WWOT Poison, Dokken & Sebastian Bach

[russc]

Being somewhat of a Boston nut, its interesting that you brought this up. IMHO, Tom Scholz to me is not really a prolific or even medicore song writing talent either. The first two albums are all derived from Tom and his earlier bands in Boston, of which he wrote very little. He took those songs that others wrote and massached them into the first two compilations. I have some demo LPs of songs in there original form, and some are familar and some are very different.

Now don't get me wrong, what Tom did in his basement with Brad, an 8track tape recorder and a Marshall stack with a bad transistor(thats why the first 2 albums sound the way they do) is truely a once in a lifetime event. I still believe the first album is the most sonicly pleasing rock album ever. Brad in the 70s had simply an astonishing voice. And the layering/mixing for his lead vocals and background vocals was true mastery by Scholz given the equipment he was using. This was Tom's greatest asset, taking others music and making it truely great in the same way that Mutt Lange has done with others we know well.

Based on the strenght of the first album, your correct in that Tom can plug in any comptent musicians and play live to large clubs/small arenas for about as long as he wants to. Its just to bad he wasn't able to follow up the fist two albums with any real music in any real time frame that would have been relavent. By the time 3rd Stage came out in '86, Boston was irrelvent and more importantly the musical land scape has significantly changed, not to mention Tom had pissed off or on every important music industry exec. in the business. And lets face it, 3rd Stage and Walk On can't hold the first ablums jock!

Ive seen Boston play live evertime the've played at multiple venues(~15shows), but decided after Brads tragic death to shut that down and live in what will now be the Boston past.

RussC

Last band I saw wasn't in Boston; it was Boston ...

Thats not Boston thats sacrilege! RIP Brad Delp! BASTARDS!

Boston was originally just Tom Scholz overlaying all the instruments and he brought in Brad Delp to do the vocals. After they snagged a record contract, everyone else was a pick-up player - and that generally remained the case throughout the band's history. Scholz & Delp were the only two constants. Delp's death is tragic, of course, but as long as Scholz can put together a lineup and call it Boston, no one will do it better. Whether you like the result (I am lukewarm, but they still sound very good to my aging ears, which first heard them live in only their second concert outside of New England) or not, it is still the best, and most authentic, Boston-type band in the world ... and that ain't bad, all things considered.

As you grow older, you learn to deal with dead rock stars in all your favorite bands. My generation has been doin' it ever since Brian Jones drowned in 1969 ...

[FastFiver]

It would be intersting to see who has made more money, and who has more top 40 hits. And actually Morrissey is a fag he admits it!

[citation needed]

[wkohler]

Being somewhat of a Boston nut, its interesting that you brought this up. IMHO, Tom Scholz to me is not really a prolific or even medicore song writing talent either. The first two albums are all derived from Tom and his earlier bands in Boston, of which he wrote very little. He took those songs that others wrote and massached them into the first two compilations. I have some demo LPs of songs in there original form, and some are familar and some are very different.

Now don't get me wrong, what Tom did in his basement with Brad, an 8track tape recorder and a Marshall stack with a bad transistor(thats why the first 2 albums sound the way they do) is truely a once in a lifetime event. I still believe the first album is the most sonicly pleasing rock album ever. Brad in the 70s had simply an astonishing voice. And the layering/mixing for his lead vocals and background vocals was true mastery by Scholz given the equipment he was using. This was Tom's greatest asset, taking others music and making it truely great in the same way that Mutt Lange has done with others we know well.

Based on the strenght of the first album, your correct in that Tom can plug in any comptent musicians and play live to large clubs/small arenas for about as long as he wants to. Its just to bad he wasn't able to follow up the fist two albums with any real music in any real time frame that would have been relavent. By the time 3rd Stage came out in '86, Boston was irrelvent and more importantly the musical land scape has significantly changed, not to mention Tom had pissed off or on every important music industry exec. in the business. And lets face it, 3rd Stage and Walk On can't hold the first ablums jock!

Ive seen Boston play live evertime the've played at multiple venues(~15shows), but decided after Brads tragic death to shut that down and live in what will now be the Boston past.

RussC

Last band I saw wasn't in Boston; it was Boston ...

Thats not Boston thats sacrilege! RIP Brad Delp! BASTARDS!

Boston was originally just Tom Scholz overlaying all the instruments and he brought in Brad Delp to do the vocals. After they snagged a record contract, everyone else was a pick-up player - and that generally remained the case throughout the band's history. Scholz & Delp were the only two constants. Delp's death is tragic, of course, but as long as Scholz can put together a lineup and call it Boston, no one will do it better. Whether you like the result (I am lukewarm, but they still sound very good to my aging ears, which first heard them live in only their second concert outside of New England) or not, it is still the best, and most authentic, Boston-type band in the world ... and that ain't bad, all things considered.

