I'm Now Hooked on Auto Cross

[Nicke28]

As far as BMW's are concerned I think a e28 would make a better SCCA prepped stock auto-x car than a normal e90/F-whatever 3 or 5 series. Mainly because of weight. Changing out shocks, springs, wheels and tires helps cure the e28's biggest limitations, suspension and grip. Plus you can run a LSD.

The M5 fits in ES as an NOC car. I think it could be a potential divisional contender in the right hands.

Can't change springs in SCCA-stock, only dampers. You can run alternate wheels so long as they are of the same dimensions as stock... and not just any wheels from that generation, but the wheels that were stock on the trim-level of the car itself. So, you couldn't run M5 sized wheels on anything other than an M5.

Now, with the TRX wheels, I'm guessing/hoping the SCCA would allow a variance to let someone run 15" rims.

The M5 might be good in ES prep, but the current top-car in is is something like either a Miata (one of the few perennial champs in a stock-class) or an MR2-Turbo... that's a tough draw. But, you're right, Divisional or just Regional level, a good M5 + driver should be able to do well.

I bet it'd be a hoot to drive at any rate

Oppps... regional was what I was suppose to say.

I just looked over the solo rule book for the first time in a long time and the M5 is listed under F Stock. The biggest FS foe looks to be the various Mustang GT's.

Another interesting FS addition is the e30 M3.

[jamesohoh7]

They do allow a variance it seems.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/ass ... educed.pdf


13.4 WHEELS
Any type wheel may be used provided it complies with the following: it
is the same width and diameter as standard, and as installed (including
wheel spacers if applicable) it does not have an offset more than
+/- 0.25 inch from a standard wheel for the car. The resultant change in
track dimensions is allowed.

Wheel spacers are permitted, provided the resultant combination complies

with the offset requirements of this section. Wheel studs, lug nuts,
and/or bolt length may be changed.
Vehicles equipped with rims having metric specifications may use alternate
rims as determined by using the following procedure:
Diameter: converting the metric measurement to inches and using
the nearest smaller inch diameter rim.
Width: converting the metric measurement to inches and using the
nearest smaller 1/2-inch width rim. Offset and track must still comply
with the requirements of this section.

[jamesohoh7]

As far as BMW's are concerned I think a e28 would make a better SCCA prepped stock auto-x car than a normal e90/F-whatever 3 or 5 series. Mainly because of weight. Changing out shocks, springs, wheels and tires helps cure the e28's biggest limitations, suspension and grip. Plus you can run a LSD.

The M5 fits in ES as an NOC car. I think it could be a potential divisional contender in the right hands.

Can't change springs in SCCA-stock, only dampers. You can run alternate wheels so long as they are of the same dimensions as stock... and not just any wheels from that generation, but the wheels that were stock on the trim-level of the car itself. So, you couldn't run M5 sized wheels on anything other than an M5.

Now, with the TRX wheels, I'm guessing/hoping the SCCA would allow a variance to let someone run 15" rims.

The M5 might be good in ES prep, but the current top-car in is is something like either a Miata (one of the few perennial champs in a stock-class) or an MR2-Turbo... that's a tough draw. But, you're right, Divisional or just Regional level, a good M5 + driver should be able to do well.

I bet it'd be a hoot to drive at any rate

Oppps... regional was what I was suppose to say.

I just looked over the solo rule book for the first time in a long time and the M5 is listed under F Stock. The biggest FS foe looks to be the various Mustang GT's.

I'd fancy my chances against a Mustang better than a Miata if I had an M5 to race Do it!

[wkohler]

Must be new.

[Shawn D.]

Where do you intend to run a stock e28 then? Is there a vintage-bmw-autox club out there? I imagine the car could indeed compete if the class cut off participation to newer cars.

I don't intend to run a stock E28 anywhere -- I was discussing someone running a stock, near-stock, or mildly-modified E28 in SCCA. I run my mildly-modified 535i in the Peachtree Chapter BMW CCA series. Here's how we class the cars (it still has bugs in it -- I don't like competing against E9X cars, but I still beat them). You can find me in the results for C Class:

http://www.racersmarket.net/autox/2012event01_fin.htm

http://www.racersmarket.net/autox/2012Event02_fin.htm

http://www.racersmarket.net/autox/2012Event03_fin.htm

http://www.racersmarket.net/autox/2012event04_fin.htm

[Nicke28]

My example is a little too far out of stock prep, but we might know someone with a stock M5.

I also noticed that they dropped the M5 exclusion from STX.

[wkohler]

My example is a little too far out of stock prep, but we might know someone with a stock M5.

I also noticed that they dropped the M5 exclusion from STX.

Now that is bullshit. I ran my 535is in STX. My touring would fall in STX.

[jamesohoh7]

Where do you intend to run a stock e28 then? Is there a vintage-bmw-autox club out there? I imagine the car could indeed compete if the class cut off participation to newer cars.

