It'll be a couple days since I'll need to order them. Thanks guys! I wish I would have known to do that early on. All I saw in the Bentley was to do the ohm check.
Question, though. Since the speed sensor seems to maybe be OK, would the car start if the speed sensor is bad? Meaning, if I swap the speed & reference sensors, will the car run?
AFM Mixture Screw Adjust on Non-Cat Exhaust - SOLVED!
That sucks. There is an access cover. It is held on by the 4 small lower bolts from the trans bell housing and 4 bolts going up into the engine block. When you remove this you will be able to see the flywheel from the front of the car. You can then with a 36mm socket on the crank, rotating it manually, CLOCKWISE from the front of the car, look for what should be shown in a bunch of other posts.
Thank you for the destructions! I started doing this last night, but it got too late. I'll check the flywheel this weekend since I doubt I'll get a spark without an instrument cluster anyway. I pulled mine last night for another board member who needed an M cluster.m535is wrote:That sucks. There is an access cover. It is held on by the 4 small lower bolts from the trans bell housing and 4 bolts going up into the engine block. When you remove this you will be able to see the flywheel from the front of the car. You can then with a 36mm socket on the crank, rotating it manually, CLOCKWISE from the front of the car, look for what should be shown in a bunch of other posts.
OK - Finally got some free time tonight to tear into this. I got the flywheel cover off which was much easier than I expected. I didn't have anyone to help me turn the engine, so it was up/down/up/down with me marking where I left off by cleaning the flywheel. I'm not 100% sure I know what I'm looking for, but I looked at this thread first (half way down are pictures): http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=98 ... c&start=25
That's for an automatic, but what should the manual have? The same thing? I didn't see anything at all other than teeth and lots of them. But no gaps in the teeth at all. Is the pin supposed to be on the outside where it would be easy to see and a "can't miss it" kind of a thing, or do I really need to know what I'm looking for because it's easy to miss?
That's for an automatic, but what should the manual have? The same thing? I didn't see anything at all other than teeth and lots of them. But no gaps in the teeth at all. Is the pin supposed to be on the outside where it would be easy to see and a "can't miss it" kind of a thing, or do I really need to know what I'm looking for because it's easy to miss?
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mooseheadm5
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Alright, I think I found it. Thankfully I figured out that I could see the flywheel from the front of the car as I was turning the engine from the fan bolt. Anyway, here's a link to the photo:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1139 ... 7131093394
I think that's the flywheel pin, right?
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1139 ... 7131093394
I think that's the flywheel pin, right?
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mooseheadm5
- Posts: 23035
- Joined: Apr 08, 2009
- Location: Charlottesville, VA
- Contact:
I know there's power to the injectors and I can hear them "click". I'm confused as to how the pin can be there, yet I'm supposed to be getting .4 volts at crank on both the speed & reference sensors and I'm only getting 2.5/2.6 and .1/.2 respectively.
I don't want to continue just throwing $$ at this thing, but is all that's left is that the coil is bad and I should get a new one (even though this one was new in the fall)?
I don't want to continue just throwing $$ at this thing, but is all that's left is that the coil is bad and I should get a new one (even though this one was new in the fall)?
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mooseheadm5
- Posts: 23035
- Joined: Apr 08, 2009
- Location: Charlottesville, VA
- Contact:
The problem with trying to measure the AC voltage with a digital multimeter is that it samples and reports the voltage over a period of time. Also, the voltage is dependent upon cranking speed. Most of the time there is 0 V coming from the ref sensor. There is only voltage when the pin passes it. Depending on how quick that meter reacts and how often it samples, the AC voltage can read much lower than what you'd get with a scope.
Like I said, if the injectors are actually firing, the computer knows the motor is turning and how fast it is turning.
Just a thought, but this is kinda risky and best done with two people. Turn on the key. Pull the coil wire and give it a gap to jump to the engine (you probably don't want to hold it there, so use tape or something.) Briefly, like milliseconds, ground coil negative and then unground it. If there is a spark at the coil secondary wire, the coil works. What you are doing is acting like the computer or a set of points. Grounding the coil briefly charges it. Removing that ground again sends that charge to the coil secondary to make the spark. Remember that this will be a few amps of current, so you will also get a spark wherever you are grounding the coil negative to. Use thick wire and be safe.
Like I said, if the injectors are actually firing, the computer knows the motor is turning and how fast it is turning.
