WOT: Super Bowl Half Time Show !! >

[skip535i]

What is pleasing to most Americans, in pretty much any field, is an indication of just how bad most people's taste is. They like the Black Eyed Peas, drive Camrys, and eat out of cans. BLECH.

-tammer

Wow. I know you're opinionated, as most of us here are, but I think you may be crossing over into snob territory with sweeping generalizations like this.

Dude, it's Tammer. You'd just have to meet him to understand....beer is always good, too!

[Tammer in Philly]

What is pleasing to most Americans, in pretty much any field, is an indication of just how bad most people's taste is. They like the Black Eyed Peas, drive Camrys, and eat out of cans. BLECH.

-tammer

Wow. I know you're opinionated, as most of us here are, but I think you may be crossing over into snob territory with sweeping generalizations like this.

Maybe, but find me any music enthusiast who honestly prefers, say, top-40 rap to underground hip-hop in clubs, or pop boy bands to musicians who write and perform their own work. Find me any auto enthusiast who prefers bland cars marketed to everyman over more performance-oriented models with some racing pedigree. Find me any foodie who prefers Chef Boyardee to a fine home-cooked Italian meal. Find a wine enthusiast who prefers Ernest and Julio Gallo to Beaulieu Vineyards. Yet, Chef Boyardee and Toyota and Fergie and EJG sell hundreds of millions of dollars worth of product every year, dominating their respective markets. What that means to me is that most people just don't care, and do whatever they're told by TV/celebrities/whatever. It's telling, also, that a big marketing budget can overcome an inferior product--look at the success of Anheuser Busch or the growth of Absolut Vodka vs. its (similarly priced but superior) competitors during it's "Absolut _______" bottle-shaped image ad campaign in the '90s. That shows you can charge premium money for crap if you can give your crap a premium image, which means that most people won't know the difference.

Call me a snob if you want, but I'm a quality-over-quantity type of guy. And don't give me some tripe about how it's "all folks can afford," or anything of the sort. Very often there are superior choices for less money if you're willing to put in some effort and acquire some skill, like driving an E28 vs. a 2-y.o. Kia, or cooking your own excellent food with fresh, healthy ingredients for much less money than even shitty restaurant food like T.G.I. Friday's.

-tammer (beer snob, wine snob, music snob, car snob, movie snob, food snob ...)

[skip535i]

Told ya, Lee

[rlomba8204]

. . . . Find a wine enthusiast who prefers Ernest and Julio Gallo to Beaulieu Vineyards.

You want to be a snob and yet you hold out BV as a benchmark for quality? Granted, it's hardly swill but it's not great either. But then again if you drink Gallo anything seems good probably. Good grief.

[Tammer in Philly]

. . . . Find a wine enthusiast who prefers Ernest and Julio Gallo to Beaulieu Vineyards.

You want to be a snob and yet you hold out BV as a benchmark for quality? Granted, it's hardly swill but it's not great either. But then again if you drink Gallo anything seems good probably. Good grief. ;-)

I was going for relative levels of quality here, and trying to stick to things that are widely available and fairly inexpensive. BV meets those criteria, and if you select wisely, they have some good wines. Almost every producer makes at least a couple solid wines and some total duds. Learn a little, read, taste, try, and you'll find that there are very good wines for very reasonable money. We can't all afford Ferraris, but my whole point was that just because you can't afford a Ferrari doesn't mean you have to settle for a Chevy (née Daewoo) Aveo.

And yes, I saw the winky face. :-)

-tammer

[Karl Grau]

. . . . Find a wine enthusiast who prefers Ernest and Julio Gallo to Beaulieu Vineyards.

You want to be a snob and yet you hold out BV as a benchmark for quality?

Yeah, I had to think for a second to figure out which one was supposed to be the "inferior" example.

Seriously though, I touched on this in the thread about tequila. There are plenty of unknown vineyards without huge advertising budgets that make excellent wines that won't break the bank. Half the fun is finding them.

[Lee in MD]

Call me a snob if you want, but I'm a quality-over-quantity type of guy. And don't give me some tripe about how it's "all folks can afford," or anything of the sort. Very often there are superior choices for less money if you're willing to put in some effort and acquire some skill, like driving an E28 vs. a 2-y.o. Kia, or cooking your own excellent food with fresh, healthy ingredients for much less money than even shitty restaurant food like T.G.I. Friday's.

