Operation Hartge "2"

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Aug 19, 2009 5:22 PM

mogie wrote:
Leather is the way, plastic sux. Very Happy
What do you think is under the leather

...and what do you think is under the paint?

Doesn't mean I want to see it. Soft, juicy, triple-stitched cow hide is infinitely more desirable than plastic, especially after plastic has been baked by the sun for 20 years and becomes brittle. Leather has its drawbacks but if treated properly will last at least another 20 years.

mogie · Post by **mogie** » Aug 19, 2009 7:46 PM

...and what do you think is under the paint? Laugh

Not plastic

1st 5er · Post by **1st 5er** » Aug 19, 2009 7:51 PM

mogie wrote:
Leather is the way, plastic sux. Very Happy
What do you think is under the leather holding it in place

Fixed...

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Aug 19, 2009 8:28 PM

mogie wrote:
...and what do you think is under the paint? Laugh
Not plastic

So that's not plastic under your airdam?

Are you trying to say we've wasted our money wrapping and rewrapping various items in leather? In my book, leather wrapped PLASTIC (happy?) trumps cracked and crunchy plastic any day. 8)

mogie · Post by **mogie** » Aug 19, 2009 11:00 PM

Are you trying to say we've wasted our money wrapping and rewrapping various items in leather? In my book, leather wrapped PLASTIC (happy?) trumps cracked and crunchy plastic any day. Cool

No but "in my book" whether its leather or a new/used crack free dash they are on the same level. Both exemplify factory options, to some degree. So either is "hardcore." Some prefer leather, others don't...

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Aug 19, 2009 11:24 PM

No but "in my book" whether its leather or a new/used crack free dash they are on the same level. Both exemplify factory options, to some degree. So either is "hardcore." Some prefer leather, others don't...

Let me get this straight. To you, a freshly wrapped leather dash is on the same level as an old crack free non-leather covered dash? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm willing to bet that you are in the minority.

Hardcore is a bit more ambiguous, but in this instance I believe a leather dash and other bits can be considered hardcore since its both expensive and something you don't see very often in these cars. An uncracked plastic dash wouldn't be considered hardcore because they are much more common and were offered OE on the vast majority of car that came off the line.

I'm not sure why this has become a topic of discussion since throughout this thread there has been nothing but praise for the efforts put forth to get this car to the point where it is in such a short time. Now it seems certain people are trying to minimize the efforts to make the car truly stand out.

wkohler · Post by **wkohler** » Aug 20, 2009 12:49 AM

No, I'm not minimizing anything. I just didn't like your statement that you couldn't be hardcore unless you covered everything in cow. The guy who goes nearly to the level of a Corvette restorer to return a car to stock condition is just as - if not more so - hardcore than you cow folks.

I never said you or Ron weren't hardcore. After seeing both of these cars, I'm seriously thinking of just getting rid of both of mine and going back to Volvos or just public transportation since I'm incapable of being happy with my own cars.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Aug 20, 2009 1:23 AM

wkohler wrote:No, I'm not minimizing anything. I just didn't like your statement that you couldn't be hardcore unless you covered everything in cow. The guy who goes nearly to the level of a Corvette restorer to return a car to stock condition is just as - if not more so - hardcore than you cow folks.

I never said you or Ron weren't hardcore. After seeing both of these cars, I'm seriously thinking of just getting rid of both of mine and going back to Volvos or just public transportation since I'm incapable of being happy with my own cars.

I should have made a better distinction between cows and hardcore. It may have been implied that a cow must explode inside your car in order to be competitive, but that isn't the case, it's more a matter of personal taste. It's a lot more time consuming and costly to yank your dash, find an uncracked one, find a good leather guy, put down hundreds of dollars for labor and materials and then reinstall it without trashing it. Add to that installing a leather gauge pod and its a nightmare. Cutting holes into the top of a freshly recovered dash is ballsy. When I used the term 'hardcore' this was part of what I'm referring to. I'm referring to attention to detail, making the car better than it was originally, long nights under your car and in the garage scrubbing and q-tipping dirt and grease from every crevice just in case the judges look there (and they did!). In concours events the judges couldn't care less whether you have plastic or leather as long as its clean and serviceable. Personally, I loathe replacing parts only to have them fail, and in the case of new dashes, crack, a few months after installation. Since that experience I decided that everything going onto my car would be either new, refinished/refurbished a/o unique.

Regarding your cars I think that if you pool all your parts and install the best on one or both of your cars, sold the rest and used the money to respray them you're cars would be right up there with the best on the board.

WilNJ · Post by **WilNJ** » Aug 20, 2009 4:49 PM

Are the Hartge fenders flared or is this a normal e28 arch and the picture just appears wider?

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Aug 20, 2009 5:09 PM

Are the Hartge fenders flared or is this a normal e28 arch and the picture just appears wider?

No, they are the same as a stock e28. You are just looking at my great camera work! I am happy to say that my cars don't come out like my photos!!!

WilNJ · Post by **WilNJ** » Aug 20, 2009 8:50 PM

Thanks Ron.

