Crank Pulley Securing Tool?

[ahab]

Your skirt is getting in the way. Get a flat blade screwdriver in there and gently pry around the outer edges. It'll come free, it's just stuck from 30 years of not moving.

[Blue Shadow]

I'd rinse the pan with a some petroleum distillate of some flavor a few times. get it in there collect it as it comes out and go in again. Use a brush if you need to to dislodge and milk shake. Use the oil drain plug or the oil level sender hole as needed to get the bulk of the crud and old oil out with the first half gallon or so of cleaning fluid and then use a fresh batch of fluid for a final couple of rinses. That should get lots of milk shake and detritus out of the oil pan so you can get back to the next unforeseen issue you need to address.

[ncamie]

Your skirt is getting in the way. Get a flat blade screwdriver in there and gently pry around the outer edges. It'll come free, it's just stuck from 30 years of not moving.

Am I prying on the right spot?

[ncamie]

I'd rinse the pan with a some petroleum distillate of some flavor a few times. get it in there collect it as it comes out and go in again. Use a brush if you need to to dislodge and milk shake. Use the oil drain plug or the oil level sender hole as needed to get the bulk of the crud and old oil out with the first half gallon or so of cleaning fluid and then use a fresh batch of fluid for a final couple of rinses. That should get lots of milk shake and detritus out of the oil pan so you can get back to the next unforeseen issue you need to address.

Now if only I could get that stubborn oil level sender out! I'm prying around with my flat scrwdriver at the seam where the flange meets the pan. No loosening observed whatsoever. You'll see in the pic I posted above that I've sprayed the area liberally with penetrant. I'm afraid of prying too hard and pressing a hole into the pan with the shank of the screwdriver or damaging that seal area with the tip.

Grrrrrr!!!!!

[ahab]

Am I prying on the right spot?

Yes. Try a small hammer and tap around the edge. I don't remember them being super stuck but you have the correct nuts off and that whole triangle is the bottom of the sensor. It will come down.

[ncamie]

Okay, shortly I'll try prying and light hammering and let you all know how it goes. In the mean time, I've just realized that in order to remove the crank sprocket I'll have to slip off the oil pump chain as well. It is a very short length of chain by the looks of it and no obvious master link whatsoever. How can I manage that oil pump chain? Is it just a matter of loosening the spring tensioner and using the slack to slip it over the sprocket?

[ahab]

No, unfortunately you may be in a pickle there. You have to loosen the nut on the oil pump sprocket to remove the gear from the splined shaft. I'm not sure there's access for that in the opening of the pan.

[ncamie]

No, unfortunately you may be in a pickle there. You have to loosen the nut on the oil pump sprocket to remove the gear from the splined shaft. I'm not sure there's access for that in the opening of the pan.

Please don't say that!! No way!!! I am to the point where I just want to scream!! &$!#%!!! &$!#%!!! Where does this all end?

Sorry, I am really frustrated with this job. Absolutely nothing is coming easy HA!

Anyway...so am I understanding you correctly that if I want to slip off the oil pump gear that I'll ultimately HAVE TO REMOVE the oil pan? Geez, I didn't want to go there. Guess the silver lining is that I can then "more easily" clean the oil pan and crank gear off all that chocolatey gook. My oh my!

[ahab]

You may want to start looking for a contraption that spans the shock towers and allows you to hang the engine, thus allowing the subframe (and oil pan) to be lowered while the engine remains basically in place. About 20 years ago I built two A frames that stand next to the car with a piece of C channel across the top to hang the engine. Now I just pull the engine and do a complete reseal whenever major work is required. Since then I've seen something that does the same job of suspending the engine from in the engine bay.



That allowed me to do this with the engine in the car. You can see the oil pump nut in this photo. I doubt you'll be able to reach it with the pan in place. Why are you taking the crank sprocket off again?

[ncamie]

Because I'm a nut case. Because I enjoy the punishment. To be honest I bought all the parts before I started the job, that way I'd be prepared for the eventuality that if I HAD TO then I was ready for it. The parts are here, that's the reason I am convincing myself of. Technically speaking I do want to change the timing chain and and so to that end I figure better replace sprockets too. The car probably has well over 300k on the clock and I could see that the ends of all the teeth on the camshaft timing sprocket were point, which compared the slightly flattened teeth on the replacement gives me a sort of impetus to change the bottom sprocket as well no matter what condition it may be in.

