M30B34 Valve adjustment clarifications

[tn535i]

Readjusted today. Per the bentley to the letter. Runs fine, idles perfect, and generally feels and sounds better. Then again if it didnt, whats the point eh. But I think I am going to go through all of the rockers, eccentrics, and valves and see how many could use replacing. not a full rebuild, just a refurbish. There are some rockers that have worn through the pad and are starting to make contact on the body of the rocker. A couple cams with grooves in em too. A few eccentrics were oddly off-round.

Also, quick question. Will the Bosch SR95X starter fit a B34? Or is it for B35 only?

What ^^^ said about rocker pads. If in your case several are worn are they concave in the contact patch instead of convex. If your cam shows signs of wear and any rockers also you really should replace it all. Alternative is to just keep and eye on it and use a quality oil.

How many miles on this motor and any intel on the oil it's been running. Many will say that running too thin and low zinc oil for too long intervals will wipe the cams in these cars. In other words the local quickie oil change and longer service interval is very bad over the long run. If it had been treated with a low zinc 5w-30 called out in most newer cars of the past 10 years for example.

[BRRV]

...If your cam shows signs of wear and any rockers also you really should replace it all. Alternative is to just keep and eye on it and use a quality oil...
...Many will say that running too thin and low zinc oil for too long intervals will wipe the cams in these cars. In other words the local quickie oil change and longer service interval is very bad over the long run. If it had been treated with a low zinc 5w-30 called out in most newer cars of the past 10 years for example.

This. Getting a lower mileage used head would be cheap(er) than going to the hassle of rebuilding one of these heads. Just getting the cam out without issue can be tough. And the right oil can make all the difference. I am not turning this into an oil thread. Do a search and see what varieties of oil are universally acknowledged as the benchmarks for these engines.

[trevmmeister]

I appreciate the replies guys. Yeah I may have misworded the part about the cams contacting the rocker body. It wasnt to give the impression that the rockers are ten miles from destroyed, but more along the lines of "Very good at telling you how old they are."

After a quick self-study lesson on concave and convex, I would say that the rockers that are worn(only about three or four) are concave near the rocker-shaft side of the cam-contact pad. Would a B35 head fit a B34 without modification or troubles? I would also need to learn how to sync the timings...

Also regarding the oil, from what the lady told us a decade ago when we bought it, her late husband always took great care of the car when it ran. It wasnt until he got sick that parts on the car began to deteriorate. So for the majority of it's 240000, it was well oiled and cared for. Since we have owned it, we have always put full synthetic high mileage 10W-30 every 6000.

Also, fwiw, I torqued down the Banjo bolts yesterday to spec(90 ft-lbs +/- 9), and the head seemed to be a little bit quieter afterwards, along with 0.012 @ valves, and I checked back over with 0.010 @ the cams and everything was bueno.

[waynet1]

Since we have owned it, we have always put full synthetic high mileage 10W-30 every 6000.

Believe it or not, I'm at a complete lack for words.

[trevmmeister]

Since we have owned it, we have always put full synthetic high mileage 10W-30 every 6000.

Believe it or not, I'm at a complete lack for words.

Why do I get a passive aggresive vibe off of this.

[Kyle in NO]

Your choice in oil is probably what wore your camshaft out. Have you ever read the owner's manual?

[demetk]

Since we have owned it, we have always put full synthetic high mileage 10W-30 every 6000.

Believe it or not, I'm at a complete lack for words.

Why do I get a passive aggresive vibe off of this.

You can get vibes from the internet?

[trevmmeister]

Is 10W-30 not heavy enough for a B34?

[BRRV]

Is 10W-30 not heavy enough for a B34?

In a word, no.

