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Posted: Oct 19, 2010 10:04 AM
by Mark in Toronto
Adam W in MN wrote:[You're getting some very candid feedback which is what you would have come to expect from this forum. But you are also getting the collective wisdom of many professionals with excellent careers and life experience. What you've told us doesn't add up. Also, if you were brought in as a candidate because you ......... er........ exaggerated a bit on your qualifications, I would be extremely careful.
The responses in this thread are not meant to put you down, we are trying to make you take a step back and look at this from an outsider's point of view. You're excited and probably misty eyed that this opportunity could leapfrog your career 10+ years over others with more experience, education, and big marketing/product launch wins. Do your homework on this role and understand if this is really what the company claims it will be, or if it's a scam, etc.
And who said lightening never strikes twice...Blake, Mr. Wilson and others have provided you with some very good advice. Good luck and remember, there's an upstart new/old stock parts company here in Toronto that has excellent growth potential and maybe in search of a good marketing manager. HA!
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 10:08 AM
by Cooperman
To add to the excellent advice given here by everyone- devil's advocates have always provided the most valuable and constructive input to me when it has come to the business world.
Good luck, Blake, but remember that if you can't take the good-natured ribbing and honest input given here, then it will probably be even harder when things don't go well in the war room sessions a job like the one you describe will surely entail.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 12:24 PM
by BMWgiant
WilNJ wrote:Good luck but I wouldn't call it secretive.
This took less than 1 minute only with the details you provided here.
http://www.averamotors.com/
I gave enough details that I expected SOMEBODY to find the company... And with that teaser website, you are going to say that they aren't very secretive? They are about to launch a new website in a couple of weeks that will reveal even more details about the company, but so far, they aren't sharing much about the vehicle. If you search some articles written about the company, you can see the potential that Avera Motors has. Whether I get this job or not, I'm going to follow this company. Just for the sake of the state of Florida's unemployment, and America's damaged automotive production sector, I hope that this company succeeds.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 12:29 PM
by BMWgiant
Mark in Toronto wrote:Adam W in MN wrote:[You're getting some very candid feedback which is what you would have come to expect from this forum. But you are also getting the collective wisdom of many professionals with excellent careers and life experience. What you've told us doesn't add up. Also, if you were brought in as a candidate because you ......... er........ exaggerated a bit on your qualifications, I would be extremely careful.
The responses in this thread are not meant to put you down, we are trying to make you take a step back and look at this from an outsider's point of view. You're excited and probably misty eyed that this opportunity could leapfrog your career 10+ years over others with more experience, education, and big marketing/product launch wins. Do your homework on this role and understand if this is really what the company claims it will be, or if it's a scam, etc.
And who said lightening never strikes twice...Blake, Mr. Wilson and others have provided you with some very good advice. Good luck and remember, there's an upstart new/old stock parts company here in Toronto that has excellent growth potential and maybe in search of a good marketing manager. HA!
If I don't get this position with Avera Motors, I've already planned on working as the Director of Marketing for this other company for at least the next 6-8 months, while I wait for a skilled workers visa for Canada to come in. Then, I plan on moving to a the great white north... I figure with my experience along with the titles I've held, it shouldn't be too hard to find a job in Toronto. Not to mention I've already found places to live for cheaper than most places I can find here...
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 12:37 PM
by Shawn D.
BMWgiant wrote:If I don't get this position with Avera Motors, I've already planned on working as the Director of Marketing for this other company for at least the next 6-8 months, while I wait for a skilled workers visa for Canada to come in. Then, I plan on moving to a the great white north... I figure with my experience along with the titles I've held, it shouldn't be too hard to find a job in Toronto. Not to mention I've already found places to live for cheaper than most places I can find here...
AFAIK, you can't just get a visa, move to Canada, then look for work -- you must have accepted a job before you can move there.
I'm not in your line of business, but I really don't see how you're going to get a "director" job with your level of experience, neverminding the statement "with my experience along with the titles I've held." Seriously, what experience and what titles?
