Anybody use FCP Groton, LLC Manufacturer for Control Arms?

[wkohler]

Tie rods and all steering components have been replaced with Meyle products. I would NOT replace steering components with FCP Groton parts. From my research, the steering components are what go bad. I have not read much about the upper and lower control arms being as bad. They are inferior to OEM products, no doubt, but their life span should be longer than a year. As Skip said earlier, he has over 3 years on his FCP control arms.

I can't believe you're being so stubborn about this - to the point of defending them on the longevity based upon one single anecdotal experience - and Skip didn't even tell you how many miles he drove. He could have driven 3,000 miles in 3 years. You really don't know.

So, go ahead and buy the eBay stuff. Just remember that when you buy on eBay, pay with PayPal and have the stuff shipped to you, FCP Groton is still making a profit on your purchase. Those arms are probably $20 a piece to them.

So, once you buy the stuff and install it and it fails within a year, don't come crying back saying you need to buy more stuff because it done broked. We all tried to tell you you're making a mistake. I know you went to college, but in spite of that, I'd think you would have learned somewhere that it's better to do something right once, than to do it on the cheap several times.

[Kyle in NO]

Do remember that Blake never takes anyone's advice. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Dana R]

What I don't get about these crappy parts is why the rubber boots suck so much. I've seen the same thing happen to swaybar links and tie rods. Even if the ball joints are decently made, they'll fail in no time with torn boots, and I've seen good quality ball joints last 10+ years and the boots were still fine. Don't buy the crap!!!!! I did once about 7 years ago and I learned. Don't be a moron and not learn from our collective experience. If you do, you are a dumb shit.

[scott@fcpgroton]

I am considering purchasing this control arm kit on ebay, and curious if it's a good buy or not. Has anybody else bought this kit? I've never heard of the manufacturer and I'd like to know if I should just run or maybe take a chance with this company. Seems like a good price for the set.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E28- ... 043wt_1010

Guys,

I appreciate your input on our products. I just want to clarify one thing: FCP Groton is NOT a manufacturer. We are a parts supplier. We offer every brand including Lemforder, Meyle, Karlyn, Ocap, APA, Moog/TRW etc. About 2 years ago we had a really bad run with a company that produced inferior chassis and suspension parts. As soon as we recognized the issue, we removed all inventory from the shelves and started sourcing alternative brands and implementing stricter quality control measures. We even have a lifetime warranty program in place for all of our products. http://warranty.fcpgroton.com. You can even talk with our ASE tech directly at 877-634-0063 who has a big hand in our QC process.

BMWgiant, I would actually like to send you this control arm kit free of charge, so you can inspect the quality yourself. Anyone for that matter who has had a suspension piece fail or boot rip, I will gladly replace it even if it falls past the year warranty. You can email me at [email protected]

Mods, I apologize in advance if this is inappropriate post and would be willing to sponsor the board if needed.

[Geerhed]

Lifetime warranty: "Product must be installed by an ASE certified technician. If the product is not installed by an ASE certified technician, FCP Groton does not provide a FREE limited lifetime warranty. "

I do hope that they've done something about the quality of their parts, because they were unsafe.
If he was offering Meyle or Lemforder parts at that price, it'd be a deal. I would like to qualify my prior remarks in that the folks I knew to be unsatisfied had purchased parts from FCP Groton, not that they were FCP Groton MADE parts. Deutsche Parts and Hamburg Technic were, I think , the usual culprits.

[Dana R]

I am considering purchasing this control arm kit on ebay, and curious if it's a good buy or not. Has anybody else bought this kit? I've never heard of the manufacturer and I'd like to know if I should just run or maybe take a chance with this company. Seems like a good price for the set.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E28- ... 043wt_1010

Guys,

I appreciate your input on our products. I just want to clarify one thing: FCP Groton is NOT a manufacturer. We are a parts supplier. We offer every brand including Lemforder, Meyle, Karlyn, Ocap, APA, Moog/TRW etc. About 2 years ago we had a really bad run with a company Hamburg Technic that produced inferior chassis and suspension parts. As soon as we recognized the issue, we removed all inventory from the shelves and started sourcing alternative brands and implementing stricter quality control measures. We even have a lifetime warranty program in place for all of our products. http://warranty.fcpgroton.com. You can even talk with our ASE tech directly at 877-634-0063 who has a big hand in our QC process.

BMWgiant, I would actually like to send you this control arm kit free of charge, so you can inspect the quality yourself. Anyone for that matter who has had a suspension piece fail or boot rip, I will gladly replace it even if it falls past the year warranty. You can email me at [email protected]

Mods, I apologize in advance if this is inappropriate post and would be willing to sponsor the board if needed.