-tammer (beer snob, wine snob, music snob, car snob, movie snob, food snob ...)

Last time I was at the grocery store, as in last week, the price of fresh fruits, vegetables and the better cuts of meat were all substantially higher than the more pedestrian fare for "Americans with no taste". I don't care if you do go to the trouble to cook it yourself, the cost of the ingredients still makes for a more expensive meal.

As far as E28s go, if you think driving an E28 somehow makes you more "skilled" than someone who drives a KIA then you've definitely strayed into delusional fanboy too-cool-for-school territory in my book. It may matter at the track where you pursue your hobby, but in the real world the only real measure of driving "skill" is how many at fault accidents you've had, period.

At various times in my life, I've flirted with and spent a lot of money on the audiophile thing, the fine dining scene, the art house movie scene, the art gallery scene, the fine arts scene etc., and they're all fine for what they are, which is hobbies. Some I still enjoy and others I've left behind for more pedestrian fare. However, over the years, I've come to believe very firmly that if you're especially vocal about your hobbies and preferences and what you eat, especially when slagging others for not being sufficiently aficionado, you're not really proving superiority but rather just immaturity.

This is why nowadays, I'd rather hang out with a bunch of "no taste" Budweiser swilling, NASCAR watching, Black Eyed Peas listening fools than a bunch of insufferable aficionado types who smugly blather on and on about whatever whilst ripping everyone else.

Now I imagine this may get you a bit riled up, so I'll just advise you to keep this in the back of your mind because I'm sure I'll hypocritically spout off about something around here sometime in the near future. Then you can get me back by making me eat my own words!

[DURPILOT]

There was a superbowl ? Well, no sh*t.
Was it the Lakers or the Celtics who won?

[benfidar]

HD was not doin' Fergie any favors. All the women at the party I was attending were bored with the football and excited by the half-time show. They were impressed by the neon suits. Whatever it takes...

And, although I usually am drawn to the better end of the food, beer, wine spectrum, we were drinking PBR in a can. Supporting the hometown favorite was the least a Wisconsinite can do. (There was Lake Louie to be had as well, yum).

[the Tanned One]

Lee,Tammer, Charles How can you say anything about good wines When non of you had MadDog 20/20 or Cold Duck on your lists !!??!!

[Karl Grau]

This is why nowadays, I'd rather hang out with a bunch of "no taste" Budweiser swilling, NASCAR watching, Black Eyed Peas listening fools

I probably won't be looking you up next time I'm in Maryland, I'll be over at Ray's house.

[Lee in MD]

This is why nowadays, I'd rather hang out with a bunch of "no taste" Budweiser swilling, NASCAR watching, Black Eyed Peas listening fools

I probably won't be looking you up next time I'm in Maryland, I'll be over at Ray's house.

Hey I said I'd rather hang out with them, not BE them! If you and Ray want to come by some day and sip some fine single malts whilst discussing the travails of being an old BMW fanatic, I'd love to have you stop by. However, if things were to devolve into sitting around slagging "no taste commoners" then I would probably get pretty bitchy real quick.

However, that wouldn't likely happen because most of us in real life are only half the asshole we appear to be online.

[ldsbeaker]

However, that wouldn't likely happen because most of us in real life are only half the asshole we appear to be online.

Fucking A-men.

[Lee in MD]

However, that wouldn't likely happen because most of us in real life are only half the asshole we appear to be online.

Fucking A-men.

Whew! Thanks brotha! Shortly after posting that, I thought "oh no, what if Adam chimes in and let's everyone know that I'm 100% the asshole I appear to be online?"

[booker]

However, that wouldn't likely happen because most of us in real life are only half the asshole we appear to be online.

Fucking A-men.

Its funny like that.

Re: the halftime show:

That was painful. And I only caught 15 seconds of it! I guess that makes me a superbowl halftime snob. After all, I made a rash decision that I disliked something after not giving it the proper time needed to see the true merit of the whole ordeal.

Screw it. The black eyed peas suck.

[a]

I'm tellin ya, you let jug burgundy breathe for a day or 2 and it starts developing some character. As for the SB, as soon as King of the Hill came on the Cartoon network, I bailed

[Karl Grau]

I'm not the oenophile you are so maybe you can help me out. If I poke some holes in the carton, is that the same as breathing it?