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 12:46 PM
by BMWgiant
Shawn D. wrote:BMWgiant wrote:If I don't get this position with Avera Motors, I've already planned on working as the Director of Marketing for this other company for at least the next 6-8 months, while I wait for a skilled workers visa for Canada to come in. Then, I plan on moving to a the great white north... I figure with my experience along with the titles I've held, it shouldn't be too hard to find a job in Toronto. Not to mention I've already found places to live for cheaper than most places I can find here...
AFAIK, you can't just get a visa, move to Canada, then look for work -- you must have accepted a job before you can move there.
I'm not in your line of business, but I really don't see how you're going to get a "director" job with your level of experience, neverminding the statement "with my experience along with the titles I've held." Seriously, what experience and what titles?
I already have the director job. It's a small business, as I said earlier, and I came to them with my expertise telling them how I can help them. It is experience I am offering, and experience I am gaining by working. I haven't even officially started the job yet and I've already established a charity event, have a celebrity event in the works, partnered them with another marketing company, and have expanded their list of contacts to new markets. I've only been back from Canada for less then a week, and I've already proven my abilities to them.
I have experience in advertising sales, account management, campaign development, logo design, print media, social media, development of product concepts, and a bit more on top of all that. I am a University of Florida graduate with a B.S. in Advertising, who has experience working with big name corporations like Apple, Costa Del Mar, Nissan, Dominion Enterprises and Zimmerman Advertising Agency. I may be early in the game, but I've already done a lot for somebody at this stage in my career.
And as far as the skilled workers visa is concerned, it really is that easy. There is a point system that they have established that rates you based on age, college degree, ability to speak english, ability to adapt to Canada, and more. I've already done the math and I do qualify for this visa. Once you have this visa, you have the ability to live in, and apply for work anywhere in Canada for a year until you renew the Visa. I've done the research, which is why Canada became so feasible to me.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 1:27 PM
by WH
BMWgiant wrote:
I can't get a simple "good luck"? Like I said, it's a dream job. I said the interview went great. I'm not saying that I've been hired. I am aiming high, and I am simply hoping I made it to the second round. I would be extremely lucky if I get a position like this in this stage in my career...
As far as the company is concerned, I'm not worried about it's legitimacy. I've done the research. I've read articles on articles, press releases and more. The company itself has tried to keep everything under wraps, so it's not like their trying to feed me a load of crap to try to take advantage of me. It is a young company, looking for young innovative minds. My job description in my original post might be a tad exaggerated. They currently have an out of house marketing firm taking care of their advertising, but they need somebody in house to proof everything. To help generate new ideas, and start an in-house team.
If it wasn't for the fact that the CEO is only 27, a doctorate in engineering, already has a partnership with NASA, millions of dollars backing the company and is projected to be one of the top employers in Florida, I wouldn't think I had a chance. BUT, the CEO is young himself, so I think that if I can prove my abilities, I may actually be able to find myself with at least a small chance at this position. It won't be easy, but most things in life aren't.
Again, it's a dream job that I am going for. I was just thinking of coming to you guys for small advice and guidance, not the base of my research. If you all are so against helping, then I will stay far away from this forum. Sheesh, teach me for saying some good words about this board and thinking they might be a useful tool....
It seems like this start up is mostly hype. A dream job? Do you have any idea the amount of hours a "start up" will work you with the intentions of offering you a "piece of the pie" along with a modest salary, if things take off? I used to hire college graduates for that very reason.
1) You can hire them for 1/2 the price of a seasoned veteran
2) you can work them to death because I put them on salary and give them a workload to choke a horse.
I will be very surprised if this company is the largest employer in Florida in 4 years. That's not going to happen no matter if the young CEO has a doctorate and big ties at NASA. He has a HUGE up hill battle no matter how good he is at convincing the state and local governments to give him loans and tax perks for having a car factory in Florida. He has high hopes and some $$ to back him, but without results, the company may easily fail in 4-5 years. The car market is not something you can just get into with $1,000,000's to spend, you now need $1,000,000,000's to make a national brand and even then you won't be profitable for years, and years to come.