Phenomenal job by the way.

Do you build data on the Hartge M30? Is possible to build one? Is there a better value in getting streetable, well performing M30?

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Aug 24, 2009 11:04 AM

Do you build data on the Hartge M30? Is possible to build one? Is there a better value in getting streetable, well performing M30?

This is a factory H5S and it would be pretty hard to duplicate as it has a L block with a distributor and a 2.5/2.8 intake plenum, Hartge cam, and Hartge headers. Of course there are more modern ways to achieve the same results.

Post by **Nebraska_e28** » Aug 24, 2009 11:14 AM

RonP wrote: Of course there are more modern ways to achieve the same results.

Loving the nostalgia of the originality though!

WilNJ · Post by **WilNJ** » Aug 24, 2009 11:52 AM

RonP wrote:
Do you build data on the Hartge M30? Is possible to build one? Is there a better value in getting streetable, well performing M30?
This is a factory H5S and it would be pretty hard to duplicate as it has a L block with a distributor and a 2.5/2.8 intake plenum, Hartge cam, and Hartge headers. Of course there are more modern ways to achieve the same results.

I recall a somewhere that someone had listed suggestions for potential M30 builds for various intended uses with target HP outputs that could be expected. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

I have to get better at bookmarking these.

wkohler · Post by **wkohler** » Aug 24, 2009 7:18 PM

It's at the m535i.org site. Definitely a good resource to have in your bookmarks.

WilNJ · Post by **WilNJ** » Aug 24, 2009 8:46 PM

Thanks, sorry for hijacking the thread.

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Sep 07, 2009 10:57 AM

Thanks, sorry for hijacking the thread.

Now back to our regularly sceduled program.......

oldskool · Post by **oldskool** » Sep 26, 2009 6:32 PM

Bump for a rainy day re-read!

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Sep 26, 2009 6:36 PM

oldskool wrote:Bump for a rainy day re-read!

RAIN, it's 103 outside!

HartgeM5 · Post by **HartgeM5** » Oct 28, 2009 1:25 AM

I know this is late, Congrats Ron the car is fabulous. There are approximately 12 Hartge H5S that we imported as the "authorized importer of Hartge Motorsport" but anyone at that time could go to Germany and buy a car and bring it back. The think I still have all the VINs somewhere. Some are not surviving. The only H5SP sport ever imported was lost to neglect. I'm sure others have perished. Yours however is most likely (definitely) the nicest H5S anywhere. You did an amazing job. Considering the car went through 3 other owners after I sold it (before you got it) shows what a miracle worker you are. I do have a question, why did you remove the spoiler kit with the side skirts, rear skirt and rear wing? Was it too far gone?
Scott

gray635 · Post by **gray635** » Oct 28, 2009 9:39 PM

I heard some talk on the street today that RonP has sold the Hartge. Wish it had been to me

Any confirmation of this rumor???

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Oct 28, 2009 10:46 PM

Scott,

After owning a Hartge H5S back in 1984, I knew that all Hartge cars were very different. I wanted mine to look like it belonged in this century.

No sale yet, but let's just say I have an interested party. That all may change tomorrow, though.

3453cc · Post by **3453cc** » Oct 28, 2009 11:50 PM

Congratulations Ron on striving for and achieving automotive excellence with this fine vehicle. Your passion and abilities are manifested right before our very eyes (and the judges').

Mike 'Murfinator', congratulations on a job-well-done with your E28's very fine attention-to-detail; it is a style which I (mostly) will be striving for in the future.

Saludos!

Ed

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Oct 29, 2009 1:28 AM

Thanks for the honorable mention. For more details on both cars check out Bimmer magazine over the next few months. I believe Ron's Hartge will soon be featured and my 535 would have been shot today if I wasn't swamped at work. Tentatively looking at a January shoot. Can't wait to see more pics of the Hartge, and perhaps some decent shots of my 535...

INTREPID 1 · Post by **INTREPID 1** » Oct 31, 2009 3:01 AM

Ron,
Congrats on winning the well deserved "Peoples Choice" at the Vintage Meet over the weekend in the Valley. I parked on your left and it was nice to meet you and see the Hartge us close and personal. Hope you can sell the car. Then you can get back to putting your creative touches on the e3.

Regards,
Tom Weltzien

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Mar 06, 2010 1:24 PM

I thought since the car is now officially for sale, I would bump the build thread!

Post by **Nebraska_e28** » Mar 08, 2010 9:05 AM

RonP wrote:I thought since the car is now officially for sale, I would bump the build thread!

Any chance of you bringing this down for 5erFest?

joegreen · Post by **joegreen** » Mar 08, 2010 8:10 PM

awesome thread awesome car!

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Mar 08, 2010 8:34 PM

Any chance of you bringing this down for 5erFest? Wink

LOL!!! Is that within a 5 mile radius of my shop?

Corner Carver · Post by **Corner Carver** » Mar 08, 2010 8:44 PM

Ron, are you bringing it to the St Paddy's day meet? I would love to drool on it.

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

Operation Hartge "2"

Ron's Hartge H5S