As you grow older, you learn to deal with dead rock stars in all your favorite bands. My generation has been doin' it ever since Brian Jones drowned in 1969 ...

I think that what Boston really brought to the table was the sound. Arena Rock really hadn't been done before they came around - the lyrics themselves were just as generic as anything else out there, as was the tension within the band. You have to give Scholz some credit for engineering the band's gear, though, but it obviously wasn't that reliable over the 6 years it took to record Third Stage, which is really 36:37 of the same song.

[arcangel]

Being somewhat of a Boston nut, its interesting that you brought this up. IMHO, Tom Scholz to me is not really a prolific or even medicore song writing talent either. The first two albums are all derived from Tom and his earlier bands in Boston, of which he wrote very little. He took those songs that others wrote and massached them into the first two compilations. I have some demo LPs of songs in there original form, and some are familar and some are very different.

Now don't get me wrong, what Tom did in his basement with Brad, an 8track tape recorder and a Marshall stack with a bad transistor(thats why the first 2 albums sound the way they do) is truely a once in a lifetime event. I still believe the first album is the most sonicly pleasing rock album ever. Brad in the 70s had simply an astonishing voice. And the layering/mixing for his lead vocals and background vocals was true mastery by Scholz given the equipment he was using. This was Tom's greatest asset, taking others music and making it truely great in the same way that Mutt Lange has done with others we know well.

Based on the strenght of the first album, your correct in that Tom can plug in any comptent musicians and play live to large clubs/small arenas for about as long as he wants to. Its just to bad he wasn't able to follow up the fist two albums with any real music in any real time frame that would have been relavent. By the time 3rd Stage came out in '86, Boston was irrelvent and more importantly the musical land scape has significantly changed, not to mention Tom had pissed off or on every important music industry exec. in the business. And lets face it, 3rd Stage and Walk On can't hold the first ablums jock!

Ive seen Boston play live evertime the've played at multiple venues(~15shows), but decided after Brads tragic death to shut that down and live in what will now be the Boston past.

RussC

Last band I saw wasn't in Boston; it was Boston ...

Thats not Boston thats sacrilege! RIP Brad Delp! BASTARDS!

Boston was originally just Tom Scholz overlaying all the instruments and he brought in Brad Delp to do the vocals. After they snagged a record contract, everyone else was a pick-up player - and that generally remained the case throughout the band's history. Scholz & Delp were the only two constants. Delp's death is tragic, of course, but as long as Scholz can put together a lineup and call it Boston, no one will do it better. Whether you like the result (I am lukewarm, but they still sound very good to my aging ears, which first heard them live in only their second concert outside of New England) or not, it is still the best, and most authentic, Boston-type band in the world ... and that ain't bad, all things considered.

As you grow older, you learn to deal with dead rock stars in all your favorite bands. My generation has been doin' it ever since Brian Jones drowned in 1969 ...

Amen Brother!

[arcangel]

It would be intersting to see who has made more money, and who has more top 40 hits. And actually Morrissey is a fag he admits it!

[citation needed]

HUH?

[m-racer]

hmmm on one hand, you have Morrissey with his admittedly bleak but critically-acclaimed alt-rock and on the other hand, you have trivial, trashy glam/hair-metal that objectifies women, promotes excess in every sense of the word, and has no socially-redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Your comment reminds me of something I saw on one of those crappy "list" shows on VH1 where Vince Neil (I think), was talking about the rise of "grunge," and talked about how he never understood why people would turn away from the money, women, and "fun" that were the focus of the "hair bands" and turn to the depressing material that the newer bands were putting out there.

I mean, "Jeremy" was about a kid being abused. It was a good song, but why was it any better than "Talk dirty to me?"

So far, there isn't much in this post that I wouldn't listen to. Although, Limp Bizkit doesn't come up on my playlist all that often

Besides, you can't go wrong with the namesake of the OP, the Arcangels

Charlie Sexton & Doyle Bramhal Jr. Great voices.

Listen to Doyle Bramhall Sr. and then you will be on to something.

[m-racer]

"Rock and Roll is dead. Too bad you missed it!" The late great Lester Bangs. If you don't know who that is, Google is your friend.

[arcangel]

hmmm on one hand, you have Morrissey with his admittedly bleak but critically-acclaimed alt-rock and on the other hand, you have trivial, trashy glam/hair-metal that objectifies women, promotes excess in every sense of the word, and has no socially-redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Your comment reminds me of something I saw on one of those crappy "list" shows on VH1 where Vince Neil (I think), was talking about the rise of "grunge," and talked about how he never understood why people would turn away from the money, women, and "fun" that were the focus of the "hair bands" and turn to the depressing material that the newer bands were putting out there.

