BMW has fallen.

[Fedaykin528e]

This.



Most of this language isn't applicable any more.

Ok, now I'll stop whining.

[BRRV]

Excitement in a plain vanilla wrapper. Yep, I remember. They weren't kit-car foolish, like SAAB, or abysmally quirky like Volvo, or haughty like Mercedes. THE ENGINE was the thing, in a chassis to match. A "drivers car", with controls that weren't feather-light. Every female who has ever driven my E28 says it the same way - "this is a mans' car". Amen.

But this doesn't work nowadays. With the majority of new car buyers being either a) female, or b) a female in the family is the ultimate decision-maker (for better or for worse) BMW can't sell their premium-grade sedans or other vehicles this way anymore (too many skeerdy-cat fems that don't much like cars except as boring transportation [Lexus]). Yet, I sympathize - they certainly don't seem to emphasize the very nature of "The Ultimate Driving Machine" much anymore, and when they do, the "Ultimate" seems to relate more to safety and security than it does to engineering excellence or race-bred road manners. And those two things are very likely the reason that an E28 can still embarrass a lot of cars made even today (except at a stoplight: the wind-up cars, geared for endless 0-40 drag races between stop lights downtown, win easily).

[CSBM5]

This.



Most of this language isn't applicable any more.

Ok, now I'll stop whining.

Having bought a 1985 535i (5spd, LSD) in 1986 when it was almost new, I don't see how the language isn't applicable anymore. If anything, it's the inverse in most all regards. The 535i was for my wife's daily driver as our first kid was born since we wanted something safe (first year of ABS, good crash design of E28) and fun to drive. However, a totally stock 535i needed help right away in our opinion hence it got the (new at the time) adjustable Konis, Dinan sway bars f&r, and 16" Rial wheels (to ditch the awful TRX junk). My daily at the time was a heavily modified E21 and an even more modified E3 Bavaria.

Today she's been driving an E90 330i (loaded up with most everything but still with a 6MT) for almost 8 years now, and it is a great car. Loads of fun to drive, excellent sport package seats, faster than an E28 M5 and much better handling, gets 32-33mpg at 75mph, 0-60 in 5.6, 99mph trap speed in the 1/4 -- the most interesting part of that car is it is the most reliable car I've ever owned. With 119k miles on it now, it's been 69k miles since the warranty expired, and has only required a door lock actuator, valve cover gasket, and oil filter housing gasket.

Perhaps I'm just skewed in my view of "modern BMW" to some extent (although I've been a BMW fan since 1971) since I attach most of that view to my E39 M5 and E90 M3. The M3 is an incredible machine. I've done one mod to it (Dinan front sway bar) for F-stock SCCA tire class autocross, and the car is unreal on course. The S65 torque curve is perfect as it can really put down the power coming off elements and hits so damn hard up high, but he progression allows it really shine. It's a blast to drive, by far the most fun, stock, BMW I've ever owned/driven although the E39 M5 is a close 2nd.

Drive an E90 M3 like it's meant to be driven...the language (mentioned above) is far more applicable than it was in 1985.

[M. Holtmeier]

You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone on this forum that an e90 m3 is better than an e28 m5.

[CSBM5]

You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone on this forum that an e90 m3 is better than an e28 m5.

Not trying to convince anyone...just stating an opinion from the standpoint of having lived through the whole experience. Heck, from a performance standpoint, my 72 Bavaria easily out-handled and out-performed the E28 M5 when it came out (speaking from direct experience on track at Summit Point against friend's M5 and M635CSi back in the day).

But that's not the point of any of these cars imo. If one can't enjoy the E90 M3 driven 9.8/10ths on course, then I doubt the same person could enjoy an E28 M5 either.

BTW, performance-wise, up above, I was comparing the E28 M5 to the E90 330i (with the N52 normally aspirated 6-cylinder). Of course against an E90 M3 it's not even close...0-100mph in 9.6 seconds sure is fun in the M3 though.