Scott,

That is a very graceful offer. I bought swaybar links and lower control arms from you 5 years and only 6000 miles ago, and I had to replace the links last summer (I threw the old ones out, but the boots were shot). I'll reinspect the lower control arms when spring comes and the car comes out for driving season.

Dana

[scott@fcpgroton]

Scott,

That is a very graceful offer. I bought swaybar links and lower control arms from you 5 years and only 6000 miles ago, and I had to replace the links last summer (I threw the old ones out, but the boots were shot). I'll reinspect the lower control arms when spring comes and the car comes out for driving season.

Dana

Dana,

After you inspect them feel free to email me directly at [email protected]

[Blue Shadow]

geez our newly minted florida 'gaduate' is too stubborn to take advice. He knows that the one good opinion is better than all the bad ones as he is forestalling this purchase and out of the blue he gets an offer of free of charge. What the hell is that?

So going a bit further, does giant have any idea what the primary cause of front end shimmy is in these cars? It ain't the steering components he replaced recently. But I'm sure he will run a thread to a couple pages figuring this one out. What did he learn at florida?

[BMWgiant]

I am considering purchasing this control arm kit on ebay, and curious if it's a good buy or not. Has anybody else bought this kit? I've never heard of the manufacturer and I'd like to know if I should just run or maybe take a chance with this company. Seems like a good price for the set.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E28- ... 043wt_1010

Guys,

I appreciate your input on our products. I just want to clarify one thing: FCP Groton is NOT a manufacturer. We are a parts supplier. We offer every brand including Lemforder, Meyle, Karlyn, Ocap, APA, Moog/TRW etc. About 2 years ago we had a really bad run with a company Hamburg Technic that produced inferior chassis and suspension parts. As soon as we recognized the issue, we removed all inventory from the shelves and started sourcing alternative brands and implementing stricter quality control measures. We even have a lifetime warranty program in place for all of our products. http://warranty.fcpgroton.com. You can even talk with our ASE tech directly at 877-634-0063 who has a big hand in our QC process.

BMWgiant, I would actually like to send you this control arm kit free of charge, so you can inspect the quality yourself. Anyone for that matter who has had a suspension piece fail or boot rip, I will gladly replace it even if it falls past the year warranty. You can email me at [email protected]

Mods, I apologize in advance if this is inappropriate post and would be willing to sponsor the board if needed.

Email has been sent! Thanks for the great offer!

[Coldswede]

Wow, a supplier actually willing to go on record and offer a guarantee like this! I may have to change my mind on this company depending on 'Giants and others experiences.

In any case, I salute Scottd for the effort and willingness to come here and prove us wrong.

[WVe28]

Wow. Ya never know who's gonna show up around here. Kudos to you, Scott, for standing up for your products.

FWIW, I ordered a kit from FCP Groton off Ebay a while back when my tie rods and a few other things were SHOT and I didn't have the money for OEM stuff. I never put on the control arms and a few other things, but the tie-rods, idler arm and sway bar links are still on the car. I haven't had any issues out of them. Granted, I don't drive the car all year, though.

[mooseheadm5]

I wouldn't take that Karlyn, TRW, and Moog stuff over a quality part even if you did give it to me. For the record, I am also an ASE certified tech and nearly every time one of our customers (or techs) wanted to cheap out and put the above parts on their car they have regretted it. I run screaming from some of the other brands you have listed as well. Chinese QC is still not up to par with the Western world.

[mogie]

How does a tie rod end up looking like that in 6 months? I know you guys have bad winters over there, but really?

I've seen parts go bad like that in the same time frame. Bad winters and the fact that HT parts are not cad plated but sprayed with some cheap CAD looking stuff that rusts within weeks as i've seen. So it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case. Salt gets through all that crappy paint.

[scott@fcpgroton]

I wouldn't take that Karlyn, TRW, and Moog stuff over a quality part even if you did give it to me. For the record, I am also an ASE certified tech and nearly every time one of our customers (or techs) wanted to cheap out and put the above parts on their car they have regretted it. I run screaming from some of the other brands you have listed as well. Chinese QC is still not up to par with the Western world.

For the record, TRW/Moog is an actual OEM supplier for many European manufacturers including Volvo and BMW. Every manufacturer you are familiar with and have come to know as Original Equipment have the most of their products manufactured in China. Look at Zimmerman - "German" discs manufactured in China. There's this little workaround that states as long as you make one modification to the part in the country, you can claim it as the country of origin. We've been to AAPEX, talked to all the manufactures and we've even traveled to Europe and ASIA to experience it firsthand. We've been around the block, made some mistakes, got seriously flamed and had to stick our tail between our legs and admit our mistakes.

