"W" window sticker

[joeweir]

Nevermind.

Robey said id better than I could have.


[Edit by joeweir on [TIME]1133833448[/TIME]]

[2monkeysayoyo]

Viva la Revolucion! Icehouse will be my Secretary of State.

[Tim in N FL]

originally posted by C.R. Krieger: ...We are not going to be able to convince the three major ethnic groups in Iraq to get along as long as they have 160,000 tall, fair guys, who all dress alike, to target. Likewise, we are not going to see a hunky-dory democracy just like ours emerge in a nation like Iraq, no matter how long we stay there. Had we left as soon as we captured Saddam, we could have declared a victory and there would now be no need to apologize to the families of an additional 1500+ dead soldiers.

Amen C.R....

[C.R. Krieger]

I would argue the point of going to Iraq was to get troops in the enemy's backyard - only area in the region politicaly and strategically plausible.

Sorry; you'd have to convince me that the difference between Iraq and Saudi Arabia (where we already had troops) or Afghanistan (where we also already had troops) is militarily significant. I doubt that it is. Even so, if that was the objective, why not just say so?

Also there is no way to avoid morality in government - laws are written and voted into law based on the moral beliefs concerning right and wrong of those who write them and vote them in or out.

That was not my point. Government can be morally motivated, but it need not be the model of morality, nor should its leaders be regarded as such. If you can recall the times when it is, you will realize the result has always been less than desirable. The guys who wrote the Constitution knew that from recent experience. We need to quit occupying ourselves solely with the the mere 'PC' process of separating church & state and remember the reason. Our aim shouldn't be to homogenize the US into a totally nonreligious nation but simply not to be like Iran.

As for leaders, we don't need somebody who never got a blow job from a cheap floozie and we don't need somebody who never 'inhaled' and we don't need somebody who was a perfect soldier in an unpopular war. We need somebody who, in spite of being any or all of those things, can solve the problems of the country. All the media/opposing party scrutiny and preccupation with 'character' have not only diverted us from that goal but, in fact, I have little doubt that it has eliminated from candidacy most of the somewhat 'flawed' candidates who would do their jobs the best. That is not their loss; it is ours - and we need to address it.

[BKCowGod3]

And here is why I respect Mr. Krieger (look, I spelled it right!)...

I was told recently to respect my elders, but age has absolutely nothing to do with it. I give respect to anybody who earns it from me. Well said, C.R.

[robeyff]

C.R. - Good comments. We had to get out (mostly) of Afghanistan because, despite what we are told ad nauseam in the media, the U.S. made an agreement with the government in exile to get the Taliban out, help set up infrastructure and security, and then leave. Saudi Arabia and Jordan are allies (ostensibly) and although we have troops there, we cannot move at free will with the authority needed for counterinsurgency operations.Our military in Iraq is pulling off what I believe history will show is one of the most complex success stories in the modern era - they are "bait" for terrorists - drawing them in and occupying them away from us, and at the same time training a heretofore inept military structure to be proud and fight professionaly. Along with those duties, our servicemen and women are building schools, teaching English, providing medical care, housing, and food - in short, building trust among a people who have for centuries known only war, oppression, and humiliation - but you don't see that on the news. Of course it will take time, but it is phenomenal how much has been accomplished in two years. As the Iraqi citizens gradually become willing and able to interact and communicate with our servicemen and women on a normal , personal level, friendships will form, family pictures and stories will be exchanged, and slowly each side will not seem quite as threatening to the other. All the diplomacy and policy in the world cannot accomplish the face to face social interaction our military is doing at great personal risk. It's not perfect and I don't expect a big Muslim/USA lovefest, but the level of abject hatred is dissipating each time an Iraqi compares the BS he has been told with the kindness and bravery he sees for himself in our troops. And that is the answer - less hatred; is there a more noble or worthwhile goal? Who else would even try?Had Saddam not so obligingly set up the legal conditions for us to invade, we may have had to stay in Afghanistan longer, or launched raids from other available points of departure. I know it's not pretty or perfect, but as the Brits like to say about us; after bumbling around for awhile, America can be counted on to do the right thing - it's what we do, it's who we are - I wish the situation was such that we could have taken Iran instead, but you've got to play the cards you're dealt - geopolitics is a tightrope - we're usually pretty good at it if given the time to finish what we start.

[C.R. Krieger]

[QUOTE="robeyf"] C.R. - Good comments.[/QUOTE]

And the same for yourself. Since it's about time to end this thread (nobody wants three pages, eh?), I have one request:

If you're not going to use paragraphs, could you at least make that fish stop jumpin' while I'm tryin' to read your posts?

[robeyff]

could you at least make that fish stop jumpin' while I'm tryin' to read your posts?

Yeah, I'm sick of it too, but I haven't been able to find a good Christmas one anywhere - no Santas in M5s, no elves changing tires - but I will get that annoying sea creature off soon. (@)

[dcbrewmeister]

So what does the "W" stand for anyway?

[robeyff]

So what does the "W" stand for anyway?

Walker - George Walker Bush.

[dcbrewmeister]

I knew I should've put the shit-eatin'-grin smiley face on...