[M. Holtmeier]

I may have written that with a tinge of sarcasm.

I recently replaced most of the front suspension and steering components on an e90 330i with the old n52. I remember during the road test I was thinking how strong those motors felt in an e90. It was a nice car- other than being owned by an alcoholic who couldn't avoid curbs even with a starter lockout device installed.

[rmiddendorf]

This.



Most of this language isn't applicable any more.

Ok, now I'll stop whining.

Having bought a 1985 535i (5spd, LSD) in 1986 when it was almost new, I don't see how the language isn't applicable anymore. If anything, it's the inverse in most all regards. The 535i was for my wife's daily driver as our first kid was born since we wanted something safe (first year of ABS, good crash design of E28) and fun to drive. However, a totally stock 535i needed help right away in our opinion hence it got the (new at the time) adjustable Konis, Dinan sway bars f&r, and 16" Rial wheels (to ditch the awful TRX junk). My daily at the time was a heavily modified E21 and an even more modified E3 Bavaria.

Today she's been driving an E90 330i (loaded up with most everything but still with a 6MT) for almost 8 years now, and it is a great car. Loads of fun to drive, excellent sport package seats, faster than an E28 M5 and much better handling, gets 32-33mpg at 75mph, 0-60 in 5.6, 99mph trap speed in the 1/4 -- the most interesting part of that car is it is the most reliable car I've ever owned. With 119k miles on it now, it's been 69k miles since the warranty expired, and has only required a door lock actuator, valve cover gasket, and oil filter housing gasket.

Perhaps I'm just skewed in my view of "modern BMW" to some extent (although I've been a BMW fan since 1971) since I attach most of that view to my E39 M5 and E90 M3. The M3 is an incredible machine. I've done one mod to it (Dinan front sway bar) for F-stock SCCA tire class autocross, and the car is unreal on course. The S65 torque curve is perfect as it can really put down the power coming off elements and hits so damn hard up high, but he progression allows it really shine. It's a blast to drive, by far the most fun, stock, BMW I've ever owned/driven although the E39 M5 is a close 2nd.

Drive an E90 M3 like it's meant to be driven...the language (mentioned above) is far more applicable than it was in 1985.

I don't necessarily agree with everything here, but I bought my E90 Sport because it specs out so similarily to the E28 ///M5. Its not near as engaging to drive though.

[dsmith]

I drive a Ford Aspire. Based on that, I find the tech in new cars alarming and completely unnecessary. I find it unfortunate that when one manufacturer adds more crap that everyone feels the need to fall in line.

At least 80s BMWs and Mercedes will last the rest of my driving life, so I really dont care what car makers do anymore.

[Murfinator]

In 2009 I recall the unveiling of the X5 and X6 M's at the BMWCCA West Coast Concours in Monterey. BMW's West Coast Sales Manager(?) basically paid lip-service to enthusiasts, who were vomiting all over the automatic transmission/forced induction/SUV's (the antithesis of an M-car), and said it's all about making money and not so much about impressing the true enthusiasts or keeping them happy.

I agree with most of what's been said. Especially the over-complexity of the newer models often necessitating a trip to the stealership for diagnostics because many of BMW's trouble codes show only generic descriptions on standard readers.

As with any car off an assembly line: they are a collection of compromises for the sake of sales and profit margin. For this reason and others I choose to replace most OE parts with aftermarket .

[CSBM5]

Especially the over-complexity of the newer models often necessitating a trip to the stealership for diagnostics because many of BMW's trouble codes show only generic descriptions on standard readers.

http://www.bcables.com is an inexpensive solution to full diagnostics and coding capability. Autoenginuity also has a full featured solution that I've used for years now.

I lived through the transition from carbs to FI and bitched about it like a baby 35 years ago; now in my 50s I've totally accepted and gone with the flow of modern systems. It's really not that complicated for 99.5% of stuff (like how the internet makes battery registration sound like a disaster when in fact it takes one mouse click in either of the above).