As someone's already stated, Tesla is a company still struggling and may never really become anything unless Toyota or someone buys them up.
WH
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 1:46 PM
by BMWgiant
WH wrote:BMWgiant wrote:
I can't get a simple "good luck"? Like I said, it's a dream job. I said the interview went great. I'm not saying that I've been hired. I am aiming high, and I am simply hoping I made it to the second round. I would be extremely lucky if I get a position like this in this stage in my career...
As far as the company is concerned, I'm not worried about it's legitimacy. I've done the research. I've read articles on articles, press releases and more. The company itself has tried to keep everything under wraps, so it's not like their trying to feed me a load of crap to try to take advantage of me. It is a young company, looking for young innovative minds. My job description in my original post might be a tad exaggerated. They currently have an out of house marketing firm taking care of their advertising, but they need somebody in house to proof everything. To help generate new ideas, and start an in-house team.
If it wasn't for the fact that the CEO is only 27, a doctorate in engineering, already has a partnership with NASA, millions of dollars backing the company and is projected to be one of the top employers in Florida, I wouldn't think I had a chance. BUT, the CEO is young himself, so I think that if I can prove my abilities, I may actually be able to find myself with at least a small chance at this position. It won't be easy, but most things in life aren't.
Again, it's a dream job that I am going for. I was just thinking of coming to you guys for small advice and guidance, not the base of my research. If you all are so against helping, then I will stay far away from this forum. Sheesh, teach me for saying some good words about this board and thinking they might be a useful tool....
It seems like this start up is mostly hype. A dream job? Do you have any idea the amount of hours a "start up" will work you with the intentions of offering you a "piece of the pie" along with a modest salary, if things take off? I used to hire college graduates for that very reason.
1) You can hire them for 1/2 the price of a seasoned veteran
2) you can work them to death because I put them on salary and give them a workload to choke a horse.
I will be very surprised if this company is the largest employer in Florida in 4 years. That's not going to happen no matter if the young CEO has a doctorate and big ties at NASA. He has a HUGE up hill battle no matter how good he is at convincing the state and local governments to give him loans and tax perks for having a car factory in Florida. He has high hopes and some $$ to back him, but without results, the company may easily fail in 4-5 years. The car market is not something you can just get into with $1,000,000's to spend, you now need $1,000,000,000's to make a national brand and even then you won't be profitable for years, and years to come.
As someone's already stated, Tesla is a company still struggling and may never really become anything unless Toyota or someone buys them up.
WH
I say I'd be made for life from this job, simply because whether it fails or not, the marketing for this company is going to be seen by millions of people. Take Daewoo for example. They failed miserably, but I guarantee that the marketing team behind the release of that car company still have "good" jobs to this day. Whether it's for an advertising firm or another motor company, I'm sure that having credentials like unveiling a new vehicle, has kept them employed ever since.
I hope the company succeeds, simply for what it is that they are promising. I however am a realist and know that it will be a long road ahead for them to do so. Either way, I would love to be behind it. I look at it as a dream job, since marketing for a major car company is undeniably a dream of mine, both as a car guy and as an advertising major.
If hiring me means that they will work me like a horse, I'll take it! Like I said, it's the experience I am looking for and it is a job I can only dream of. I'd love to be worked like a horse if I get to do what I love doing, and you know what, I'd love doing this!
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 1:50 PM
by TSMacNeil
Good luck, Blake.
I think if you have your heart set on this, go for it. I'd add, however, that you better go in to this with eyes wide open and ALL due diligence done on your part. I'm no marketing guy. I don't sell shit well (unless I really, really believe in the product)
You should prepare yourself before you jump in to this and possibly be worked to death during your most productive working years. Who are the investors? How much money do they have? How much has the CEO put in of his own money?
When do they plan to bring something to market?
Anytime somebody banks on a "long-shot" they should remember it's just that.
