my m88/3 bullshite project thread

[winfred]

test drive accomplished and it not only runs its runs real good, i took the first lap around the block and as the computer adjusted it just kept getting more powerful, let kyle take take a lap and it was frisky enough by the end of that one he did a burn out would've played with it more but didn't have a power steering belt on it and no power brakes was starting to suck

I must know how this sounds!

fucking badass, ill let kyle give his account but id say its perfectly balanced with induction noise and has a nice deep burble even at 6k, i have the same resonator on my supercharged e30 with a b&b triflow from a e34 535

the exhaust while it was on the 633


and the resonator on the e30, didn't think to snap a shot of the one on the 6, because the e30 is not as wide i had to pie cut the pipes to shift them a little to line up with the header flanges, didn't need to do that on the 6 and am using 2" band clamps to attach them to the euro headers, one of the e39 pipes is a little over 2" od and the other is 2" id, the small pipe is a bit too small for the band clamp to accommodate but a piece of the big pipe heated fits over the small pipe

[winfred]

http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy20 ... 5d63a6.mp4

wala, sounds meaner in person as a iphone in the ashtray can only do so much

I must know how this sounds!

[1st 5er]

http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy20 ... 5d63a6.mp4

wala, sounds meaner in person as a iphone in the ashtray can only do so much

I must know how this sounds!

Sweet music...

[ElGuappo]

I have an interesting tech doc from Bosch on Motronic 3.1 for the Formula 3 series.
Lots of good details.
Its >5mb so the uploader won't accept it, I'm looking for an alternate host that I can actually upload to from work...

edit for link: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bx8iPf ... 1RrdTc1TlU

[1st 5er]

http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy20 ... 5d63a6.mp4

wala, sounds meaner in person as a iphone in the ashtray can only do so much

I must know how this sounds!

Sweet music...

Should've added; "looks like it's about time to plan another trip through Baton Rouge".

[Mab1957]

Love it. Nice work.

[winfred]

it survived its first trip home, drives much better with the relatively fresh looking front suspension from the euro barnacle, the billies even seem tight, did some investigation and the sway bars are the same front and rear as the 635 which is annoying, it does have barely dirty new bmw springs for the front, single gray stripe if anyone knows which, they have stickers but not enough of the # survives to be useful, looks like the original strut housings rotted away before the rest of the car as these have junkyard markings of 88 528 bmw. ill probably do the valve adjustment if i have my way tomorrow and maybe build a manometer and attempt to balance the throttles after that

[winfred]

adjusted the valves today and the intakes were pretty much on except for the two valves i had to change (duh) but the exhausts were mostly way off at around .008 with .006 being the worst. went about balancing the throttles next, the middle and rear TBs were about the same but the front was a bit lower then the others and the bleeds were already about closed, had to open up the middle and rear 4 to get a even reading across the motor, this coupled with the valve adjustment got a nice idle but also raised my already high idle from a grand to 1100, ill dissect the front unit and see whats up so i can back down the bypasses on the back 4, the stop didn't seen to be the issue but it was getting late and i didn't feel like tearing the linkage apart to see if that was keeping it from backing down further

[winfred]

tweaked the linkage and got the throttles balanced and the idle down to a better 960-1000 or so (was at around 1200 this morning), not perfect but much better and it has a nice idle. the ostrich II is on the way so i can play a little but won't be doing too much as i don't have a wideband yet, letting the wallet heal a little before i bang another almost $600 for a rpm capable WBO2 system. been driving it the last couple days and its pretty well behaved with a fairly smooth pull to redline, it is certainly not anyway near its proper power level as i am positive my b35 would make it its bitch, i suspect it wants a ton more off idle timing and fuel as it is nowhere near as responsive as it should be. watched the topgear where JC drives the aston vantage V12 at the end of the episode and damn if the m635s exhaust doesn't sound just like it, by far my best exhaust build

a shot of the resonator i am running in its natural habitat a e39 530

[winfred]

grabbed a few shots of the exhaust for the curious, its sucked right up into the cavity nicely but the back end needs a little tweaking, its hitting the corner of the diff and the tips are a little too short (not sure but the muffler may be built for a euro)






unpimped mine auto and aced the chrome knock off contours with inch too tall heavy tires suitable for a truck



an older topic, what ya gotta do to stick a later more powerful alternator on a b34 and older bracket, this one is a 115a unit from a m20 525, i was going to use a 140 from a 535 but it looked like it was going to have a fight with the oil cooler lines as it is a fatter chassis

an appropriate thickness washer to align the pulley between the alt and bracket, and a spacer for the rear bolt