[Mike W.]

Especially the over-complexity of the newer models often necessitating a trip to the stealership for diagnostics because many of BMW's trouble codes show only generic descriptions on standard readers.

http://www.bcables.com is an inexpensive solution to full diagnostics and coding capability. Autoenginuity also has a full featured solution that I've used for years now.

I lived through the transition from carbs to FI and bitched about it like a baby 35 years ago; now in my 50s I've totally accepted and gone with the flow of modern systems. It's really not that complicated for 99.5% of stuff (like how the internet makes battery registration sound like a disaster when in fact it takes one mouse click in either of the above).

So tell me more about that cable. With an E36 and E39 in the stable OBC is a reality and useful, but vague. Would I really need the early adapter for an OBC II car with the round plug too? Any additional software or does it come with all of it? Looks interesting.

[CSBM5]

So tell me more about that cable. With an E36 and E39 in the stable OBC is a reality and useful, but vague. Would I really need the early adapter for an OBC II car with the round plug too? Any additional software or does it come with all of it? Looks interesting.

Can't comment on the E36, but on all my current cars, I simply plug into the OBDII port and connect to the car in the s/w. I've not done any coding yet in NCS Expert, but at some point plan to enable Euro MDM mode in the M3...it's apparently just one click and a write command.

There are LOTS of links to using INPA/NSC Expert/DIS, etc, to found on various boards.

Here is a useful one that likely will answer your questions:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showth ... p?t=561237

[rmiddendorf]

Especially the over-complexity of the newer models often necessitating a trip to the stealership for diagnostics because many of BMW's trouble codes show only generic descriptions on standard readers.

http://www.bcables.com is an inexpensive solution to full diagnostics and coding capability. Autoenginuity also has a full featured solution that I've used for years now.

I lived through the transition from carbs to FI and bitched about it like a baby 35 years ago; now in my 50s I've totally accepted and gone with the flow of modern systems. It's really not that complicated for 99.5% of stuff (like how the internet makes battery registration sound like a disaster when in fact it takes one mouse click in either of the above).

I've been wanting to draw the exact same comparison to the carb/FI thing on this matter as well but have been too lazy to type on my phone that much.

I'll have to do more research on that cable system. The BavTechnic system interested me at one point as well. Solving this problem dynamically changes my problem solving paradigm on my next car purchase.

[Mike W.]

Interesting, I should probably get one now before my next E39 abnomality, like Internal memory module checksum error like I got a few years ago. Must be a huge program, needs 20 or 40G HD space depending on how you set it up. I wonder if my old laptop is fast enough, I do have plenty of HD room though. Thanks!

[WilNJ]

Interesting, I should probably get one now before my next E39 abnomality, like Internal memory module checksum error like I got a few years ago. Must be a huge program, needs 20 or 40G HD space depending on how you set it up. I wonder if my old laptop is fast enough, I do have plenty of HD room though. Thanks!

VW has a similar system, it's now known as VCDS, formerly known as VAG-COM. For many DIY services, it's a must have, down to simple stuff like rear brake pad changes (there's a function in the software to retract the rear caliper, this is a result of a few unnecessarily complex bells and whistles in the braking system).

It also allows one to enable features that may have only been available on ROW or premium versions of the car like rear fog lamps or enabling the phone button on the Multi-Function Steering Wheel.

Seems like those BMW cables are much more reasonable in cost, as the fully functional VW version for my car is $250 with free software updates.

[dsmith]

When y'all figure out how to diagnose and recode proprietary canbus strings, let me know. Dealers are 50/50 on accurate repairs using factory equipment. I'm sorry, but the carb to efi argument is not the same and every incorrect diagnosis is another $1000 module.

People say the market will catch up, but it has been a good 15 years and no good diy solutions exist.

Here's one of my favorite efforts to crack some codes:

http://www.honeysw.com/canproject.php

I believe many of the codes are rolling now to help prevent external hacking.