I mean, "Jeremy" was about a kid being abused. It was a good song, but why was it any better than "Talk dirty to me?"

So far, there isn't much in this post that I wouldn't listen to. Although, Limp Bizkit doesn't come up on my playlist all that often

Besides, you can't go wrong with the namesake of the OP, the Arcangels

Charlie Sexton & Doyle Bramhal Jr. Great voices.

Listen to Doyle Bramhall Sr. and then you will be on to something.

I do

[m-racer]

hmmm on one hand, you have Morrissey with his admittedly bleak but critically-acclaimed alt-rock and on the other hand, you have trivial, trashy glam/hair-metal that objectifies women, promotes excess in every sense of the word, and has no socially-redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Your comment reminds me of something I saw on one of those crappy "list" shows on VH1 where Vince Neil (I think), was talking about the rise of "grunge," and talked about how he never understood why people would turn away from the money, women, and "fun" that were the focus of the "hair bands" and turn to the depressing material that the newer bands were putting out there.

I mean, "Jeremy" was about a kid being abused. It was a good song, but why was it any better than "Talk dirty to me?"

So far, there isn't much in this post that I wouldn't listen to. Although, Limp Bizkit doesn't come up on my playlist all that often

Besides, you can't go wrong with the namesake of the OP, the Arcangels

Charlie Sexton & Doyle Bramhal Jr. Great voices.

Listen to Doyle Bramhall Sr. and then you will be on to something.

I do

Excellent. There is hope for the youth of the nation!

[Shawn D.]

Being somewhat of a Boston nut...

OMFG! Russc has ventured outside of the Forced Induction subforum! I gotta tell Drudge about this...

[vance]

Vance

[C.R. Krieger]

Being somewhat of a Boston nut, its interesting that you brought this up.

I can't disagree with a word you said. I am no doubt not quite as big a fan, but Boston has always been a top ten favorite for me; and I had only managed to see them live once, in 1976. So, for the $10 admission to the Washington County Fair a one hour bike ride away, I had to go this one last time.

[Dinan e28]

Ive always liked both Boston and Dokken

But only stuff

[BMWCCA2]

Last band I saw wasn't in Boston; it was Boston ...

What a coincidence! I worked sound for the Boston concert the Innsbrook Pavilion in Richmond, VA, two nights ago. Their Greatest Hits Tour. I was impressed. From Wikipedia:

The debut album, Boston, released in August 1976, was an enormous success. The record still ranks as the best-selling debut album in U.S. history with over 17 million copies sold.

They put on a great show and I'm no Boston fan nor do I own any Boston recordings. Capacity crowd of 7,000 or so outside. For you equipment freaks: Lots of JBLs. Seems the traveling rig provided by Clair Bros. wasn't used because the Clair tech didn't approve of the scaffolding on-site, so they used the local company's JBL Vertec line-arrays, six-or-so to the side, plus center-fills, with about ten dual-18" sub cabinets underneath on each side. Lots of Crown 5200s. Sounded great! So that's what I'm listening to now, since it's still ringing in my ears! Statutory 98dB limit at FOH, exceeded briefly occasionally; 65dB at the property line. According to the local LEOs, the highway traffic was louder than the ordinance's limits at the property line and exceeded the band's level. Their sound guy's comment on the plethora of Tom Scholz's "Rockman" equipment on stage was priceless: "It isn't supposed to sound good, it's supposed to sound like Boston."

That being said, they rocked non-stop for almost two hours without a break, played well, covered the old hits with vocals even a Boston fan might not have criticized too much, and sounded great even to this non-fan. I don't remember ever hearing a B3 as loud as Scholz was playing his. They had a fairly young female bass player who was superb and even sang some lead vocals. All the members in the band and crew were friendly and conversant. At early soundcheck I didn't even know the folks initially playing the instruments were the band members and they mixed freely with the crew with no histrionics or prima-donna attitudes. During the show Scholz wore a shirt that read, "It's OK, I'm with the band." I'm glad I went and I always enjoy a good show. Quite honestly, I was surprised how much I enjoyed this one. And now I've got the "local crew" T-shirt and all-access patch to remember it.

[arcangel]

Last band I saw wasn't in Boston; it was Boston ...

What a coincidence! I worked sound for the Boston concert the Innsbrook Pavilion in Richmond, VA, two nights ago. Their Greatest Hits Tour. I was impressed. From Wikipedia:

The debut album, Boston, released in August 1976, was an enormous success. The record still ranks as the best-selling debut album in U.S. history with over 17 million copies sold.