[Revhead]

Are the hot wire airflow meters interchangeable between motronic 3.3 systems ie V8, M50 and B38? Just differ in bore size? I need to have a dig around the local bm breaker.
Also what happens if you run an B38 without the camshaft sensor connected?
Four years ago I had an M88/3 make 264bhp with Motronic 1 and with the miller chip it made 278bhp both on Dyno dynamics so using the hot wire meter must be worth a few hp. Is the M50TU computer used on all the hotted up engines that make close on 300hp like the Alpina B3.3 and 3.4 etc?

[winfred]

i have had the larger v8 maf on this one playing around and it didn't really change anything but i haven't enlarged the hole in the plenum box yet, i will weld in a larger stub to use the 3.5" unit eventually, a chip to run the larger maf is one of the m3 upgrades.
it should revert to gang or batch fire on the injection without a cam position, not sure if it limits anything as a safeguard.
as far as i know i am the first to do this with 3.3.1, i have seen some playing around with 3.1 on m20s and doubt i am alone in seeing potential in the system but haven't see it yet

i have all of the pieces to tune but half of the wideband system i got in friday is dead and only the secondary sensor input works while the primary is dead, from what i have seen watching the working channel the computer has leaned itself out too far compensating for the 24# injectors on a 3.5L, its looking for 17# units on a 2.5/3L, some of that is scaling and the rest is just a wrong fueling map, its not so bad as i have been driving it the last couple weeks off and on, not really hammering it but it still makes a sexy noise

Are the hot wire airflow meters interchangeable between motronic 3.3 systems ie V8, M50 and B38? Just differ in bore size? I need to have a dig around the local bm breaker.
Also what happens if you run an B38 without the camshaft sensor connected?
Four years ago I had an M88/3 make 264bhp with Motronic 1 and with the miller chip it made 278bhp both on Dyno dynamics so using the hot wire meter must be worth a few hp. Is the M50TU computer used on all the hotted up engines that make close on 300hp like the Alpina B3.3 and 3.4 etc?

[winfred]

did a little tuning and the ostrich II with turner pro works as easily as tuning my MSII with tuner studio, i was hoping it wouldn't be a flaming pain in the ass like the WAR chip with tuner cockblock

[Kyle in NO]

LoL @ tuner cockblock

[winfred]

did a little housekeeping and changed out some old rubber bits and cleaned up the c101 adapter, here is a shot of what ended up being used from both sides


while the plenum was off i installed the airboots i searched out, pretty much same as miller sells but about $100 less

and everything you need to know if you too want some, don't know if they do what miller says but they's cheaper then stock and mine were done


other mods accomplished were e31 4 pot brembo fronts and 25mm master cylinder, in the middle of that the abs pump decided to clog up a port so i swapped that out, and when i was ready to bleed the brakes the booster puked (pre vacuum boost e32 unit fits but you need to use the clevis from the e28/24, e32 one is too long), final finger up was the brake light switch snapping off, brakes are awesome now but i still need to change out the rears, arms and all from a e32 740/750, bearings instead of bushings and vented rotors but ill need to swap the stubs for the e28/24 units so the abs tone rings match the fronts

saw something interesting on ebay, a aftermarket balancer for a later s38 and it has the same tooth pattern as a m30b35, so the computer on the b38 must have the offset built into the chip to decode the wheel as the same generation computer that i am using has a totally different offset

[ronin]

This is awesome. Any more updates on how things are going? I'd love to see some more pics of the engine bay. Great work!

Eric

[winfred]

nothing meaningful, tweaking on the fuel maps what i can with the half functioning wideband unit, i am thinking about just sucking it up and buying a few hours on a dyno, id love to get my mitts on a timing map for a s38 so i can start from something right for the motor but i can't find any bin files for one and everything else i can find is for boost. ill try to pop some decent pics this weekend if i am not too busy with it or my suburban, it needs a compressor and starter and i need to do the rear trailing arms on the 6 to finish the brakes, and ifi am really feeling froggy i have another red hood for the 6 that doesn't look like someone fucked on it, but while lump free it has shit non factory paint that may be wet sandable

This is awesome. Any more updates on how things are going? I'd love to see some more pics of the engine bay. Great work!