I have renounced myself the fact that I will have to get organized with an engine hoist and do the job right. There is a local tool rental place where I can source it (along with the heavy torque wrench for the crank nut tightening). Before I do I'll have to get an oil pan gasket and whatever else so I have that hoist for no more than 24 hours.

Now with that in mind, here we go again...original cork or paper gasket for that oil pan? If I am correct I think there is currently a paper gasket in there now and it has yet to yield a single drop of oil on our drive. Never the less that dealer parts guy emphasized how he'd use nothing else other than cork and how he currently has one ready to sell.

Either way I go whether paper or cork what would you guys recommend as a gasket sealer?

[Mike W.]

Absolutely use a paper oil pan gasket. Is that the same dealer who wanted you to pull the engine to clean the block after a blown head gasket? Permatex #3 Aviation as a sealant. Both sides. Don't even think about using RTV there.

[ncamie]

Okay, last night I ordered up some of that Permatex sealant and a paper oil pan gasket. Told they should be here in a few days. Can I use the sealant everywhere else on the engine, eg. thermostat, water pump, cylinder head and cover gaskets? Is it universal stuff more or less?

The current plan is to get the engine hoist as soon as the gasket stuff comes in, then get in there and out pronto. While I'm in there should I take care of the oil pump? Are there "consumables" to the oil pump? Some way to renovate it? I have been getting oil light flickering at low idle.

And one more thing...Once I am ready to lift the engine with the hoist and remembering the head is off and the block at an angle, can I just attach the hoist's lift chain to one or two cylinder head bolts? I'm assuming I only need to lift an inch or two or three if I can get away with it.

[Mike W.]

Okay, last night I ordered up some of that Permatex sealant and a paper oil pan gasket. Told they should be here in a few days. Can I use the sealant everywhere else on the engine, eg. thermostat, water pump, cylinder head and cover gaskets? Is it universal stuff more or less?

It is more or less universal, and good stuff. I use it many places, especially things with water running thru them, but not on the head gasket, that installs dry.

The current plan is to get the engine hoist as soon as the gasket stuff comes in, then get in there and out pronto. While I'm in there should I take care of the oil pump? Are there "consumables" to the oil pump? Some way to renovate it? I have been getting oil light flickering at low idle.

Ooo, not great. New pumps have had variable availability in recent years and are expensive. A few have replaced just the gears, I think with good results although it wouldn't be the same as a whole new pump. I think they're still available, but there might be a wait to get them. Research beforehand. Something else I've heard of is the timing chain guide can deteriorate and get sucked up into the oil pump pickup, restricting the flow there. But you want in and out quick and only way to find out is once the pump is out or the pan is off at least.

And one more thing...Once I am ready to lift the engine with the hoist and remembering the head is off and the block at an angle, can I just attach the hoist's lift chain to one or two cylinder head bolts? I'm assuming I only need to lift an inch or two or three if I can get away with it.

No, I think you might bend them. You could use the holes with a shorter ~1.5" bolt, but not the long headbolts. Just use the factory lifting bracket.

[ncamie]

I’ll take another look for that factory lifting bracket, but I could’ve sworn that it came off when I removed the cylinder head. I might be wrong there.

On the matter of the cylinder head bolts, I’ve got an entire replacement set at the beginning of this job and I expect I’ll be using them for the reinstall. With that said l, I think I jumped the gun a little bit on that purchase because I was later told that it’s OK to reuse the old head bolts on this particular engine. They are not the one-time-use stretchy type.

[Mike W.]

It is entirely possible the lifting bracket along with the water pump under it was removed when you pulled the head. You are correct the head bolts are entirely reusable also, I've probably done a dozen heads and never replaced a head bolt. I'm sure it's ok, but I'd still be cautious about putting that much stress at an angle, on the block. It's a nice long lever on there. I'm probably being way overcautious in my recommendations, but I'd do it somewhere else or use a short bolt into the head, not a long headbolt that levers against the hole.

[ncamie]

Sorry to not give too many details for this update; I'm extremely short on time. I have a question though. Is there any kind of trick or "easy" way to remove and eventually replace those two 10mm bolts at the furthest back end of the engine oil pan? These two are partially blocked by what looks to be the flywheel. So much so that I can't get my 3/8ths drive socket and ratchet in there. Looks like a double doozie! Thanks in advance!

[Mike W.]

I've rebuilt a number of M30 engines and a bunch of heads, but never a pan gasket in place.

1/4" drive with a wobble or universal?