VOTE tomorrow!

[w0014170]

Well what do you mean by anti-intellectual? I think that if someone like Buckley came along, who inexplicably spoke with the Queen's accent, summered in France, and used words like he read a thesaurus in his free time, wouldn't fit the "guy I want to have a beer with" or "joe the plumber" or even the "i grew up in Scranton and spend a lot of free time in Home Depot in Dover (WTF?)" mold. If you are a Buckley (or Adlai Stevenson) you are suddenly an out of touch elitist.

I am sorry, but there is a reason why Thomas Jefferson should be president and not Joe the sharecropper.

I want to give a HUGE PLUS ONE to this. This is my primary reason for voting against the republican party in this election. I cannot bear the attacks on intellectualism, basically damning anyone who busts ass for a good education as "too good" to lead. It is the most damaging, most asinine, most discouraging drumbeat I've heard in my life. And it is the most hypocritically-applied argument, as well.

Bush II, the Dim Son, was legacied into Yale as the son of a Senator, where he would have failed if it weren't for the standard Ivy grade inflation. He was admitted was by his name to Harvard, and with an MBA from that prestigious institution, was only marginally successful (being kind here) in the business world. So this guy with two Ivy League degrees, this guy who was born into privilege in Connecticut, moves to Texas, develops a drawl, and all of a sudden he's just a-one of us good-ole-boys. McCain, the son and grandson of Navy Admirals, goes to the Academy where he is a famous fuck-up, loses three planes of which one is considered an at-fault loss and one is dubious, and enters Congress. He ditches his first wife after she's disfigured in a car wreck and marries into money. He's just a good-ole-boy too. But Obama, that guy who was raised by a single mom for most of his life, attended public schools, went to college on loans, got decent--not great--grades, but did well enough on the LSAT to get into Harvard Law and does well enough there to win numerous awards, he's an intellectual elitist who is out of touch.

The way I see it being used by Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, Rove, and other bottom-feeding scum is this: if you provide an argument to them that they cannot rationally respond to, you are an intellectual elitist. That's it. It's a huge cop-out, and it gets millions of rabid, irrational people fired up about voting against those east-coast liberals who want to take away your guns and money. Absolutely ridiculous.

I think the President should be someone of exceptional intellect, above-average speaking skills, great political and historical knowledge, and familiarity with how his constituency lives and works. Joe the Plumber can fix my toilet and earn his $80/hour, that's fine with me and he'll probably make more than I will teaching at a small college. But I'll be damned if he's going to be setting policy on my watch.

-tammer

Normally I agree with your post's but this is non-sense.

The Presidency and other high offices are begging for what is an overused term, a "minority" candidate. And I agree, but not this guy, he is tainted by radical associations and beliefs, does not tell the truth about his associations with those that would see this country destroyed, or in his and his wifes statement "change for the better the way WE envision America."

As stated earlier, the "turn-out" for this vote is more about "our man" than any real knowledge of the issues and candidates. I asked a couple guys why and was told "cause he is one of us and it's our time". Yea, that's knowledge at it's best.

I agree with your assessment that a change from the past is a necessity. It should be about substance and not sizzle.

Name calling I would think is below your level of education & intelligence; you can understand why I'm surprised you indulged in the practice. What kills me about this political belief, is you and others believe that within the Democratic party, you've had enough of the Clintons (fallen from grace?) and wanted no more of that, yet you pick a known radical, gifted as a scripted speech giver, married to a true racist with an "elitist" education and somehow rationalize the choice with logic. I'm surprised Tammer by your choice, there were better qualified Democrats capable of the nomination than this guy.

I'm pleased I've amassed enough income in the last 30 years to sit out the potential disaster that might occur if he is elected and runs unchecked in the office, through ignorance or bliss.

He is the wrong choice for America
Doug

and the other one is the right choice?

Not what I said. I said he is not the right choice.

[Tammer in Philly]

I disagree, and some of the statements and claims you've made against McCain are completely wrong. I'll leave it at that.

I didn't want it to go here either, but I'm not the one who came out saying that people were only coming out to vote themselves unearned wealth from Obama.