I don't intend to run a stock E28 anywhere -- I was discussing someone running a stock, near-stock, or mildly-modified E28 in SCCA. I run my mildly-modified 535i in the Peachtree Chapter BMW CCA series. Here's how we class the cars (it still has bugs in it -- I don't like competing against E9X cars, but I still beat them). You can find me in the results for C Class:

http://www.racersmarket.net/autox/2012event01_fin.htm

http://www.racersmarket.net/autox/2012Event02_fin.htm

http://www.racersmarket.net/autox/2012Event03_fin.htm

http://www.racersmarket.net/autox/2012event04_fin.htm

My Bad... I read this exchange and thought that you were running a stock e28 somewhere.
==================
jamesohoh7 wrote:
Bottom line: who fives a guck that an e28 is hopeless in stock?

shawn d wrote:
Those of us who have them and don't care to buy another car.
==================
(yeah, I hosed up the quoting, doh!)

Anyway.. nice job sticking it to the newer cars though! Hold it down for the e28's

[Nicke28]

My example is a little too far out of stock prep, but we might know someone with a stock M5.

I also noticed that they dropped the M5 exclusion from STX.

Now that is bullshit. I ran my 535is in STX. My touring would fall in STX.

[Scottinva]

What gets me isn't classing an e28. What gets me is how "stock" is supposed to be a budgetish class. Where you can do slight modifications and be competitive. Except that in SS the top cars are c6 z06's with hoosier slicks, because we all know thats cheap to run.

[mattur]

I run my GTO in FS and its quite competitive class though the GT Mustang variants always take the class. The E28, when I had it was run in FS as well with no objections to my 15" wheels but it was a regional event so no one really cared and I also wanted to be in a class with other cars, no Street Prepared F-class.

I think what makes stock classes cheaper than others is the ability to take your daily driver (though you'll have to choose that DD carefully) and just have upkeep and tires to pay for. The Mustang GT guys are a great example. Had I given autocross serious thought when I bought my DD I would've ended up with a '07 or better GT and used that... same cost to me as the GTO (relatively...) and I could be more competitive in the class. If I could drive well... Lol.

[Nicke28]

By default the stock classes are going to be flavor of the day classes being that you have no way of overcoming a certain cars limitations through mods. If you don't have an unlimited budget to buy a new car every other year just stick to regional events and you'll be ok.

The clubracing showroom stock and T classes are probably worse off as far as being flavor of the day classes. Or as Scott Tucker found out, if you happen to win the runoffs with a unpopular car, that particular car will get De-listed for the following season.

[jamesohoh7]

Yep!

If you just monitor the nationals-level results for a few months, you will notice that there's kind of a set of 'tiers' of cars in every class... the 'all dominant', the 'sometimes dominant', the 'rain car' (usually AWD), and 'the fluke that wins only on [very contrived]-type courses'... then a bunch of also-rans that might trophy with good drivers in spite of the ill-handling of the cars.

Then, every once in a while, there's a potential game-changer.

There's buzz that the new 'Toy-Baru' car is going to dominate whatever class they eventually stick it in, for example. It weighs a little more than an MX5 but has an additional 30'ish horsepower, better weight distribution and lower CG. Does that guarantee it'll be "the one to have"?.. nope... but only the truly committed 'Stock' class racers are going to dump 25K on a new car to find out. THEN!.. they'll dump 8K into a set of bespoke Motons with more knobs and adjustments than an old Blaupunkt... and then buy 4 sets of Hoosier A6s.

Stock is 'cheap' right?... not at this level.

However, locally, just go and have fun!


Oh, the 15" wheels thing for e28s has been allowed since at least 2002. I found an old copy of the scca rules on-line and the same verbiage is in there as in the 2012 rules I posted earlier. If anyone is giving someone grief about wheels on their e28, then they need to tell the local rules-folks to go check out the rules.

2003 rules, but shows any changes in italics... the wheel-rule is not in italics, so we know it must be the same as the prior year:
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/stock.html
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/stock.html#s134

[mattur]

Stock is 'cheap' right?... not at this level.

Yeah, I don't think any racing is cheap at the national level if you want to be the winner, no matter how they try to trim costs, like Lemons and other types of racing. You can be competitive somewhat, but like you said the most you should hope for is just having fun. Not like anybody here has delusions of becoming the next F1 hero and the girls at these events aren't usually noteworthy either nor do they walk around half naked, so there goes your 'Fast'n'Furious' fantasies too, lol.

[C.R. Krieger]

I run my GTO in FS and its quite competitive class though the GT Mustang variants always take the class. The E28, when I had it was run in FS as well with no objections to my 15" wheels but it was a regional event so no one really cared and I also wanted to be in a class with other cars, no Street Prepared F-class.

Yeah; regional events are a lot less tightly run in most places. If you're the only car in a class, they're usually happy to let you 'bump' into a higher one so you're competing against somebody. Last time I ran with SCCA, though, the 535is was in G Stock ...

[Scottinva]

Shoot at local events, you could lie your butt off about the class unless you were really obviously out of place. They won't even mess with you unless your out there dominating, which if your a novice in an e28 that isn't going to happen.

[w0014170]

....She came out of the alcove and asked me what the hell I was doing,I told her I was practicing control in a skid and excercising the car alittle and was politely told to continue in some other parish. Her parting words with a smile were "that looked kinda neat by the way".

...and then, this crazy music started playing in my head.. and then...




kidding, kidding... just thought it was a good opportunity for some fun here