They put on a great show and I'm no Boston fan nor do I own any Boston recordings. Capacity crowd of 7,000 or so outside. For you equipment freaks: Lots of JBLs. Seems the traveling rig provided by Clair Bros. wasn't used because the Clair tech didn't approve of the scaffolding on-site, so they used the local company's JBL Vertec line-arrays, six-or-so to the side, plus center-fills, with about ten dual-18" sub cabinets underneath on each side. Lots of Crown 5200s. Sounded great! So that's what I'm listening to now, since it's still ringing in my ears! Statutory 98dB limit at FOH, exceeded briefly occasionally; 65dB at the property line. According to the local LEOs, the highway traffic was louder than the ordinance's limits at the property line and exceeded the band's level. Their sound guy's comment on the plethora of Tom Scholz's "Rockman" equipment on stage was priceless: "It isn't supposed to sound good, it's supposed to sound like Boston."

That being said, they rocked non-stop for almost two hours without a break, played well, covered the old hits with vocals even a Boston fan might not have criticized too much, and sounded great even to this non-fan. I don't remember ever hearing a B3 as loud as Scholz was playing his. They had a fairly young female bass player who was superb and even sang some lead vocals. All the members in the band and crew were friendly and conversant. At early soundcheck I didn't even know the folks initially playing the instruments were the band members and they mixed freely with the crew with no histrionics or prima-donna attitudes. During the show Scholz wore a shirt that read, "It's OK, I'm with the band." I'm glad I went and I always enjoy a good show. Quite honestly, I was surprised how much I enjoyed this one. And now I've got the "local crew" T-shirt and all-access patch to remember it.

Can you get me some old Patches....? I collect them. I have a bunch from the old days when thats all you got. Not like now with the laminates. I have back stage passes from the Clash, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and many other. Some are actually mine too. I miss those days, now I have to sit in the front of the house but I still go to atleast one show a month. (no wonder the bmmer isnt getting finished).

[russc]

3rd Stage took 8yrs to be released and the reason had nothing to do with his equipment. Tom sued what was then CBS records, now Sony in a long court battle over "artistic creation". Meaning you cant rush a artistic creation. Tom signed a contract for the first 3 or 4 ablums to be relased every 2 yrs(pretty standard contract back then). He didn't like that so he sued CBS. CBS counter sued. Then the band members sued Tom thinking that somehow they were part of the creative process, go figure! After ~5yrs Tom won against now Sony with the considerable legal talents of Don Engle He settled out of court with the band members for next to nothing as I understand it and never played a lick with Barry, Sib and Fran again. During that time he kept recording but was unable to release anything. This is why no industry exec. would touch Tom for a very long time.

RussC

though, but it obviously wasn't that reliable over the 6 years it took to record Third Stage, which is really 36:37 of the same song.

[russc]

Wow, I feel do special now

RussC

Being somewhat of a Boston nut...

OMFG! Russc has ventured outside of the Forced Induction subforum! I gotta tell Drudge about this...

[wkohler]

3rd Stage took 8yrs to be released and the reason had nothing to do with his equipment. Tom sued what was then CBS records, now Sony in a long court battle over "artistic creation". Meaning you cant rush a artistic creation. Tom signed a contract for the first 3 or 4 ablums to be relased every 2 yrs(pretty standard contract back then). He didn't like that so he sued CBS. CBS counter sued. Then the band members sued Tom thinking that somehow they were part of the creative process, go figure! After ~5yrs Tom won against now Sony with the considerable legal talents of Don Engle He settled out of court with the band members for next to nothing as I understand it and never played a lick with Barry, Sib and Fran again. During that time he kept recording but was unable to release anything. This is why no industry exec. would touch Tom for a very long time.

RussC

though, but it obviously wasn't that reliable over the 6 years it took to record Third Stage, which is really 36:37 of the same song.

That may be, but if you've ever read the liner notes, it took 6 years to do the actual recording, with numerous equipment breakdowns and lots of studio changes.

[C.R. Krieger]

What a coincidence! I worked sound for the Boston concert the Innsbrook Pavilion in Richmond, VA, two nights ago.

That being said, they rocked non-stop for almost two hours without a break, played well, covered the old hits with vocals even a Boston fan might not have criticized too much, and sounded great even to this non-fan. I don't remember ever hearing a B3 as loud as Scholz was playing his.

Painfully agreed. Too loud at West Bend.

They had a fairly young female bass player who was superb and even sang some lead vocals.