Some facts about McCain:
Naval academy graduation rank 894/899, despite being an intelligent person (read: poor work ethic).
McCain and planes: lost 3, nearly lost another while causing a "small international incident" by taking out some power lines. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/d ... id_he.html Be sure to read through the updates.
His first marriage, Carol's car wreck, and that he was issued a marriage certificate to Cindy before finalizing his first divorce are well-documented in many places. I'll grant that after a traumatic experience (POW), people often make drastic changes in their lives, but I think that is a poor reflection on his character. YMMV.
That McCain's father and grandfather were Admirals is also well-documented. In his own memoir, McCain relates the story of his youthful impatience: when asked to circle in a holding pattern after a flight, he said to the tower, "Let me land, or I'll take my field and go home." He was stationed at (you guessed it) McCain Field.

All of this is published in non-biased sources, which I'd be happy to look up for you if you like. I wrote nothing controversial about McCain. The only opinion I voiced is that his father's rank got him privileges that others with his academic or performance record would not have had.

My initial post in this thread was to go vote and support the candidate of your choosing. It was not intended to be a thread to smear supporters of one candidate or the other, or to smear the candidates themselves. I'm not exactly going to sit silently by while a large portion of the population is painted with a pretty nasty brush, though. There are supporters of both candidates who respond to hateful advertising, and they cast their votes irrationally. Neither side has a lock on that. I'm sure people would have been equally offended if I came in here and said that the only reason people are coming out in droves to support McCain is that they believe Obama is a Muslim and they are all Islamophobes.

I don't care who you vote for, as long as you reach that decision using reason, the best information you can find, and a filter on the crap that both sides fling.

-tammer

[Cory]

Can't we all just get along?
Disclaimer:
I feel that Rodney King should have had the shit kicked out of him.

[Tammer in Philly]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... equel.html
Worth reading to filter the crap from both sides I referenced above.

Hopefully you did your filtering before voting.
-tammer

[C.R. Krieger]

I dunno about the rest of you, but I rode to the polling place!

Then, under five minutes in and out. It's a special enough day when I can still be driving my BMW (that does not see snow) on the first Tuesday in November. It's f***in' amazing when I can ride the other one! Better yet, I'm not even in leather today. It's too hot!

WOOT! 8)


Finally, a special message for all you McCain supporters: Get out there and do what Tammer says - vote tomorrow!

[w0014170]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... equel.html
Worth reading to filter the crap from both sides I referenced above.

Hopefully you did your filtering before voting.
-tammer

Certainly a great website for un-altered information. I've used it recently as well.

I did not say that individuals were voting for Obama based upon the receipt of unearned wealth. I said that there is a large majority of individuals that have never voted until a candidate they claim as "one of our own" came to the race and have no more concern than that.
This fact has been documented as accurate by several polling sources though represented differently by both camps.

The fact that an "informed" vote with factual information and not bullshit, is the accurate statement. With that I agree.

Being in the business of politics is nearly as distastfull to me as George Clooney deciding Foreign Policy based upon his great knowledge of the CIA's involvement in the Middle East.

Doug

[Tammer in Philly]

Being in the business of politics is nearly as distastfull to me as George Clooney deciding Foreign Policy based upon his great knowledge of the CIA's involvement in the Middle East.

Doug

You've got a point. I would be 100% in favor of term limits for every position--no career politicians, period. Something like 4 terms in the House and 2 terms in the Senate, but a total per person of 16 years in Congress. That would be enough time (8 years or 12 years in each body, respectively) to ensure institutional memory and continuity, but short enough that politicians would need a "real job" at some point as well. It would also guarantee fresh blood in Congress with a higher turnover rate. I think this would really limit the corruption and help keep the public servants' attention focused on their constituents.

-tammer

[johnnye23]

I voted,that is all.Johnny

[Mark 88/M5 Houston]

I dunno about the rest of you, but I rode to the polling place!

Then, under five minutes in and out. It's a special enough day when I can still be driving my BMW (that does not see snow) on the first Tuesday in November. It's f***in' amazing when I can ride the other one! Better yet, I'm not even in leather today. It's too hot!

WOOT! 8)


Finally, a special message for all you McCain supporters: Get out there and do what Tammer says - vote tomorrow!

I rode to the polling location last week after work (I ride every day that it isn't storming when it is time for me to leave for work). In and out in about an hour. I was really nervous (think long tailed cat in a room full of occupied rocking chairs) on the RS with all the cagers looking for parking spaces while yakking on their cell phones in a community center parking lot with no where near enough spaces for the number of voters.

