MyE28.com

Mike W. wrote:Hammerfest, ...

My wifey says I need to host a Harvestfest.

Jay 3 was supposed to drop off some sport seats I bought from him this Saturday and help with my car.

Now Alec's is priority, hopefully he will chime in. The more brain trust the better.

Off to dave's it goes.. A step in the right direction!

I really appreciate all the offers for help! A weekend hammer-fest/wrench-fest would definitely knock out the majority of what needs to be repaired, and the fact that all of you guys are willing to come give us a hand goes to show how helpful your fellow e28ers can be when this forum is used properly.

We'll start the teardown process this week, and most-likely determine our next-step within a few days, depending on the weather, and work schedules of Spark and I, and dave's availability.

I'm taking back my band aid for a moment....

After checking my car and theorizing how that damage came to be...I think it's one of two things.

The first is that when the door was opened it pressed that upper corner of the door against the fender and into the lower A pillar. Before you jump in on this consider that the door is acting as a 3 foot long lever with the fulcrum at the door hinge, perhaps 4 inches from the fulcrum to the contact point and all of the pressure generated is on a contact area of maybe 1 square inch or less against the sheet metal of the A pillar.

Fe = Fl dl / de

Fe = the force effort applied to the long end of the lever to the fulcrum point, Spark Jr. looks above average in the upper body strength department, so we'll figure 40 lbs of pressure exerted to open the door against the resistance of crunching sheet metal.

Fl= the force load , what we are solving for

dl= the distance from the load force(Fl) to the fulcrum, which in our case is 4 inches or .3 feet

de= the distance from effort force (Fe) to the fulcrum, which in our case is 3 feet

.3/3=.1 so it makes it easy for the Fl
40lbs/.1 =400 lbs

If he had to really wrench the door open....100lbs?
1000lbs of force, against sheet metal....

That damage could very easily have been him "just" opening the door. I'm not inclined to wedge a 3 ft pry bar into my door frame to prove that theory. But if you carefully open the door and look at that area you should be able to see the mechanics of that happening.

If that's the case you can skip the next part, but you may want to check it anyway, it'll cost about $20 in materials.


The other possibility is that the inner fender forced back into the A pillar, looking at the damage if this happened, I'd guess around 1/8 of an inch.

In order for that to move back 1/8 of an inch it would have to move the strut tower, and all of the associated reinforcements, back that far. I've seen and repaired worse damage, compared to your inner fender, and never had that happen. I'm doubting to because the damage is limited to just that corner. If you look and the seam at the left edge of the picture...it's apparently inline with the adjoining piece. That seam is filled with seam sealer and I would expect that to be cracked and that portion to be out of alignment if this scenario caused it.
If it did happen, that would cause the caster angle of the strut to increase and the down and dirty way to check that is with a cheap magnetic angle finder placed on the front of the strut. These are like $5 at the local hardware store, I use them when doing front struts on cars where the camber adjustment is made at the attachment of the lower strut to the top of the spindle. Place it on the hub surface for an angle reading, replace the strut, adjust it back to that reading and tighten the mounting bolts. Surprisingly it's pretty accurate, I've done alignments on cars that I've done this to and most came out within spec....for a $5 tool that's not to bad and worlds better than "wherever".

1/8 of an inch is going to show up when comparing both sides. The other way to check is to get an extruded piece of aluminum angle from the hardware store, 1/2x1/2 is fine, or even square tubing...anything long and straight but not to flexible will work. With the fenders off, remove the front nuts of the upper strut bushings and lay the angle across the strut towers butting it up against the stud on each side. Now measure from the B pillar forward to that bar, again 1/8 would show up in the measurements and even be visible looking from the side.

At the least the angle finder and the tubing or angle will find other uses around the garage. I seriously doubt that the shock tower reinforcement moved back and caused that damage, it's possible but I think the more likely scenario is the door opening did that damage....

Damn Jr., take it easy

slimdevil27 wrote:I seriously doubt that the shock tower reinforcement moved back and caused that damage, it's possible but I think the more likely scenario is the door opening did that damage....

Looks to me like the fender did that damage when it moved backwards into the area directly under the windshield. Since it's bolted to the inner fender all along the upper surface, I think it's more likely that the shock tower moved as well.

Edit. I retract the shock tower bit, but I still think the front impact to the fender, and not the door did that punch under the windshield. I'd still fix it however.

ahab wrote:

slimdevil27 wrote:I seriously doubt that the shock tower reinforcement moved back and caused that damage, it's possible but I think the more likely scenario is the door opening did that damage....

Looks to me like the fender did that damage when it moved backwards into the area directly under the windshield. Since it's bolted to the inner fender all along the upper surface, I think it's more likely that the shock tower moved as well.

Edit. I retract the shock tower bit, but I still think the front impact to the fender, and not the door did that punch under the windshield. I'd still fix it however.

I think that's the more likely scenario, but cars will flex quite a bit in accidents and spring back. When my E12 got rear ended the door gaps were good, but you could see where the paint got chipped from contact. Regardless, an eighth of an inch isn't much even if it didn't spring back all the way, body alignment wasn't measured in thousandths back then. Again, not having seen it yet I can't say for sure, but I think it's eminently repairable, albeit to less than a factory standard. But a presentable and functional car.

Mike W. wrote:

ahab wrote:

slimdevil27 wrote:I seriously doubt that the shock tower reinforcement moved back and caused that damage, it's possible but I think the more likely scenario is the door opening did that damage....

Looks to me like the fender did that damage when it moved backward into the area directly under the windshield. Since it's bolted to the inner fender all along the upper surface, I think it's more likely that the shock tower moved as well.

Edit. I retract the shock tower bit, but I still think the front impact to the fender, and not the door did that punch under the windshield. I'd still fix it however.

I think that's the more likely scenario, but cars will flex quite a bit in accidents and spring back. When my E12 got rear ended the door gaps were good, but you could see where the paint got chipped from contact. Regardless, an eighth of an inch isn't much even if it didn't spring back all the way, body alignment wasn't measured in thousandths back then. Again, not having seen it yet I can't say for sure, but I think it's eminently repairable, albeit to less than a factory standard. But a presentable and functional car.

I agree, looking at the picture again. Sorry, I was speculating while working and then out looking at my car. It's like calling a pool shot from the audience when you can't see all the angles. While a door could do that, it didn't on this one. I still think the inner fender/shock tower would have disturbed or misaligned that seam.....so outer fender it is....

HAMMERFEST BABY!!!

A little premature over it being fixed, I think it's just excitement to see a smile plastered on Jr's hang dog face when it's done. Don't you know we are all hard asses here? Not one of us is falling for it

sheldon,

I have a few options for you here. sent you my address and contact info.

when yo have some time call me.

What ever happened with this car?

Hope everything has worked out! Sorry if I missed the details.

.steve.
NYC
1988 528e, 5-speed, 98k miles, The Time Capsule
2001 530i, 5-speed, 118k miles, Almost a Time Capsule

He found a good deal on a very nice 533i so he decided to go the route of least resistance. I got the front end pulled out, we took it for a short drive and it drove just like it should have, so it was repairable. It needed a front clip and paint at that point, along with a radiator etc, but when a good deal presented itself they decided to go that route and be back on the road right now. The 535 will be parted, though I don't think it has been yet, but it's best pieces will of course go to the 533.

FWIW, it was just an afternoon to get it drivable, albeit without headlights or a hood and crunched fenders.

Mike W. wrote:Hammerfest, we need a Hammerfest, not a Wrenchfest. 2X4s, chains and 8 pound sledges. Take no prisoners.

Got a good chuckle out of that, thanks