Now, I suppose someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong, but the fact remains that it generally isn't a suggested weight for an M30 anything. These are not "modern" engines, and as such don't benefit from lighter weight oils designed for tighter tolerance, lower friction engines that were developed beginning in the early 90s. They need more robust weight oil - 40W as a minimum, one that will shear out of grade less than others (read this as synthetic). Now, please let us not turn this into an oil thread (2nd request). Some folks use 20W50 Valvoline because the 50W will shear-down to about a low 40W in the bearings, and that does the trick. Anything less than that and you wind up with too little sacrificial barrier to protect metal at operating temp. Mobil, in it's Mobil 1 line, recommends for the M30B34/35 10W40. Redline also recommends their 40W synthetic oils for this engine. No one to my knowledge recommends a 30W oil; 30W oils will generally shear to the next lower weight at operating temperature. While a 20W will work for a newer generation Honda or a Ford Escort, it will not provide enough protection for an M30. Others may disagree, but I have 300K miles on an original motor that says otherwise, and I've never used anything less than a 40W multi-grade oil. Lastly, when in doubt, read the owners manual, or the Bentley - there's a chart that is handy and shows various oil weights and temps. Remember that with modern synthetic or hydro-cracked oils, ambient temperature ratings for motor oil become less important, and weight at operating temperature becomes more so.

Before I get myself into any more trouble, do a search and read up on all of the oils that are recommended for the M30, and why. And then go buy some, after you swap that head.

[ahab]

^^ Agreed. Also have driven to over 300k. On more than one.

[trevmmeister]

well hell, if I can find a B35 head then I will definitely put it on. itd take some time though to save up. would replacing my current oil(about 1500 miles on it) with higher weight oil as soon as possible be a good idea?

[BRRV]

well hell, if I can find a B35 head then I will definitely put it on. itd take some time though to save up. would replacing my current oil(about 1500 miles on it) with higher weight oil as soon as possible be a good idea?

Is the car running? Do you drive it? Then, yes. Any good quality 10W40 or 20W50 oil for now. 10W40 would certainly work year round unless you live in the extreme north.

And, I'm almost certain that a later head from an M30B35 is not a good option; if memory serves, a B35 head will lower compression on an M30B34 engine (someone else can chime in if I'm wrong or if my memory is faulty). If you want a B35 head, go buy an M30B35 engine and do a swap. At least that's what I'd do with a higher mileage engine.

[ahab]

And, I'm almost certain that a later head from an M30B35 is not a good option; if memory serves, a B35 head will lower compression on an M30B34 engine (someone else can chime in if I'm wrong or if my memory is faulty). If you want a B35 head, go buy an M30B35 engine and do a swap. At least that's what I'd do with a higher mileage engine.

Yep, the B35 head will give you a better cam and larger intake valves (as well as manifold), however the drop in compression will negate any gains. Compression trumps just about any other mod.

[trevmmeister]

well hell, if I can find a B35 head then I will definitely put it on. itd take some time though to save up. would replacing my current oil(about 1500 miles on it) with higher weight oil as soon as possible be a good idea?

Is the car running? Do you drive it? Then, yes. Any good quality 10W40 or 20W50 oil for now. 10W40 would certainly work year round unless you live in the extreme north.

And, I'm almost certain that a later head from an M30B35 is not a good option; if memory serves, a B35 head will lower compression on an M30B34 engine (someone else can chime in if I'm wrong or if my memory is faulty). If you want a B35 head, go buy an M30B35 engine and do a swap. At least that's what I'd do with a higher mileage engine.

Yeah she is my daily driver. Haven't been driving as much lately due to my guibo, but it gets here in a couple days and then I will be back to driving it hard. Will def look into picking up some 20W50 soon.

[dsmith]

Get summa this:
http://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-VV211-6 ... racing+oil

Or this:
http://www.penngrade1.com/products/High ... 20W50.aspx

[trevmmeister]

yeah Ill get some valvoline, but uhh... BRRV, it happened.

Also about the head. I only found two for sale for B34, one was fully rebuilt and pressure tested by Metric Mechanic, the other was a performance B34 specific head with neato valve and cam upgrades by BimmerHeads for $1,750. the other one was two years ago on a dead thread on some forum out there, dunno if it still exists.

someone may ask why I was looking at rebuilt new ones and not used ones? ...I couldnt find any used ones. So would it be a wise investment to go for the expensive rebuilt, yet very reliable performance one; or keep looking until I find a nice used one?