Regardless of where its made, there has to be some strict QC in place. There's just way to much garbage out there.

[scott@fcpgroton]

Wow, a supplier actually willing to go on record and offer a guarantee like this! I may have to change my mind on this company depending on 'Giants and others experiences.

In any case, I salute Scottd for the effort and willingness to come here and prove us wrong.

Appreciate that. Just doing the same as all you would for a company or cause you stand behind.

[mooseheadm5]

For the record, TRW/Moog is an actual OEM supplier for many European manufacturers including Volvo and BMW.

Ahh, yes. I'm familiar with that argument and was wondering if you'd bring that up. They may supply something for BMW, but they do not supply BMW with suspension and steering components for our cars.

And for the record, I don't have a problem with all Chinese made products. Some companies make their parts in China but under very strict QC. Others just buy any crap and put it in their own box (companies like Karlyn are notorious for this- you may get something good one day and get crap later.) While a part that is made for company A might be made on the same line as the cheap equivalent, that doesn't guarantee that the equivalent part is worth a damn. Many things are made on the "ghost shift" in Chinese factories. They will make parts for one company and then run another shift off the record and/or sell rejects from the original company and dump them on companies like Ocap.

I appreciate that you stand by your products, and that makes all the difference in the world. I will say, though, that some people will find a failed part and skip the warranty choosing instead to lambast you for the rest of their lives. We get our parts from Worldpac and IMC who have very good warranties, but wasting time replacing a failed part is wasting money, so we steer clear of the iffy suppliers.

[scott@fcpgroton]

For the record, TRW/Moog is an actual OEM supplier for many European manufacturers including Volvo and BMW.

Ahh, yes. I'm familiar with that argument and was wondering if you'd bring that up. They may supply something for BMW, but they do not supply BMW with suspension and steering components for our cars.

And for the record, I don't have a problem with all Chinese made products. Some companies make their parts in China but under very strict QC. Others just buy any crap and put it in their own box (companies like Karlyn are notorious for this- you may get something good one day and get crap later.) While a part that is made for company A might be made on the same line as the cheap equivalent, that doesn't guarantee that the equivalent part is worth a damn. Many things are made on the "ghost shift" in Chinese factories. They will make parts for one company and then run another shift off the record and/or sell rejects from the original company and dump them on companies like Ocap.

I appreciate that you stand by your products, and that makes all the difference in the world. I will say, though, that some people will find a failed part and skip the warranty choosing instead to lambast you for the rest of their lives. We get our parts from Worldpac and IMC who have very good warranties, but wasting time replacing a failed part is wasting money, so we steer clear of the iffy suppliers.

Karlyn is tough. Sometimes great products, sometimes very questionable. What are your thoughts on APA (uro) ?

[rlomba8204]

I have but one question, and for sake of perfect clarity it is rhetorical:

Why do people waste time responding to Giant's questions?


Lots of very smart and knowledgeable people have responded here -- moose, Keith, John, Chris, Kyle, and others -- all people whose opinion I respect and would seriously consider in the context of the question asked. And I am not trying to be mean to Giant -- seriously. I have no problem helping those who need help. But this is someone who holds out for what he wants to hear and then does it. As I have said previously, he doesn't know anything, he does not try to learn anything, and when someone takes the time to teach him something, he doesn't listen unless it is what he wants to hear. That is a perfect example of ignorance.

So let him go buy shit parts for his car, and then, when he inevitably comes back here to whine like a 14 year old girl with a bad bleed because his cheap-assed parts didn't last, as predicted, ignore him again. Why waste your time trying to educate those who don't want to learn? I know that in writing that I come across as a dick, but you needn't have the IQ of Albert Einstein to have a happy and successful life, rather, you just need to have the humilty to know when to listen to the opinions of those who have valuable experience from which you can learn.

And finally, by way of preemption, save the "I'm a poor student" bullshit. No one makes you drive a BMW. And no one restricts your ability to work. The car you drive says nothing about you as a person, so if you cannot afford to drive a certain car and keep it serviced appropriately, find something cheaper or take public transportation until you can. Again, for sake of emphasis, the car you drive has no bearing on your value as a human being. You do, however, look like a jackass perpetuating a situation that is not sustainable, e.g., driving a car you can't afford, and wasting people's time trying to figure out how to do so by asking foolish, inane questions.

(And btw, genuine BMW parts -- the ones the car came with -- aren't made in China. That's reason enough for me to stick with what made the car a BMW in the first place.)

Carry on. Or better yet, w/r/t this thread, don't.