[Tammer in Philly]

I dunno about the rest of you, but I rode to the polling place!

I rode to the polling location last week after work

I suppose that in your italicized world, my bicycle doesn't count as "riding," eh? ;-)

-tammer

[MakeMyDay]

Well what do you mean by anti-intellectual? I think that if someone like Buckley came along, who inexplicably spoke with the Queen's accent, summered in France, and used words like he read a thesaurus in his free time, wouldn't fit the "guy I want to have a beer with" or "joe the plumber" or even the "i grew up in Scranton and spend a lot of free time in Home Depot in Dover (WTF?)" mold. If you are a Buckley (or Adlai Stevenson) you are suddenly an out of touch elitist.

I am sorry, but there is a reason why Thomas Jefferson should be president and not Joe the sharecropper.

I want to give a HUGE PLUS ONE to this. This is my primary reason for voting against the republican party in this election. I cannot bear the attacks on intellectualism, basically damning anyone who busts ass for a good education as "too good" to lead. It is the most damaging, most asinine, most discouraging drumbeat I've heard in my life. And it is the most hypocritically-applied argument, as well.

Bush II, the Dim Son, was legacied into Yale as the son of a Senator, where he would have failed if it weren't for the standard Ivy grade inflation. He was admitted was by his name to Harvard, and with an MBA from that prestigious institution, was only marginally successful (being kind here) in the business world. So this guy with two Ivy League degrees, this guy who was born into privilege in Connecticut, moves to Texas, develops a drawl, and all of a sudden he's just a-one of us good-ole-boys. McCain, the son and grandson of Navy Admirals, goes to the Academy where he is a famous fuck-up, loses three planes of which one is considered an at-fault loss and one is dubious, and enters Congress. He ditches his first wife after she's disfigured in a car wreck and marries into money. He's just a good-ole-boy too. But Obama, that guy who was raised by a single mom for most of his life, attended public schools, went to college on loans, got decent--not great--grades, but did well enough on the LSAT to get into Harvard Law and does well enough there to win numerous awards, he's an intellectual elitist who is out of touch.

The way I see it being used by Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, Rove, and other bottom-feeding scum is this: if you provide an argument to them that they cannot rationally respond to, you are an intellectual elitist. That's it. It's a huge cop-out, and it gets millions of rabid, irrational people fired up about voting against those east-coast liberals who want to take away your guns and money. Absolutely ridiculous.

I think the President should be someone of exceptional intellect, above-average speaking skills, great political and historical knowledge, and familiarity with how his constituency lives and works. Joe the Plumber can fix my toilet and earn his $80/hour, that's fine with me and he'll probably make more than I will teaching at a small college. But I'll be damned if he's going to be setting policy on my watch.

-tammer

That sounds about right.....and I'm not even from the US (UK). But I am more aware that almost anyone from the USA about how your great country (and it is great, make no mistake) has had nothing less than a PR disaster under Bush 11 - the clown sequel. The trouble is, his stupidity reflects badly on the rest of you and in the eyes of the world, you need Obama very badly to put the 'Warmongering Yank' image to bed. For that you have idiots like Bush 11 and calculating villains like Cheney to thank

McCain just smacks of bad news. When he came on TV and said 'I know How to win a War', that set alarm bells ringing.

How do you know how to win a war, John? Do tell us.

Which war are you planning to win John? The one Bush started with our very own prize idiot Tony Bliar, or a fresh new one?

Don't get me started on Palin - when old Fart McCain drops dead in a couple of years, she's going to be in charge. God help us all then.

[Mark 88/M5 Houston]

I dunno about the rest of you, but I rode to the polling place!

I rode to the polling location last week after work

I suppose that in your italicized world, my bicycle doesn't count as "riding," eh?

-tammer

Your bicycle definitely counts in my book.
My current commuter ride is motorized ('84 R100RS) but I'm starting to get in shape for the MS 150 in April. For that I'll be riding a Trek composite (Aluminum triangle and carbon stays and forks) frame with all top line Campy drive train and braking components. I'm starting my training on an older Trek touring bike I built up 20+years ago with a Reynolds 531 frame and forks with a very solid mismashed group of components with many, many miles on it.

[C.R. Krieger]

I suppose that in your italicized world, my bicycle doesn't count as "riding," eh?

-tammer

What? Can't hear you over the exhaust!