Ah, I see... Thanks for the clarification =)Mike W. wrote:No, E3/12 use a single control arm with a strut rod, E23/28 use two control arms. E23/28 are very similar in concept, different in execution. E23s use a control arm in tension and E28s use it in compression. Same principal though, while both joints rotate, the actual axis point is somewhere in between. Took me a while looking at it to see how it worked and why. Harder to explain.duggi wrote:I thought the e23 suspension and steering was based on that of the e3 and e12...wouldn't that be a step backwards?Kenny Blankenship wrote:1. Later E23 type suspension (that would reduce the shimmy issue).
Personally, yes the shimmy is annoying, but I just tell myself, "that's a supercar suspension (M1) under there, so that's cool" and try to let my mind move on.
E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Cup holders. More cup holders.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
How many times do I have to tell you, just hold the beer between your legs.oldskool wrote:Cup holders. More cup holders.
Pro tip, cans are lower profile than bottles and look like soda until you lift it up.Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Rack and pinion.
Dogleg 5 speed being standard equipment in the bigger motor cars.
Interchangeable front valances from Euro-US market cars.
Tilt wheeeeeel.
Dogleg 5 speed being standard equipment in the bigger motor cars.
Interchangeable front valances from Euro-US market cars.
Tilt wheeeeeel.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Should have stayed with the E-12 rear suspension. An otherwise decent radio for the era.but no balance?
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Why the E12 rear suspension? The sway bar?a wrote:Should have stayed with the E-12 rear suspension. An otherwise decent radio for the era.but no balance?
The radio should have balance. All of my stock ones did. Hidden in the menu with the bass/treble.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
I like the steering box. Nice to drive a car and not die if you have to sneeze.Nesset wrote:Rack and pinion.
Dogleg 5 speed being standard equipment in the bigger motor cars.
Interchangeable front valances from Euro-US market cars.
Tilt wheeeeeel.
The dogleg isn't as great as people seem to believe.
Valances are interchangeable.
No reason for a tilt wheel.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
To add to the those already listed:
Taillights with replaceable lenses
Retain the e12 inside door latch. It was a big downgrade to go to the fragile ones that put you in an akward position in order to open the door from the inside.
Design the door panels to incorporate hidden pockets like in the e24s / 6 series. Nice place to keep tire pressure tool, pens, etc.
Better headliner material / glue or whatever so that EVERY e28 doesn't get the brown stains on the C pillar.
Trunk lights with a switch so you can turn off the light and leave the trunk open.
Bright work trim that when new doesn't start hazing after the first rain and within a year looks like the 30 year old trim you took off.
Metal trim around the front and rear glass like on the e23/e24.
An easier to install windshield lock trim system.
Use the e23/e24 hood latch system. The e28 system is a piece of crap.
Relocate the oil filter so it is easier to change.
Has anyone mentioned better HVAC?
Made twice the number of replacement parts to keep us all going for at least 3 more decades.
Taillights with replaceable lenses
Retain the e12 inside door latch. It was a big downgrade to go to the fragile ones that put you in an akward position in order to open the door from the inside.
Design the door panels to incorporate hidden pockets like in the e24s / 6 series. Nice place to keep tire pressure tool, pens, etc.
Better headliner material / glue or whatever so that EVERY e28 doesn't get the brown stains on the C pillar.
Trunk lights with a switch so you can turn off the light and leave the trunk open.
Bright work trim that when new doesn't start hazing after the first rain and within a year looks like the 30 year old trim you took off.
Metal trim around the front and rear glass like on the e23/e24.
An easier to install windshield lock trim system.
Use the e23/e24 hood latch system. The e28 system is a piece of crap.
Relocate the oil filter so it is easier to change.
Has anyone mentioned better HVAC?
Made twice the number of replacement parts to keep us all going for at least 3 more decades.
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Kenny Blankenship
- Posts: 4942
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
- Location: NNV
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
It's a trade-off. The E12 has a better ride and absorbs bumps better (the rear end squat is cute), but the E28 rear end has more control with the dogbones and different geometry. Having driven E23s both with and without dogbones I prefer without for ride and with for handling. I only don't like the E28 rear suspension because of the weak sway bar mounts.a wrote:Should have stayed with the E-12 rear suspension.
Last edited by Kenny Blankenship on Sep 05, 2016 2:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Sway bar mounts would be the direction I'd go. Not sure if an e12-style bar installation would be possible.Kenny Blankenship wrote:It's a trade-off. The E12 has a better ride and absorbs bumps better, but the E28 rear end has more control with the dogbones and different geometry. I only don't like the E28 rear suspension because of the weak sway bar mounts.a wrote:Should have stayed with the E-12 rear suspension.
