Thankfully, this ain't the original engine. I dunno how many miles are on this one.winfred wrote:i have a bit of bad news, at 300k you are nearing the end of the life of the 617 motor, they get low compression anywhere from 275-375k miles...
This Is Gonna Bring Me The Love!
A couple of observations, most of the responses were pretty levelheaded, and (almost) nobody seemed to understand you were complaining about how, not what you had to repair.
Just keep in mind the joke about the engineer (or is it a German engineer) commenting that if something still works, it's not complicated enough.
Of course, I think the other way, the best design is the simplest, that can do the job correctly of course.
Just keep in mind the joke about the engineer (or is it a German engineer) commenting that if something still works, it's not complicated enough.
Of course, I think the other way, the best design is the simplest, that can do the job correctly of course.-
grahamular
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
- Location: Baltimore, Maryland
I cheated and read the MB thread before I voted ( 
) but the responses so far appear to be more sympathetic then what I had expected based on your previous editorials on the MB crowd. Although I agree that even with the additional and not-so-subtle prompting on your part, it appears that as a whole they are still missing the main point you're trying to convey. But like any group of people who are passionate/stubborn about something, just because they won't admit it doesn't mean they don't get the point...
) but the responses so far appear to be more sympathetic then what I had expected based on your previous editorials on the MB crowd. Although I agree that even with the additional and not-so-subtle prompting on your part, it appears that as a whole they are still missing the main point you're trying to convey. But like any group of people who are passionate/stubborn about something, just because they won't admit it doesn't mean they don't get the point...By in large, E28s have ruined me for working on other cars. I know the earlier Bugs I cut my teeth on were designed to be simple to work on. But, I suspect that the easy wrenching on E 28s is a lucky accident. Most, if not all,- modern cars are engineered to be rapidly assembled by machines. Repair and maintenance concerns lag waay behind.
I'm of the opinion, that European cars as a rule are made to be able to be repaired, but domestic ones are simply made to be assembled at the factory. Japanese vehicles are somewhere in the middle.Most, if not all,- modern cars are engineered to be rapidly assembled by machines. Repair and maintenance concerns lag waay behind.
My ass. I'm not an apologist or fanboi for cars from any one place, but no way can I go along with that statement.Mike W. wrote:I'm of the opinion, that European cars as a rule are made to be able to be repaired, but domestic ones are simply made to be assembled at the factory. .
You've got it totally backwards. I've owned cars from Europe, Japan, and the United States (with the domestics being 90s vehicles and the Europeans being 80s cars or relics of the 1970s) and without question the domestics are designed most sensibly when it comes to making repairs. And typically the (90s especially) Japanese cars I've worked on have been the worst (save for my dirt-simple '81 Datsun, but that car was pretty much just a tractor with 4 seats)
Most recently, my last domestic was a big, electronics packed FWD sled made in 1995. Compared to what my '88 BMW has been like so far, the Pontiac was a cinch to work on. Hell, I could remove the Pontiac's intake plenum and manifold in the space of time it took me to get my BMW's valve cover off the other day.
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rlomba8204
- Posts: 4869
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
- Location: Washington, DC
Sorry to hear about this Shawn. You've certainly had your fair share of issues. Some of it is bad luck. Some of it is an old car that hasn't been maintained. Some of it is the fact that Mercedes has always been a pain in the ass. That's why I've said it before and I will say it again: the reason the company has gotten bad press lately is not because the cars have changed all that much in terms of reliability -- they always had the unique ability to be a royal pain in the ass -- it's just that the financing demographics have opened up ownership to people who were "raised" on Japanese cars. The basic mechanicals -- engines, transmissions, bodies, etc. are very sound, and if I had to be in a serious accident, I would almost always choose a Benz first, followed closely by BMW.
This is not to excuse the trouble you've had in any way -- you're savvy enough with cars to know the difference between routine age-related stuff and stuff that is a genuine a pain in the rear. But they are great cars in there own way if you can deal with the pain-in-the-ass episodes and you have some good luck. If it is any consolation, the car I learned to drive stick on, my uncle's 1981 240D, also a 123 as you know, is still on the road with about 350k miles on it. Original engine. Second trans (first one was destroyed when the car was briefly stolen.)
But, in fairness, those of us who have been around BMWs will also tell you that these cars can sometimes make you want to drive them off a bridge too. My e23, with which I had a love-hate relationship, was affectionately names "Christine" by my then girlfriend now wife. (If you ever meet her, be sure to ask her about the window regulator episode. LOL.)
All that being said, how many cars, other than a Mercedes or a BMW, are even worth fixing at 300k miles? As I've always said -- to own any of these cars, you must love them.
I am sorry you had a bad experience. Next time, if you sell this one and you want to have another go around, let me know and I will try to use some of the folks I know to put you in touch with a good one. The good ones are really a pleasure to own, long-term.
This is not to excuse the trouble you've had in any way -- you're savvy enough with cars to know the difference between routine age-related stuff and stuff that is a genuine a pain in the rear. But they are great cars in there own way if you can deal with the pain-in-the-ass episodes and you have some good luck. If it is any consolation, the car I learned to drive stick on, my uncle's 1981 240D, also a 123 as you know, is still on the road with about 350k miles on it. Original engine. Second trans (first one was destroyed when the car was briefly stolen.)
But, in fairness, those of us who have been around BMWs will also tell you that these cars can sometimes make you want to drive them off a bridge too. My e23, with which I had a love-hate relationship, was affectionately names "Christine" by my then girlfriend now wife. (If you ever meet her, be sure to ask her about the window regulator episode. LOL.)
All that being said, how many cars, other than a Mercedes or a BMW, are even worth fixing at 300k miles? As I've always said -- to own any of these cars, you must love them.
I am sorry you had a bad experience. Next time, if you sell this one and you want to have another go around, let me know and I will try to use some of the folks I know to put you in touch with a good one. The good ones are really a pleasure to own, long-term.
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Steve in No Va
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
While growing up, my family had 2 new Mercedes. The first was a '77 450 SEL that was my dad's 1st luxury car. It was garaged 80% of its life with us, but had a totally cracked and clouded clearcoat on the the hood, roof and trunk lid within 3 years, that Mercedes wouldn't do anything about, and the transmission died at 75,000. The 2nd Mercedes was a '85 190E. It had a total melt down the week we brought it home from the dealer. They said something about a big nut on the front of the engine getting loose. They did fix that under warranty.
Ironically, they had an '89 Jag sedan that was the most reliable of the European cars they owned.
The special tool thing reminds me of the VWs I've owned. They seem to love the special tools also. My first car was a new 16v Scirocco. Loved the performance, but hated the lack of quality dealer service shops in the area.
My my 535is is, by far, the easiest car to work on that I've owned. My 318ti Sport is more of a pain in the ass to work on, and is 9 years and 150,000 miles newer.
Ironically, they had an '89 Jag sedan that was the most reliable of the European cars they owned.
The special tool thing reminds me of the VWs I've owned. They seem to love the special tools also. My first car was a new 16v Scirocco. Loved the performance, but hated the lack of quality dealer service shops in the area.
My my 535is is, by far, the easiest car to work on that I've owned. My 318ti Sport is more of a pain in the ass to work on, and is 9 years and 150,000 miles newer.
