Dinan e28
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Post by Dinan e28 »

Please feel free, to add to or bash my Dinan post
I knew Duke would chime in. Russ C knows much more about Dinan then I do. Any one else know of e28 Dinan products that I missed?
Blue Shadow
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Post by Blue Shadow »

Nice update on the 2nd post, thanks.
Dinan e28
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Post by Dinan e28 »

No problem, Blue Shadow. I hate to have to scroll win it is not needed.
How my car looks now
Image
Before the IS spoilers
Image
Dinan e28
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Post by Dinan e28 »

Any one else have anything to add?
BKCowGod3
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Post by BKCowGod3 »

Lesse now... When you buy Dinan, you're paying for the research and the knowledge of a quality part. Same thing happens at my store. The owner makes the best slumped glass dinner plates you can buy. Nobody questions that, but people do question the $50/plate price. The people who buy it do so because they support an artist. The people who don't buy it generally go to Cost Plus and buy the knockoffs for a fraction of the price.

Sure, most people would never know the difference, but if we stop supporting the innovators then eventually they'll go away.

(and yes, this is coming from someone who refuses to buy Dinan, but that's because I can't afford it. My family already did our $20k tithe at the altar of Steve... :D)
Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

While Duke is right about some Dinan products for the e28, it certainly isn't true of all of Dinan's e28 line. The brakes are from other BMW lines, yes.

The springs? Not available from anyone else.

Sways? Close to Racing Dynamics, but not exactly the same.

Shocks? If you could get someone at Koni or Bilstein to divulge the settings, I suppose you could get a custom set made.

Chip? IIRC, it was created by Jim Conforti before he left and started his own business. There are now better options, but the Dinan software was king in its time.

Intake manifold? What other m30 powered car has a ported and extrude honed intake manifold? Answer: none. It's a BMW part modified by Dinan.

Big bore throttle body? Same deal.

Turbo kit? It's not a 745i take off, that's for sure. I don't know if their manifold was entirely unique, but I know it gets a CARB sticker.

There are a lot of Dinan products that they developed on their own. Most could be replicated now for less money, but Dinan doesn't really cater to most of us anyway. They market themselves to the deeper pocketed enthusiasts who want one stop shopping for quality performance products, and they seem to be doing quite well with that.

That said, I can't see myself purchasing anything from them any time soon.

Jeremy
russc
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Post by russc »

Duke is a known serial Dinan basher, and thats OK.

The only product from BMW that Dinan branded as their own were brakes. Everthing else was their creation except the BMW Motorsports stroker cranks for the S38s. The brakes are the price they are because thats what they costed back in 1991. The Dinan brakes for the E28 were not initally the E31s, but were the E28/E24 ///M5 brakes. BMW used the same stuff for the E31s.

Plus the VAR markup, thats the cost you get. Dinan just never decieded to lower the cost to move inventory. There are products that they lowered the cost on to move, brakes never seem to be one of them.

Should Dinan be labeled crooks, hardly, I see them as oppertunistic business people.

I think that Duke would have a different apprectiation for what Dinan does if he was to open his own shop in the SF BAY AREA, CA and be in the BMW tuner market and run a succesfull company for nearly 30yrs!!!

Everything else has been covered by others in this thread and others like it.

RussC
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What makes a Dinan BMW

Post by M635CSi »

Dinan is a brilliant business man. He's taken what was a hobby when he was young, and turned it into the stateside equivalent of Alpina/Hartge which is respected and supported by BMW dealers across the country - I think qualifies as an impressive business accomplishment.

Now, I've actually only seen two Dinan cars. Both were turbo cars, and both pretty impressive in their own right.

The first, http://www.robertlevinson.com/M5_Turbo/ was owned by Rob Levinson of UCC (Underground Upgrade Club) Motorwerks before there was an UCC Motorworks.

Rob had invited a group of us from the BMW forum to get together in Tarrytown NY. Brett Anderson (www.koalamotorsport.com) was installing an M3 engine into Ben Liaw's e46 318 and (I think) the idea was germinating in Rob’s head about him and Ben starting UUC Motorwerks, Their first product basically being the BMW short shift kit.

The other Dinan car I was able to see was in Indiana on the outskirts of Indianapolis in the showroom of a defunct car dealership. It was an ‘85 Bronzite M635CSi that was lowered and had M5 turbine wheels on it.

I found someone at the dealership and asked is “that old M6 was for sale” well, that “old M6” turned out to be a full boat Dinan turbo car; Much different than Rob Levinson’s car but similar in the quality of workmanship – very nice. Rob’s car just seemed (to look at) like a stock ’88 M5 with the exception of the Porsche turbo air cleaner, red hoses, and air cooler for the turbo mounted in place of the original M5’s air filter box.

The Dinan M6, I was told, was a 3.9 liter built for a basketball player. It had a custom (Dinan built) 3” exhaust with a single inlet/outlet stainless steel muffler. There was no sign of an air filter or even the usual pipes you see sticking up into the engine compartment for the turbo, it was all very discreet.

On the passenger side, in place of the M6 Air Flow Meter, was a mass air flow sensor (from an 840 I was told) which was being blown through from the pressure side. The air cooler fed by the turbo was plumbed to the mass air flow sensor directly before the intake plenum.

The car was already sold when I got to it so perhaps it will turn up again?

As far as Dinan’s engineering goes, it is what it is… It isn’t rocket science but then again, it doesn’t have to be… He’s not improving the performance of a Ferrari Enzo http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/ferrari_enzo.asp, he’s improving the performance of mass produced family cars…

BMW built the E28 for the masses. Even the M5 E28 was mass produced (I know, I know “hand built”). Improving one aspect of a mass produced family car at the expense of other aspects just isn’t that difficult.

Dinan takes BMW parts and has them made over with minor changes.

When everything is said and done, The Dinan stage 1 “suspension” for the E28 is a set of rewound springs, some revalved production shocks and some adjustable swaybars; nothing more...

What makes Steve Dinan successful isn’t his ability to engineer, but his ability to market…
neptunechris
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Post by neptunechris »

shureamgladIaskedaquestion.
neptunechris
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Post by neptunechris »

shureamgladIaskedaquestion.
neptunechris
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Post by neptunechris »

shureamgladIaskedaquestion.
Blue Shadow
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Post by Blue Shadow »

As stated, Steve is a good businessman, having gone into business with BMW. He is also a good driver, but many who enthusiastically enjoy these cars are. He also has good people working at his business or the quality of the work would suffer. His forté is the suspension and handling. His power improvements are along later. But it seems he is now doing a good job at that too. One of the BMW race teams here in the states switched from PTG motors to Dinan motors due to the improvement in power delivery and it was reported the team intends to stay with Dinan power. So Dinan does good work, but is expensive. So are BMWs. They sort of go together.
russc
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Post by russc »

Wow,
This thread disappeared, now its back :?

RussC
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