Tesla was a perfect example. Everybody has a hybrid now, what makes this company better and sets them apart from the entrenched competition?
You better be able to answer all these questions (and more)
before you commit.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 1:56 PM
by Duke
This is a week in Blake's life:
Work, work, work........tinker on the car, more work. Then he gets a little bored and thinks, "man, things are going too well, I'll go post something on MyE28". Then he gets his ass kicked.
After the ass-kicken, back to work, work, work.............tinker on the car, work....etc.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:00 PM
by TSMacNeil
Duke wrote:This is a week in Blake's life:
Work, work, work........tinker on the car, more work. Then he gets a little bored and thinks, "man, things are going too well, I'll go post something on MyE28". Then he gets his ass kicked.
After the ass-kicken, back to work, work, work.............tinker on the car, work....etc.
I've seen the trend.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:07 PM
by Mark in Toronto
BMWgiant wrote:And as far as the skilled workers visa is concerned, it really is that easy. There is a point system that they have established that rates you based on age, college degree, ability to speak english, ability to adapt to Canada, and more. I've already done the math and I do qualify for this visa. Once you have this visa, you have the ability to live in, and apply for work anywhere in Canada for a year until you renew the Visa. I've done the research, which is why Canada became so feasible to me.
Just to clarify, it's my understanding the point system applies to those who want to immigrate to Canada and become a permanent resident. It's a common practice used in many Western countries.
Skilled workers are selected as permanent residents based on their education, work experience, knowledge of English and/or French, and other criteria that have been shown to help them become economically established in Canada....Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
For those who are seeking a work permit the following applies:
The first step is to obtain a valid job offer from a Canadian employer. Open work permits are the exception and do not require a prior job offer. Open work permits may be available to the spouses/common law partners of certain work permit holders, the spouses/common law partners of foreign students in Canada, asylum seekers, in-land sponsored family members, and destitute students in Canada.....]...Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:10 PM
by BMWgiant
Mark in Toronto wrote:BMWgiant wrote:And as far as the skilled workers visa is concerned, it really is that easy. There is a point system that they have established that rates you based on age, college degree, ability to speak english, ability to adapt to Canada, and more. I've already done the math and I do qualify for this visa. Once you have this visa, you have the ability to live in, and apply for work anywhere in Canada for a year until you renew the Visa. I've done the research, which is why Canada became so feasible to me.
Just to clarify, it's my understanding the point system applies to those who want to immigrate to Canada and become a permanent resident. It's a common practice used in many Western countries.
Skilled workers are selected as permanent residents based on their education, work experience, knowledge of English and/or French, and other criteria that have been shown to help them become economically established in Canada....Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
For those who are seeking a work permit the following applies:
The first step is to obtain a valid job offer from a Canadian employer. Open work permits are the exception and do not require a prior job offer. Open work permits may be available to the spouses/common law partners of certain work permit holders, the spouses/common law partners of foreign students in Canada, asylum seekers, in-land sponsored family members, and destitute students in Canada.....]...Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
Well, I'll figure something out. American citizens work in Canada all the time. If I set that as my next goal, I'll do it as well...
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:10 PM
by Mark in Toronto
Duke wrote:This is a week in Blake's life:
Work, work, work........tinker on the car, more work. Then he gets a little bored and thinks, "man, things are going too well, I'll go post something on MyE28". Then he gets his ass kicked.
After the ass-kicken, back to work, work, work.............tinker on the car, work....etc.
Sigh...the return of a class(less) act.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:18 PM
by TSMacNeil
Blake, in addition to your other research on the company and it's finances I suggest you determine how much $$ they have set aside for the potential lawsuit from USAirways.
USAirways has a copyrighted flag logo that appears to be copied in the next-to-last slide on the cars' website.
http://www.averamotors.com/#
Maybe in your next interview with them you should bring that to their attention...it might just land you the job.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:26 PM
by Duke
Mark in Toronto wrote: Sigh...the return of a class(less) act.
....stupid Canadian that bought a MM motor and now feels a fool.