[rlomba8204]

This is why nowadays, I'd rather hang out with a bunch of "no taste" Budweiser swilling, NASCAR watching, Black Eyed Peas listening fools

I probably won't be looking you up next time I'm in Maryland, I'll be over at Ray's house.

Hey I said I'd rather hang out with them, not BE them! If you and Ray want to come by some day and sip some fine single malts whilst discussing the travails of being an old BMW fanatic, I'd love to have you stop by. However, if things were to devolve into sitting around slagging "no taste commoners" then I would probably get pretty bitchy real quick.

However, that wouldn't likely happen because most of us in real life are only half the asshole we appear to be online.

I am actually more of an asshole in real life, albeit an asshole who has good taste in food and wine.

EDIT: As far as the whole Fergie / Black Eye (Eyed? Who gives a shi!t?) Peas thing, they suck. Period, end of story. However, Fergie is popular because she is attractive, although now she's starting to look a bit, how can I say this and be polite, "well worn."

[Karl Grau]

I am actually more of an asshole in real life

No worries, so am I.

albeit an asshole who has good taste in food and wine.

That's why I'm crashing at your house instead of Lee's. No need to do up the guest room, the couch in the den will be fine.

[rlomba8204]

I am actually more of an asshole in real life

No worries, so am I.

albeit an asshole who has good taste in food and wine.

That's why I'm crashing at your house instead of Lee's. No need to do up the guest room, the couch in the den will be fine.

HA. Consider yourself as having a DC area crash pad then.

[BDK]

I will admit that the sound for the half time show sucked...
I believe a lot of it had to do with the sound man though,
he was still adjusting mic's into the first song,
some were bright some were flat,
like they had not done a sound check or something...
the mics were much louder than the music,
the music basically was lost behind the vocals....

A lot of you guys are bit ole' fartish with your music tastes though...


How many dead heads does it take to change a light bulb?

None, they just let it burn out
then they follow it around for 40 yrs....

[BDK]

Yeah, Fergie can't sing at all...

Fergie with Heart--Barracuda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWAqVQQ0 ... re=related

Fergie with U2, Bono and Jagger...Gimme Shelter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzgJ6Mkk ... re=related

[Blue Shadow]

There was a superbowl ? Well, no sh*t.
Was it the Lakers or the Celtics who won?

The Cs took the game.

[davintosh]

I will admit that the sound for the half time show sucked...
I believe a lot of it had to do with the sound man though,
he was still adjusting mic's into the first song,
some were bright some were flat,
like they had not done a sound check or something...
the mics were much louder than the music,
the music basically was lost behind the vocals....

^^^^ This. I was actually on my way out of the room when they started singing and couldn't believe how crappy it sounded. It was like a train wreck and I just couldn't pull myself away. Kept thinking it would get better, but it didn't. I think there's a sound guy looking for work today.

[Lee in MD]

Yeah, Fergie can't sing at all...

Fergie with Heart--Barracuda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWAqVQQ0 ... re=related

Fergie with U2, Bono and Jagger...Gimme Shelter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzgJ6Mkk ... re=related

Exactly. She's got the pipes to hang with Ann Wilson for chrissakes, but everyone is slagging her like she can't sing. I still think it's unfortunate that she wastes her time with the Black Eyed Peas, but I'm just a middle aged white guy so what do I know about modern pop. I just hope that she can continue to have a career after the Peas inevitably crap out.

I'll bet Fergie wouldn't have flubbed the national anthem like Xtina!

[Lee in MD]

^^^^ This. I was actually on my way out of the room when they started singing and couldn't believe how crappy it sounded. It was like a train wreck and I just couldn't pull myself away. Kept thinking it would get better, but it didn't. I think there's a sound guy looking for work today.

Indeed. During their set I was thinking that I've heard better sound board work at high school talent show. Did they not have time to do a pre-game level check on the mics?

[Tammer in Philly]

Last time I was at the grocery store, as in last week, the price of fresh fruits, vegetables and the better cuts of meat were all substantially higher than the more pedestrian fare for "Americans with no taste". I don't care if you do go to the trouble to cook it yourself, the cost of the ingredients still makes for a more expensive meal.