[ahab]

someone may ask why I was looking at rebuilt new ones and not used ones? ...I couldnt find any used ones. So would it be a wise investment to go for the expensive rebuilt, yet very reliable performance one; or keep looking until I find a nice used one?

Only you can answer that. What are your long term plans for the car? As someone mentioned, you can do a motor swap for a lot cheaper than the cost of a rebuilt head in most instances.

[waynet1]

...I couldnt find any used ones.

You're not really looking then.
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=121575

[BRRV]

I may be odd-man out here (not unusual, I guess), but I wouldn't buy a "rebuilt" M30 head, unless the people who did it are acknowledged by this board as being completely reliable, and know what they are doing. Otherwise, I'd only buy such a head from BMW itself (which is what I did, by the way).

M30 heads are generally considered to be difficult to properly rebuild. Some may scoff at that, but I'll stand by that statement. I've heard all kinds of horror stories about heads that were "rebuilt" (even from so-called "BMW experts") and then fail prematurely. Unless you pony up the money for a genuine BMW rebuild (still available, last time I checked, but getting more and more expensive) I'd find a good quality used head, and maybe have it checked by a shop you trust, at least in terms of straightness, etc.

And by the way, this warning about rebuilding stuff applies to complete engines, as well. This is my personal opinion and others may have a different opinion.

[trevmmeister]

I found a couple B35's for sale, and for alot cheaper than that performance head. But I dont know, after following Charlie's thread from start to finish, im not sure that I am quite ready for that.

I had the idea a few months ago to rebuild my engine, but was rebuked. My long term plans for the car are to one day have it running flawlessly, and serve as my DD. that was the basis for my reasoning behind a rebuild. But hey who knows, maybe it is the perfect move to make, replace a 230k B34 with a less than 150k B35, seems like a great idea. But it might be something I need to wait until I am out of college with a good job before I can drop the kind of money I want to into this car.

[ahab]

replace a 230k B34 with a less than 150k B35, seems like a great idea.

Bingo. 36hp bump, more than you'll likely get from a "performance head" on a stock B34. I wouldn't use cek's thread as any kind of barometer. A used B35 with a 179 ECU and a supereta harness is pretty much a straight drop in and a day's work. Lengthen a couple wires and change the gooseneck at the back of the head on the way in and you're ready to drive it.

[dsmith]

Has any qualified person verified that your valvetrain has an issue? I don't even see a pic in this thread.

My advise is to change the oil, finish school, get a job and then buy a better car. Chances are that the engine will last just fine for the purpose. If it grenades, BFD. Put in a used motor or scrap it.

[tn535i]

Yes this ^^^. If the cams and rockers are just showing some wears marks but don't have any deep grooving it will still run fine and maybe for a very long time. If you can run your fingernail across the lobe an just barely feel the grooves at the tip of the lob it's not that bad yet. Put in a 20w-50 oil with high ZDDP and keep going. At the point you can no longer adjust the valve lash to spec and the rockers start making excessive noise I would be concerned. At this point you would probably see deep grooves in the cam and the rocker pads worn clear out to the edges. When it gets to this condition some form of breakage is imminent. Then you put in a new motor.

Here is a cam worn well beyond useful life.


And the rocker where you can see the extreme wave in the wear clear to the edge.


This was in an M20i and running fine but noisy at idle almost like a diesel.

[tig]

This was in an M20i and running fine but noisy at idle almost like a diesel.

Sounds like Maytag. Heh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky_QhOxufDY

[BRRV]

As mentioned, you'll know when this happens. It's caused by lack of lubrication. The oil sprayer banjo bolts loosen and you wind up with little to no lubrication on the cam. The spring pressures on the valve train quickly wear the cam without a sacrificial oil barrier with anti-wear properties.

Also, you won't be able to get the valve train quiet. And the visible damage to the cam journal will be obvious, as shown in the pictures. At some point you'll lose compression in that cylinder since you'll be unable to really get the clearance right. Or at least I did. I replaced an original head at around 200K due to the previous owners' negligence, and I had visible damage that was extreme, as well as low compression in that (and one other) cylinder.