[mooseheadm5]

I believe we have had some success with the uro parts. They sell lenses for Volvos, right?

Basically, it seems like you are approaching this thing the right way. The best thing to do is order the parts and see how they work out. Once you are sure that they can be trusted you can market them and happily stand behind your product without losing money on junk. You could go directly to the enthusiasts asking for testers, as you are pretty much doing here. If you act as transparently, as you appear to be doing here, you can avoid people being labeled as shills. Good luck. If you have questions about specific parts (brand and part) for BMW, Benz, or Volvo, make a list and send it to me and I'll ask the shop owner his experience.

Ray- lots of the parts we get from BMW now are made in China (but you are right- the originals on the E28 were definitely not.) Crank and cam position sensors for M54s, for instance. The ones in the BMW box always seem to work just fine and say they are Chinese, but the ones from another manufacturer (Hella, I think) have been DOA on more than a half dozen occasions or have died a quick death causing a come back.
BTW, you're a big meanie

[wkohler]

I installed a uro parts center bearing once and felt dirty for doing so. It was only for an experiment of reinforcing it with a piece of fuel hose. I thought the quality was pretty poor - especially considering the circlip wouldn't fit with the dust washer in place.

[rlomba8204]

Moose, when I've bought parts for the cars from BMW, I've never seen a "made in China" label, only "made in Germany." Perhaps that is changing. That being said, I'd still bet if it's made in China for BMW the QC is where it needs to be.

Thanks for the compliment.

[mooseheadm5]

Yup, the times they are a changin'. We do get BMW parts from the dealer made in China now. I will say that I have never had a problem with any of them.

Now I remember- the Febi crank position sensors made in China are crap, but the BMW ones made in China seem to hold up just fine. QC is the only explanation I can think of.

[Blue Shadow]

Why do people waste time responding to Giant's questions?

Isn't that the truth. I did because I wanted to prop him for spending enough time in Gainesville that they gave him a diploma but he still asks stoopid questions.

[BMWgiant]

I do my research. It includes ask questions to this board. I find my answers by combining the two results. I love you guys.

By the way, I'm no longer a poor college student. I'm now a poor graduate without a job.

I'm just inches away from making my car perfect and FCP Groton has just helped me get that much closer, Chinese parts or not. It's still better than bad, 23 year old parts.

[scott@fcpgroton]

Adding an OEM line to every product that we offer is where we are going to start (which we will be addressing this week by adding Lemforder and Meyle to the site for every BMW suspension piece) , but we also need to deal with the purchasing aspect.

How can FCP verify that the parts we buy from our vendors are up to par? Will it suffice to have every critical part that we sell be certified following the ISO/TS16949 standard?

If we cannot have the control over the quality from our US vendors such as APA, Karlyn, ESI, MTC, GLM, and others can we no longer buy from them? Tough question but if our reputation is on the line and we are the ones fighting this battle, we shouldn't be fighting their battles as well. I am going to have to strongly consider what we are buying from these vendors moving forward. We will need to request that every part be ISO/TS 16949 certified and have the appropriate paperwork verifying this. I am not saying that their products are all subpar, but if there is no standard in place to catch the bad ones that get entered in to the market from these vendors and manufacturers, then FCP and the consumers will ultimately feel the effects the most.

[BMWgiant]

Parts received! They are going into the car today! Thank you very much Scott! I'll be keeping the board up to date with how they hold up.

[John in VA]

"How they hold up" will be based on parts AND installation qualities. Are you going to be able to tighen the requisite fasteners with the suspension loaded properly?

[scott@fcpgroton]

"How they hold up" will be based on parts AND installation qualities. Are you going to be able to tighen the requisite fasteners with the suspension loaded properly?

Agreed, we would like to verify they are being installed correctly.

BTW, Lemforder and Meyle products going up on the website as we speak. I've downloaded a master list of BMW suspension and steering from the Lemforder/ZF Trading website and in the process of compiling a massive spreadsheet that contains pricing on Genuine BMW, Lemforder, Meyle, Sachs, Febi, and TRW/Moog. This should be completed by Wednesday EOD. (Over 250 Part Numbers)

Although it is a small step, I want everyone to realize not only do we carry all of the above mentioned brands, but we have extremely competitive pricing.

[BMWgiant]

"How they hold up" will be based on parts AND installation qualities. Are you going to be able to tighen the requisite fasteners with the suspension loaded properly?

A buddy of mind did the job, with me assisting a bit. We had 600 lbs of weight on the front end of the car for tightening. I am pretty sure it was done properly.

[Coldswede]

We had 600 lbs of weight on the front end of the car for tightening. I am pretty sure it was done properly.

FUBAR already