I eat vegetarian 95% of the time, so meat prices don't matter too much. The rare occasions when I want it, I pony up for the good stuff. Quality, not quantity. That's a proven healthier approach, also, as anything more than a few servings of meat per week (where a serving is a few oz. of lean meat, not a 16-oz Porterhouse) is detrimental to many aspects of one's health. The last big pot of chili I made was damn tasty, made about 10 meals (I froze half of it and ate it a couple weeks later when I didn't have time to cook), and cost $16 total, including all the spices and the rice I put it on. It's true that in some areas, it's hard to come by healthy food at a reasonable price point, which is one reason (lack of education being a HUGE other reason) that many of the people on WIC and the like have high obesity/diabetes/etc. rates. There's a reason all that packaged shit is cheap, though--it's all paid for through subsidies to agriculture.

As far as E28s go, if you think driving an E28 somehow makes you more "skilled" than someone who drives a KIA then you've definitely strayed into delusional fanboy too-cool-for-school territory in my book. It may matter at the track where you pursue your hobby, but in the real world the only real measure of driving "skill" is how many at fault accidents you've had, period.

Don't be a dumbass. I meant skill as in keeping an older car running. I'd rather drive a 200k-mile, 20-y.o. BMW than a brand-new Civic that would cost me 10x more to acquire and 5x more year-over-year in depreciation vs. maintenance on the older car. If you desire newer/safer/more features, it's still far, far cheaper to buy a 4-y.o. off-warranty car of higher quality vs. a newer downmarket car at an equal price point. That's just simple math. The tradeoff is that you either pony up for dealer or other professional repair, or you learn to do some or all of it yourself. THOSE skills, the practical, hands-on skills you need to make a machine keep working well, are what most people in this finance-it-and-trade-it-when-it's-got-50k-miles country lack, and are too lazy to learn. Driving skills are another argument, but not one in which I'll defend the average Joe's approach, either. But since you brought it up, my only at-fault accident occurred 6 days after I got my license because I was a stupid kid just like everyone else--but I learned from it.

At various times in my life, I've flirted with and spent a lot of money on the audiophile thing, the fine dining scene, the art house movie scene, the art gallery scene, the fine arts scene etc., and they're all fine for what they are, which is hobbies. Some I still enjoy and others I've left behind for more pedestrian fare. However, over the years, I've come to believe very firmly that if you're especially vocal about your hobbies and preferences and what you eat, especially when slagging others for not being sufficiently aficionado, you're not really proving superiority but rather just immaturity.

By this, you're showing that you missed my entire point. It's not about spending money or hamming it up. It's about finding the best stuff you can find in any given endeavor that meets your needs for price/convenience/whatever. However, most people put zero effort into anything. THAT is my point. Whatever is on the radio is what they listen to. Whatever's cheapest at the store or has the flashiest commercials is what they buy. Whatever Consumer Reports tells them to drive, they drive. That's why people can make millions of dollars by dangling a scantily-clad 17-y.o. Britney Spears in front of everyone's face. That she has no talent just doesn't matter to most people.

This is why nowadays, I'd rather hang out with a bunch of "no taste" Budweiser swilling, NASCAR watching, Black Eyed Peas listening fools than a bunch of insufferable aficionado types who smugly blather on and on about whatever whilst ripping everyone else.

Now I imagine this may get you a bit riled up, so I'll just advise you to keep this in the back of your mind because I'm sure I'll hypocritically spout off about something around here sometime in the near future. Then you can get me back by making me eat my own words! :laugh:

I'm not riled up, I'm just making sure my point is understood. I think there's a lot of value in learning something about ... everything. I'm not expert at much, but I try to at least have some working knowledge of everything I do, especially the day-to-day stuff that impacts my quality of life: what I eat, basic finance, how shit works, politics, etc. One thing that *does* get me riled up is how most people are not only ignorant of the basic workings of most things, from simple scientific principles to how to use a map effectively to how the beef ends up in a McDonald's hamburger, but they seem to actively avoid learning. That complacency kills me, and I think the lack of critical thinking and the "cheaper is better than more valuable" mindset (a.k.a. the "Wal-Mart" mindset) is really damaging to our society.

As a junior in college, I figured out I'd rather drink 2 Guinness than 10 Natural Lites. I guess that was the beginning of the end.