Eric

[winfred]

i know yall gonna be putting in orders for that bangin heat shield



ill be building something from aluminum or maybe something better once i finalize the induction system, a less ghetto filter will be part of that, i am planning on opening up the plenum port for a 3.5" maf and don't want to build something that may not fit

couple shots of the rest, that shine you see is an illusion and the camera is being kind

needs moar rubber and one notch higher on the spring perches, euro M springs are perfect in the front but a hair leaux in the rear for my liking

mmmm comfy

i like the contrast of the only remaining tan interior piece

blacked the headliner

red screwdrivers bitches

[winfred]

running around town with mom and grandma today and when grandma wanted to hit the fabric shop i sat in the car and played with the timing a little, first i've touched it from the m50tu map and it likes what did, sounds and runs like efficient german sex, at this point i don't think the old shark can take it in a drag now but it ain't at max power yet. FAST is finally sending me another wideband unit so maybe i can do some real tuning instead of farting around

[winfred]

haven't really done much more then a slight fuel tweak since the last update, ain't perfect but not far enough from it to bother me and eventually i am going to invest in some dyno time, i want to see what its good for before i get froggy with some cams

[ronin]

Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted. I really like what you did.

BTW, what are those Recaros out of, do you know?

Thanks again,

Eric

[winfred]

got em from this guy http://www.ebay.com/sch/nut.onlineshop1 ... 7675.l2562 my 2nd set from him, he usually has a set of vintage take outs up on the bay, some home market jap cars came with recaros stock and this guy seems to harvest them. takes about 3 months to arrive on the slow boat from china

the same model seats in my e30

Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted. I really like what you did.

BTW, what are those Recaros out of, do you know?

Thanks again,

Eric

[winfred]

got around to adding the flange to the plenum for the 540 maf, been kinda dreading it but it went real easy, holesawed the old flange out and spoolguned the new one in about 10 minutes. i need to tweak the settings in the ostrich a little as the bigger MAF fattened it up a hair but not enough to be a concern today, now this is done i need to get some dyno time and fine tune the whore


slightly less ghetto heat shield (political signage can be real handy) i may eventually get a amsoil dry microfiber cone filter but for the time being ill recycle the one that was on my old supercharger in the e30, its new enough its only been washed once



the size difference between the new and old flanges

while i was at it i checked out my s38b36 project motors parts against the m88/3, trumpets are about 1/2" shorter on the b36, throttle body's are the same diameter at 46mm or i would've swapped them on too

[Kyle in NO]

BLUH-ZOW!

[winfred]

nothing too eventful lately besides the addition of AC, grabbed a pic or two while the plenum was off replacing a starter solenoid the other day

where the trumpets sit with the silicone boots, the copper pipe gets the vapor into the bottom of the plenum and further away from the intakes, seriously reduced the snot on the back of the car, completely eliminated the cloud of oil smoke on high rpm downshift and reduced oil consumption to a normal level. the little black thing on the left side is the air temp sensor


what the idle circuit looks like, m88/3 plumbing but the idle valve moved to before the branch so it can deliver more volume, the idle screw ontop is opened and no longer adjusts for the slow stock style valve

you can see where the front knock sensor is, rear is about the same spot


where the c101 adapter plug lives below the master, leave enough meat on the plug to get it out of the way

[ronin]

Hey winfred,

Just checking in to see how things are going with your engine. Any new developments? How's the ignition system doing? Just curious what sort of fuel economy you are seeing now?

One more question, is the copper pipe you show inside the plenum in all of the M88 plenums?

Thanks,

Eric

[winfred]

been too busy and its running good enough that i haven't had the need to screw with it, it gets 18-19 combined with a foot in its ass most of the time, the copper pipe is a addition i made, it seriously reduced oil consumption by getting the vapor in the bottom of the plenum further from the trumpets, i have a chunk of copper pot scrubber in the tube from the valve cover too, with nothing a high rpm down shift would produce quite a cloud of smoke, pipe and scrubber baffle took consumption from a qt in 500 to a qt in 2k+ miles (and i am fairly sure the viscosity modifier dieing was where that went)

[winfred]

lost a coil pac and detonated blowing the head gasket between 1 and 2, so.........fuck

naturally it happens when i am broke, i may firm up the finances for a little while and hit it with some cams while its apart, but will probably just slide in a new gasket after checking it over. ultimate would be build the b36 motor i picked up a while back into something nasty but that whole broke thing........

[Kyle in NO]

You could try Plasti-Dipping the HG and reinstalling. Pls.

[winfred]

was thinking more like