If you don't have damage like that shown in the photos, then I wouldn't worry about it. Use 20W50 in the summertime and 10W40 in the wintertime (BMW does recommend seasonal changes of oil for this car) and keep the banjo bolts secured and the valves adjusted (every 10K is good if you have the time!). Unless you are below the Mason-Dixon line, I wouldn't use 20W50 year round. You could use Mobil 1 15W50 year round, or at least to about 5 degrees or so. Not the best choice for deep winter temps, but acceptable if a year-round 50W is desired. Cold starts are where most engine wear happens, and it's here that you need protection, even more so than at operating temp (although any oil that shears below a 40W viscosity is not a good idea in high ambient temps on a fully warmed engine).

[trevmmeister]

You know what makes me sad? I1 and I2's cam lobes look just about like the one in the picture. when I did my second adjustment to spec, I forgot to take pics. sorry but they are both pretty much like that. and the rockers are nowhere near like that. just a teeny weeny bit of wear. Idk, so many problems/solutions, so little money.

I live in central georgia where summer is hot and winter can be anywhere from chilly to shrively balls freezing. 15w50 sounds like what I need.

at the moment I would say I like dsmiths post. If it dies, replace it, until then, run the right oil. sounds about right. I mean, despite the worn cam lobes and rockers, the engine runs like a champ. it just ticks (I have said that before, but to clarify, its not JUST the sewing machine tick, its also a couple occasional "click" ticks, from the worn rockers, but I can get over that.)

[BRRV]

You know what makes me sad? I1 and I2's cam lobes look just about like the one in the picture. when I did my second adjustment to spec, I forgot to take pics. sorry but they are both pretty much like that. and the rockers are nowhere near like that. just a teeny weeny bit of wear. Idk, so many problems/solutions, so little money.

I live in central georgia where summer is hot and winter can be anywhere from chilly to shrively balls freezing. 15w50 sounds like what I need.

I drove on a head like that for almost 3 years, I'm sorry to say. It can be done; it will be noisy, and power will be down somewhat (loss of compression, ). Might get some minor fouling on the affected plug. Just keep 'em adjusted as best you can, use a quality oil, look for a used head, and change it out. Plenty of them around. It's a weekend repair, and if you have a buddy who can help, even better. And when you put the replacement head on, change the banjo bolts and the crush washers. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being extremely difficult and 1 being no problem at all, I'd give this a 5, if you have help, 6 if you don't.

The sound you describe (the valve ticking) was the first give-away to me that I had a problem, after I bought the car. The first mechanic I took it to said "they all do that". Not true. The second one said, I can get rid of the noise, but it won't be right, and we did - and damage got worse. I knew, with a SOHC engine, that the noise wasn't correct, so I began adjusting the valves myself, a long time ago! It was then that I found the lobe damage and knew we had a problem, and also discovered the oil sprayer bar problem, which no one had really even mentioned (mechanics...). So I've been there, and this is by no means insurmountable. And yes, you can drive it, being careful with it, and it'll probably be serviceable. Just don't tighten things up to try to get rid of the noise.

[trevmmeister]

One question that I will probably find the answer to when the time comes, but preliminarily; how to you sync the timing between the engine and head if I replace the head? set the engine to TDC and the cam to.... IIRC start on firing position 5?

[tn535i]

There are marks on each and you set them both to be aligned with everything in place. Easy enough and folks here can probably give you more detailed advice than Bentley.

And you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS rotate 2-3 complete turns of the cam with a wrench on the crank to confirm before you use a starter to twist it.

[trevmmeister]

And you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS rotate 2-3 complete turns of the cam with a wrench on the crank to confirm before you use a starter to twist it.

Duly noted.

I wonder... On the cam lobes that are getting a little worn in, would it be possible to adjust those tighter than the rockers and cams that are showing little to no wear? Say, spec on good ones, .009 on worn ones? Would that cause a "lope" or would it sync up the worn ones with good ones?

Edit; I thought about it again for a sec.. wouldnt adjusting spec on the valves automatically compensate..?