I knew it would not be long before this was needed again.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:34 PM
by BMWgiant
TSMacNeil wrote:Blake, in addition to your other research on the company and it's finances I suggest you determine how much $$ they have set aside for the potential lawsuit from USAirways.
USAirways has a copyrighted flag logo that appears to be copied in the next-to-last slide on the cars' website.
http://www.averamotors.com/#
Maybe in your next interview with them you should bring that to their attention...it might just land you the job.
There is a slight difference in the logos. For instance, the USAirway's logo has as smaller square in the upper left corner and only two lines going to that square, where as the one on Avera Motors site has three lines going into the square. It still might be too close in similarity, so I might just bring that up. Thanks for pointing that out!
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:40 PM
by TSMacNeil
I'm not a lawyer...but I worked at USAirways for 10 years. As soon as I saw that slide, I thought USAirways. Thats what the lawyer's gonna say if they get wind of this.
They would be wise to make it "markedly different" so as to not get crushed by USAirways who absolutely will protect their trademark. It may be "different enough", but they may have to defend that legally.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:41 PM
by WH
TSMacNeil wrote:Blake, in addition to your other research on the company and it's finances I suggest you determine how much $$ they have set aside for the potential lawsuit from USAirways.
USAirways has a copyrighted flag logo that appears to be copied in the next-to-last slide on the cars' website.
http://www.averamotors.com/#
Maybe in your next interview with them you should bring that to their attention...it might just land you the job.
Good point.
Last friend I had involved with an automotive start up found out the company was sued by GM within months for designing a grill that looked too close to the HUMMER. Being they were building baby HUMMER's called "Humbugs" that made sense. Apparently GM had what they considered legal rights to that "look, and feel design" (remember Apple/Microsoft suit?) Anyway, they were forced to change the grill design and then the company fell apart. The investors lost $1M's in that whole fiasco.
This company may find itself in hot water once they have a product to sell and the competition see exactly what they're doing. I imagine they may have to pay some patients holders or may get close to infringing upon some patients held by their competition. That always brings things to court for a Looooong time.
WH
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 2:41 PM
by Mark in Toronto
Duke wrote:I knew it would not be long before this was needed again.
Silly farmyard hillbilly hick loud mouth who bought
a funny looking, death trap, mini van performing British
car and who also failed to build a high performance, functional e28.
That’s All folks!!!!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah......
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 3:06 PM
by Shawn D.
BMWgiant wrote:Mark in Toronto wrote:BMWgiant wrote:And as far as the skilled workers visa is concerned, it really is that easy. There is a point system that they have established that rates you based on age, college degree, ability to speak english, ability to adapt to Canada, and more. I've already done the math and I do qualify for this visa. Once you have this visa, you have the ability to live in, and apply for work anywhere in Canada for a year until you renew the Visa. I've done the research, which is why Canada became so feasible to me.
Just to clarify, it's my understanding the point system applies to those who want to immigrate to Canada and become a permanent resident. It's a common practice used in many Western countries.
Skilled workers are selected as permanent residents based on their education, work experience, knowledge of English and/or French, and other criteria that have been shown to help them become economically established in Canada....Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
For those who are seeking a work permit the following applies:
The first step is to obtain a valid job offer from a Canadian employer. Open work permits are the exception and do not require a prior job offer. Open work permits may be available to the spouses/common law partners of certain work permit holders, the spouses/common law partners of foreign students in Canada, asylum seekers, in-land sponsored family members, and destitute students in Canada.....]...Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
Well, I'll figure something out. American citizens work in Canada all the time. If I set that as my next goal, I'll do it as well...
That was my point in the first place -- you cannot just move there and then look for a job. Saying "I'll figure something out" doesn't really counter the requirements laid out by Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 4:29 PM
by tsmall07
BMWgiant wrote: experience working with big name corporations like Apple, Costa Del Mar, Nissan, Dominion Enterprises and Zimmerman Advertising Agency.