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Das_Prachtstrasse
- Posts: 5616
- Joined: Sep 10, 2006
- Location: Melbourne, Doooown Under
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
A less venerable front floorpan that couldn't be confused for jacking points by every previous owner and workshop would've been great.. Speaking of jacking, the factory jack blows phallus. A good old scissor jack would have been fine, thanks. A hinged tire iron with a handle that could be unfolded to double leverage would've been a great idea too. Oh wait, Mercedes Benz did it and it's fucking excellent.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
All the above + a cupholder of any sort
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
NEED MOR HEADROOM. I feel like I either drive with my seat against the rear seat or I'm sitting with my head cocked sideways because I prefer to sit halfway straight. It works when I vent the sunroof but if its raining i might as well be laying down. (I'm 6'3" so what is your secret)
Better HVAC (because that clearly hasn't been said before)
Get rid of the oil change lights (ill just look at an odometer)
The area around the windshield that rusts and subsequently the accelerator pedal mount rusting.
The rear lights being wired differently so the check light doesn't blink all the time.
Different dash material so not prone to cracks.
Better HVAC (because that clearly hasn't been said before)
Get rid of the oil change lights (ill just look at an odometer)
The area around the windshield that rusts and subsequently the accelerator pedal mount rusting.
The rear lights being wired differently so the check light doesn't blink all the time.
Different dash material so not prone to cracks.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
I should have clarified the valance deal. More EASILY interchangeable is what I should have said.wkohler wrote:I like the steering box. Nice to drive a car and not die if you have to sneeze.Nesset wrote:Rack and pinion.
Dogleg 5 speed being standard equipment in the bigger motor cars.
Interchangeable front valances from Euro-US market cars.
Tilt wheeeeeel.
The dogleg isn't as great as people seem to believe.
Valances are interchangeable.
No reason for a tilt wheel.
I like my tilt wheel because I'm 6'7 and it's tricky to drive cars being my height. (last I checked... I stopped keeping track)
Rack and pinion is nice, but I come from the land of 2002's and I like to feel every little bump and crack in the road.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Get some Dzus nuts and your valance can be quick-change.Nesset wrote: I should have clarified the valance deal. More EASILY interchangeable is what I should have said.
Rack and pinion is nice, but I come from the land of 2002's and I like to feel every little bump and crack in the road.
02s have steering gear boxes.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
If I didn't know any better, with all these complaints, I'd think almost none of you guys even like e28's. 
The design 'flaws' are what make the car what it is. As is, a 535i is drop dead reliable and relatively simple in terms of electronics. It serves as a great daily vehicle because it has a good heater, has great visibility, has excellent seats (sports),has good performance capability, is comfortable over bumps, fair on gasoline usage, and has good utility with trunk space and seating for 5. Nothing can be designed perfectly and last 30+ years. I have just found that some newer cars have many worse problems, most of them related to drivetrain and reliability issues-- something the E28's didn't have a problem with.
I don't mind the cracked dash, lack of cup holders, or weak subframe mounts. You guys suggesting widening the track, totally changing the suspension design, a different HVAC system, battery relocation or some of these other fixes would dramatically change the car from what it is.
The design 'flaws' are what make the car what it is. As is, a 535i is drop dead reliable and relatively simple in terms of electronics. It serves as a great daily vehicle because it has a good heater, has great visibility, has excellent seats (sports),has good performance capability, is comfortable over bumps, fair on gasoline usage, and has good utility with trunk space and seating for 5. Nothing can be designed perfectly and last 30+ years. I have just found that some newer cars have many worse problems, most of them related to drivetrain and reliability issues-- something the E28's didn't have a problem with.
I don't mind the cracked dash, lack of cup holders, or weak subframe mounts. You guys suggesting widening the track, totally changing the suspension design, a different HVAC system, battery relocation or some of these other fixes would dramatically change the car from what it is.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
I wish the designers had anticipated my eventual use of the car and provide space for a minimum of a 275 rear tire with proper camber. 
That or provisions for AWD.
That or provisions for AWD.Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
Dynamic negative camber would be the tits.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
You do seem to have one hell of a point....tschultz wrote:If I didn't know any better, with all these complaints, I'd think almost none of you guys even like e28's.
The design 'flaws' are what make the car what it is. As is, a 535i is drop dead reliable and relatively simple in terms of electronics. It serves as a great daily vehicle because it has a good heater, has great visibility, has excellent seats (sports),has good performance capability, is comfortable over bumps, fair on gasoline usage, and has good utility with trunk space and seating for 5. Nothing can be designed perfectly and last 30+ years. I have just found that some newer cars have many worse problems, most of them related to drivetrain and reliability issues-- something the E28's didn't have a problem with.
I don't mind the cracked dash, lack of cup holders, or weak subframe mounts. You guys suggesting widening the track, totally changing the suspension design, a different HVAC system, battery relocation or some of these other fixes would dramatically change the car from what it is.
Re: E28 design, what would you have done differently?
I've been trying to come up with the flaw worthy of posting here, but I finally realized, if those flaws didn't exist, I wouldn't have had the chance to learn all I've learned in the past 3 years.
So they can't be flaws, from my perspective.
So they can't be flaws, from my perspective.