Just a thought, but this is kinda risky and best done with two people. Turn on the key. Pull the coil wire and give it a gap to jump to the engine (you probably don't want to hold it there, so use tape or something.) Briefly, like milliseconds, ground coil negative and then unground it. If there is a spark at the coil secondary wire, the coil works. What you are doing is acting like the computer or a set of points. Grounding the coil briefly charges it. Removing that ground again sends that charge to the coil secondary to make the spark. Remember that this will be a few amps of current, so you will also get a spark wherever you are grounding the coil negative to. Use thick wire and be safe.
Update on the progress, or lack thereof.
Borrowed some known good parts from some local guys on the forum who were kind enough to lend them to me. Results are:
- Plugged in known good AFM; no start, no spark
- Plugged in known good coil; no start, no spark
- Spliced in known good sensor that watches the front wheel on a pully (is this the crank sensor?); no start, no spark
Any other suggestions? I've just about had it with this car, I've already got a FS thread for a non-working. I'd love to get it working and keep it since I've got around $3k in parts and custom exhaust into it. And its a ton of fun to drive, when it starts. But I, like my middle name, am at my wit's end.
EDIT/UPDATE I just went out and used the multi-meter on all the grounds to ensure they were grounded: the one on the engine block, passenger side checked out (tone); grounding strap on the firewall and valve cover checked out (tone); negative terminal ground strap at the ground, not terminal checked out (tone).
While out there I put the key in the "ON" position and could hear a high pitched whine/beep coming from the engine compartment. I traced it to the Main Relay, so pulled that and put in the spare and it did the same thing. Assuming that's normal, but figured I'd mention it. They both got warm to the touch in a short amount of time with the key on.
Borrowed some known good parts from some local guys on the forum who were kind enough to lend them to me. Results are:
- Plugged in known good AFM; no start, no spark
- Plugged in known good coil; no start, no spark
- Spliced in known good sensor that watches the front wheel on a pully (is this the crank sensor?); no start, no spark
Any other suggestions? I've just about had it with this car, I've already got a FS thread for a non-working. I'd love to get it working and keep it since I've got around $3k in parts and custom exhaust into it. And its a ton of fun to drive, when it starts. But I, like my middle name, am at my wit's end.
EDIT/UPDATE I just went out and used the multi-meter on all the grounds to ensure they were grounded: the one on the engine block, passenger side checked out (tone); grounding strap on the firewall and valve cover checked out (tone); negative terminal ground strap at the ground, not terminal checked out (tone).
While out there I put the key in the "ON" position and could hear a high pitched whine/beep coming from the engine compartment. I traced it to the Main Relay, so pulled that and put in the spare and it did the same thing. Assuming that's normal, but figured I'd mention it. They both got warm to the touch in a short amount of time with the key on.
Ok, so a couple of things. The sensor on the front of the motor is just for the diagnostic plug, not for the ECU. When you put the key in the on position can you feel the ICV buzzing? It sounds to me more and more that either you don't have the correct powers and grounds to the ECU or the ECU is dead, but you said you have tried a spare ECU.
We might be onto something. So the high pitched buzzing/whine I heard was also and maybe actually coming from the ICV. It IS NOT vibrating when the key is ON. When I unplug it, the buzzing noise goes away. So I searched in the Bentley and on 7-30 & 31, it says I should be getting 5V at Pins 1 @ 2 and at Pins 2 &3. Here's what I get with both ECU's:
- Pin 2 & ground EAT: 3.20V
- Pin 1 & 2 EAT: 3.32V
- Pin 2 & 3 EAT: 0.00V
- Pin 2 & ground STOCK: 3.4V
- Pin 1&2 STOCK: 3.39V
- Pin 2&3 STOCK: 0.00V
I also ran through the tests on 7-33 & 34. For the specific test on the Idle Air Stabilizer Valve, it says to jumper 34 and 33 and there should be 40ohms of resistance. I did that and I get 42.1ohms, so that checks out.
I pulled open the stock ECU last night and looked it over. It looks clean/good from what I can tell. I'll re-do it again tonight and will take pictures this time. I'll also take apart the one with the EAT chip in it and post pictures of that as well. Based on what you see above, is it sounding more like I have 2 bad ECU's?
If you'd like, I'll post up the rest of the troubleshooting from the Bentley. The only items of note where I couldn't get a "pass" were on the fuel injector tests ~ when I grounded terminals 14 (for injectors 1-3) and 15 (for injectors 4-6), I never heard them "click". I'm all alone doing the tests, so I don't know if that is an accurate test of the system or not. I hear them click when I turn the car on and there is 13V at the harness for the fuel injectors. I also failed on the Air Conditioning test (29 & ground should have 12V), but while the compressor is still there all the lines are missing, so I'm assuming that the PO did something to disable the AC.