You forgot about being a beanie babie salesman.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 4:47 PM
by BMWgiant
tsmall07 wrote:BMWgiant wrote: experience working with big name corporations like Apple, Costa Del Mar, Nissan, Dominion Enterprises and Zimmerman Advertising Agency.
You forgot about being a beanie babie salesman.
I left out a lot of my prior jobs.... And yes, beanbag salesman was one of them... Of course I am not going to list that I was a grocery bagboy, LaZboy delivery man, a poolside gate guard, an old navy clothes folder, or a number more of the meaningless jobs I've held just to get me through school... I probably can't even remember all of them anyway!
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 4:50 PM
by BMWgiant
Shawn D. wrote:BMWgiant wrote:Mark in Toronto wrote:BMWgiant wrote:And as far as the skilled workers visa is concerned, it really is that easy. There is a point system that they have established that rates you based on age, college degree, ability to speak english, ability to adapt to Canada, and more. I've already done the math and I do qualify for this visa. Once you have this visa, you have the ability to live in, and apply for work anywhere in Canada for a year until you renew the Visa. I've done the research, which is why Canada became so feasible to me.
Just to clarify, it's my understanding the point system applies to those who want to immigrate to Canada and become a permanent resident. It's a common practice used in many Western countries.
Skilled workers are selected as permanent residents based on their education, work experience, knowledge of English and/or French, and other criteria that have been shown to help them become economically established in Canada....Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
For those who are seeking a work permit the following applies:
The first step is to obtain a valid job offer from a Canadian employer. Open work permits are the exception and do not require a prior job offer. Open work permits may be available to the spouses/common law partners of certain work permit holders, the spouses/common law partners of foreign students in Canada, asylum seekers, in-land sponsored family members, and destitute students in Canada.....]...Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
Well, I'll figure something out. American citizens work in Canada all the time. If I set that as my next goal, I'll do it as well...
That was my point in the first place -- you cannot just move there and then look for a job. Saying "I'll figure something out" doesn't really counter the requirements laid out by Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
You are correct sir. But, if I want to move to Canada, I will. I have this thing that is called motivation, and an unwillingness to say no. If It's something I want, I'll do it. I've already been in short discussions with my two current companies that I have just started about the possibility of expanding them into the great white north. Nothing is out of the realm of possibility. Sure it may not be easy, but as I said earlier, nothing in life ever is. When it comes to the point that I know Canada is my next step, I'll make it there.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 4:52 PM
by wkohler
Wow. Motivation and an unwillingness to say no versus the government of a country. These are the battles that make one tear-jerker of a Lifetime movie.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 5:09 PM
by BMWgiant
wkohler wrote:Wow. Motivation and an unwillingness to say no versus the government of a country. These are the battles that make one tear-jerker of a Lifetime movie.
If other U.S. citizens can work in Canada, why can't I? If I can get a Canadian job that will sponsor a visa, or an American job that has work in Canada, why can't I work there? If I want to get a job in Canada, I can. I just need the motivation and willingness not to give up. I have nothing holding me back.
As far as the movie is concerned, just look out for it in 20 years... If it's not my life story, it will be somebody from my family's life story, and I am sure I'll be a character...
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 5:31 PM
by pldlnr
As far as the movie is concerned, just look out for it in 20 years... If it's not my life story, it will be somebody from my family's life story, and I am sure I'll be a character...
Played by a 30-something Justin Bieber.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 5:33 PM
by wkohler
pldlnr wrote:As far as the movie is concerned, just look out for it in 20 years... If it's not my life story, it will be somebody from my family's life story, and I am sure I'll be a character...
Played by a 30-something Justin Bieber.
He's been getting bullied!
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 5:41 PM
by oldskool
MUST be a full moon a' waiting in the wings. . .
You people are certifiable.
Posted: Oct 19, 2010 5:47 PM
by Cooperman
Moon is waxing. Going full on the 23rd...
Blake,
Your optimism is admirable. I just hope you don't end up disillusioned and on a curb with a bottle of Rich and Rare in your hand if things don't all come up roses.
Actually, THAT sounds more like a Lifetime movie...