Actually, Kimberley Dahme is Tom's wife and an accomplished musician in her own right. My own review from another (music) forum:

Boston and Styx - Washington County Fairground, West Bend, WI, July 26, 2008

Styx opened this set and I saw only about 3/4 of it as I was in no hurry to sit through a set I didn't really care about. What I did hear was very good sound; one of the better mixed live sets I've ever heard. There were a number of pieces I somewhat recognized from hearing them in the '80s and they were well reproduced. "Come Sail Away", Styx' "Stairway To Heaven"/"Free Bird" anthem was as memorable and appealing to me as anything in their catalog, but it left me cold. They are still too close to a Yes-Rush prog rock sound for my taste. Clearly, I am not a Styx fan.

After the bulldozers cleared the way* for Boston, the stage was set with a big 'Boston' logo banner overhanging the rear. Unfortunately, too much wind meant it was taken down before the band appeared. When they did, Tom Scholz began with his unique rendition of "The Star Spangled Banner". A little bit Hendrix, a little bit Boston, and quite enjoyable. But along with the following two numbers, it included a handful of annoying sound 'dropouts'. Oh, God, not this! I'd read some reviews mentioning sound troubles, but after the first ten minutes, they did not recur. Boston played on.

The current lineup includes only Tom Scholz of the original touring band, but this is much like saying 'only Pete Townshend' of The Who. Scholz was Boston before Boston was a band, laying down all the tracks in his basement, with the late Brad Delp doing the vocals. After they got signed for a record deal, they suddenly needed a band to record and tour. I saw that first iteration in 1976, shortly after their first release and although they had a few typical live performance glitches, they were very good. [In checking some facts for this review, I discovered that it was Boston's tenth show, and only the second they ever played outside of New England!] Tom still fronts the band from the left side of the stage. His 6'5" frame topped with a shaggy mop of dark hair belies his age (61) much better than the aforementioned now-bald Who leader. On this tour, he often wears a 'uniform' of khaki shorts that reveal a left knee brace and a black sleeveless T-shirt that reads in large white block letters, "It's OK. I'm with the band." He still has all of those unique Boston licks down. Across the stage is his stunning and remarkably talented 6' blonde wife, Kimberley Dahme on bass and vocals. Sharing that side is lead guitarist Gary Pihl, whose contributions one often expects came from Scholz' amazing bag of electronic tricks - but didn't. On lead vocals and guitar parts is Stryper frontman, Michael Sweet, whose stage experience shows through as he roams the same side as Scholz. Sweet was originally the person expected to try to fill the gaping vocal void left by Brad Delp's suicide last year, but a fortuitous event intervened.

A 43-year-old Home Depot credit manager named Tommy DeCarlo was singing Boston karaoke tracks. Someone sent the Boston office a link to his MySpace page.
[From CNET:] Boston founder Tom Scholz's wife was fiddling around on her PC when something caught her husband's ear.
"My wife was at her computer playing our tunes, and I asked whether it was us playing live," Scholz told USA Today. "She said, 'It's some guy in North Carolina singing your songs.' I said, 'I know Brad's voice, and that's Brad.'"
DeCarlo was invited first to a tribute show for Delp and was then invited on tour. His lack of stage experience shows in not seeming to know exactly what he ought to be doing with his hands (put ... the tambourine ... down) or where he ought to be on the stage, but if you close your eyes, there is an awful lot of Brad Delp's sound there that Sweet isn't able to provide on his own. Even with these two sharing vocals within songs, I noticed there are a few places where only Brad Delp could do the job right. One more 'guy with a day job' took the stage. Drummer Jeff Neal is also a history teacher at a Maine high school, but his talent and passion for the music is clearly up to the task. Boston remains refreshingly free of pointless obligatory drum solos, and Scholz' guitar solos are generally relatively short and feel relevant to the music.

Sadly, the Boston sound setup was poor. While Styx sounded as good as they could be, Boston's sound was overly loud and muddy. The vocals were at first far too low and then, along with the 'dropouts' seemed to be resolved. The only consistently good sound was Dahme's bass. Scholz' organ parts were ear-splitting. Everything else had its good moments, but mostly, it was very difficult to listen to and make sense of it. It was as if they could not get over their past as a 'stadium/arena' rock act and simply play this outdoor venue as it should have been - and as they started out. The Boston sound does not need to be overbearing to be good, and I think they forgot that. It is great to see this band on the road and, if you have never seen Boston, you still have a shot at some New England/NY/NJ shows. As a 'halfway-between-prog-and-rock' alternative, they are well worth seeing.

* My recurring dream for a headliner is to bulldoze the stage to purge the opener's equipment quickly. Didn't happen here, though ...