EDIT/UPDATE: Instead of going running, I decided to open up both ECU's and went through the steps on this site: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2432914/1986-bmw-5-series
Mine look fine in comparison to what the pics on that site show, so I put the EAT ECU back together and plugged it back in and there's less of a whine from the ICV (although the voltage is still as reported above) and the Heater Control Valve (which is new from last spring) is clicking. I can put my hand on it and feel it click on/off/on/off.
EDIT/UPDATE #2: SPARK!!! So all I've done in the last few weeks is read/test/read/test/read/test. I did a search on ICV hum no spark and came up with this: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=91 ... =icv+spark In there, it says to jumper pins 30 and 86 on the main relay. Before I did that, I did a test per the Bentley: Terminal 86 key off, 12.93V; Terminal 30 key off, 0.00V; Terminal 30 key on, 1.82V. So there's clearly something off with that. I jumped 86 & 30, key on and tested starting by jumping from the diagnostic port and I had significant spark! That's the first life I've seen from the car in WEEKS!
EDIT/UPDATE #3: I did the OBC relay fix:
- Pulled off the kick panel
- Pulled out the black box under the door chime and cruise control
- Removed the 4-wire connector and used a prong to jump the green and green/red wires.
- Plugged the 4-wire connector back in, key ON and ICV humming better than I've heard it before. 12V at 86 AND 30 and confirmed spark. I'd have the car running if not for breaking the plug wire that connects the coil to the distributor cap. Its always got to be something.
Thank you all for your patience and help in walking me through this. The car's been out of commission for weeks! I can't wait to get the new plug wire and get it out on the open road! Again, thank you so much for the guidance. It is much appreciated!
- Pin 2 & ground EAT: 3.20V
- Pin 1 & 2 EAT: 3.32V
- Pin 2 & 3 EAT: 0.00V
- Pin 2 & ground STOCK: 3.4V
- Pin 1&2 STOCK: 3.39V
- Pin 2&3 STOCK: 0.00V
I also ran through the tests on 7-33 & 34. For the specific test on the Idle Air Stabilizer Valve, it says to jumper 34 and 33 and there should be 40ohms of resistance. I did that and I get 42.1ohms, so that checks out.
I pulled open the stock ECU last night and looked it over. It looks clean/good from what I can tell. I'll re-do it again tonight and will take pictures this time. I'll also take apart the one with the EAT chip in it and post pictures of that as well. Based on what you see above, is it sounding more like I have 2 bad ECU's?
If you'd like, I'll post up the rest of the troubleshooting from the Bentley. The only items of note where I couldn't get a "pass" were on the fuel injector tests ~ when I grounded terminals 14 (for injectors 1-3) and 15 (for injectors 4-6), I never heard them "click". I'm all alone doing the tests, so I don't know if that is an accurate test of the system or not. I hear them click when I turn the car on and there is 13V at the harness for the fuel injectors. I also failed on the Air Conditioning test (29 & ground should have 12V), but while the compressor is still there all the lines are missing, so I'm assuming that the PO did something to disable the AC.
EDIT/UPDATE: Instead of going running, I decided to open up both ECU's and went through the steps on this site: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2432914/1986-bmw-5-series
Mine look fine in comparison to what the pics on that site show, so I put the EAT ECU back together and plugged it back in and there's less of a whine from the ICV (although the voltage is still as reported above) and the Heater Control Valve (which is new from last spring) is clicking. I can put my hand on it and feel it click on/off/on/off.
EDIT/UPDATE #2: SPARK!!! So all I've done in the last few weeks is read/test/read/test/read/test. I did a search on ICV hum no spark and came up with this: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=91 ... =icv+spark In there, it says to jumper pins 30 and 86 on the main relay. Before I did that, I did a test per the Bentley: Terminal 86 key off, 12.93V; Terminal 30 key off, 0.00V; Terminal 30 key on, 1.82V. So there's clearly something off with that. I jumped 86 & 30, key on and tested starting by jumping from the diagnostic port and I had significant spark! That's the first life I've seen from the car in WEEKS!
EDIT/UPDATE #3: I did the OBC relay fix:
- Pulled off the kick panel
- Pulled out the black box under the door chime and cruise control
- Removed the 4-wire connector and used a prong to jump the green and green/red wires.
- Plugged the 4-wire connector back in, key ON and ICV humming better than I've heard it before. 12V at 86 AND 30 and confirmed spark. I'd have the car running if not for breaking the plug wire that connects the coil to the distributor cap. Its always got to be something.
Thank you all for your patience and help in walking me through this. The car's been out of commission for weeks! I can't wait to get the new plug wire and get it out on the open road! Again, thank you so much for the guidance. It is much appreciated!