-tammer

[rlomba8204]

Tammer,

Even though you think BV is a good wine, you are still welcome at our house anytime. I won't hold it against you, if you don't hold it against me that I'm an asshole. Cheers.

[rlomba8204]

. . . THOSE skills, the practical, hands-on skills you need to make a machine keep working well, are what most people in this finance-it-and-trade-it-when-it's-got-50k-miles country lack, and are too lazy to learn. . . .

Tammer,
One serious point: don't be too judgmental. Yes, there are people who are a bit clueless when it comes to cars. But at the same time be aware that you too will be at a point in your life where you simply do not have time to spend four hours under the hood on a Saturday afternoon. Seriously. My average workweek day begins at 5am and ends at 11pm. Work obviously takes up a big portion of that, but mix in exercise, walking the dog, laundry, "family time" (putting our son to bed, bath time, play time, etc.), household chores etc. Weekends? Well let's just say Saturday is usually fully booked with household chores -- dry cleaning, groceries, Home Depot (once you own a house Home Depot is almost unavoidable), etc. Sunday we usually have some down time but with a wife and family do you think it would be fair for me, for example, to announce that I am going to spend that day -- that few hours of free time -- out in the garage playing with the cars?

The point is that the average person who has a career, kids, a house etc. is not being lazy or an idiot making choices about what he or she wants to spend time on. It is a question of realizing that you don't have time for everything, and you need to prioritize. And this is where, for many people, owning an older car no longer becomes cost effective, both from a time and money perspective. I've been on both sides of this issue at different times in my life and so I think I have a better appreciation of it. But I think to be fair what Lee is picking up on is that you shouldn't walk around making the judgment, in this case for example, that the vast majority, or substantial majority of people who trade a car let's say every five years are complete idiots and / or lazy. They are making a decision about what works for them based on their own priorities and realities. Not that I'm of that mindset -- I still like to keep cars for 10 years. But I am not king of the world, and not everything has to be done the way you or I would do it. That's actually a form of true "tolerance" and again I think that's what Lee is picking up on.

Not that this means you'll catch me drinking Bud, but that's a choice people can make.

[Tammer in Philly]

Tammer,
One serious point: don't be too judgmental. Yes, there are people who are a bit clueless when it comes to cars. But at the same time be aware that you too will be at a point in your life where you simply do not have time to spend four hours under the hood on a Saturday afternoon. Seriously. My average workweek day begins at 5am and ends at 11pm. Work obviously takes up a big portion of that, but mix in exercise, walking the dog, laundry, "family time" (putting our son to bed, bath time, play time, etc.), household chores etc. Weekends? Well let's just say Saturday is usually fully booked with household chores -- dry cleaning, groceries, Home Depot (once you own a house Home Depot is almost unavoidable), etc. Sunday we usually have some down time but with a wife and family do you think it would be fair for me, for example, to announce that I am going to spend that day -- that few hours of free time -- out in the garage playing with the cars?

The point is that the average person who has a career, kids, a house etc. is not being lazy or an idiot making choices about what he or she wants to spend time on. It is a question of realizing that you don't have time for everything, and you need to prioritize. And this is where, for many people, owning an older car no longer becomes cost effective, both from a time and money perspective. I've been on both sides of this issue at different times in my life and so I think I have a better appreciation of it. But I think to be fair what Lee is picking up on is that you shouldn't walk around making the judgment, in this case for example, that the vast majority, or substantial majority of people who trade a car let's say every five years are complete idiots and / or lazy. They are making a decision about what works for them based on their own priorities and realities. Not that I'm of that mindset -- I still like to keep cars for 10 years. But I am not king of the world, and not everything has to be done the way you or I would do it. That's actually a form of true "tolerance" and again I think that's what Lee is picking up on.

Not that this means you'll catch me drinking Bud, but that's a choice people can make.

There's a very big difference between deciding the car payment is worthwhile for the convenience, warranty, loaner cars, ease, creature comforts, etc. given your schedule, and not having the option because you lack the ability to manage any other way.

I'll go the opposite way from your Budweiser comment. Well, no I won't; you won't catch me drinking a Bud. But it's not that I don't sometimes enjoy crappy Chinese takeout or a Philly Special. It's just important to appreciate other things as well.

When I come over, I'll bring something nicer than BV (and I maintain that some of their reserve cabernets are very solid for the $15 they cost).

-tammer