EAG 1988 M5 selling at 31k

Buy, sell or trade whole vehicles.
Mark in Toronto
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Post by Mark in Toronto »

GaAlpinaOwner wrote:
wkohler wrote:You might be talking about different cars but I am not. There was just a thread on r3v about them. Either way doesn't change the fact that EAG is nothing more than a high margin used car dealer.
that is a little harsh Chris they are a high margin used car dealer correct but I think more.... They add value that no other used car dealer offers in several ways. Sure they charge a premium but I know a car from them will be maintained and reconditioned where appropriate and they offer a nice buy back service if you maintain. They also will make selling a car pretty much painless w/o all the BS that a typical buyer has. I have bought and traded a few cars from them. The cars I have been interested in/ bought have all been as close to perfect as one can get. They go into great detail to make sure a online /phone purchased car is completely marketed w/o any surprises unlike any other dealer period end. Until they give me reason to be negative or to bash, you and everyone else will only hear positive things from my experiences with them. Yes if you are looking for the best deal, EAG is not who you need to be talking to....but remember they get the best, lowest mileage cars, almost everything else with any other dealer is a crap shoot.
gray635 wrote:I agree completely with David/GaAlpinaOwner on this point. EAG buys and sells the cream of the crop to a certain type of BMW buyer. They provide a useful and valuable service, in my opinion. Their success appears to me to be ample evidence of this fact. I have never bought a car from EAG but I did sell them my 57K 1990 E30 M3 and 1984 Alpina B9. Both easy, painless and very fair transactions. Pricing was agreed to over the telephone, after I sent some photos and talked with Eric Keller, funds wire transferred the next day and the transport showed up that afternoon. No worries. No hassles.

I'm sure they made a few bucks on both my cars but, in my opinion, they earned their money. I'm having a difficult time understanding why they are being criticized by some folks for doing business in this fashion.
Both Mike and David's comments are spot on and highlight the advantages/value of dealing with a premium dealer such as EAG. I've dealt with a similar dealer here in Toronto.
///Mflossin
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Post by ///Mflossin »

I suppose a bunch of people can talk or argue over what EAG's philosophy is but it really comes down to this....they are nothing more than "flippers." These cars would sell at a far more reasonable price to loving owners in the community but are pecked out of the hands of enthusiasts only to be outrageously jacked up.

Now...does that make the world a better place? That's for every individual to decide on their own but I can tell you one thing....I wouldn't buy a car from EAG. I'd rather wait the time it takes to find one at an honest price. My opinion and my perogative only but that's how I see it.

With that said....EAG is a business and they are in business to make money, right...wrong or indifferent and who am I to judge?
BimmerSultan
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Post by BimmerSultan »

Their ad states it needs quite a few things to make it like new, but they will happily put together a quote if you choose.
ahab
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Post by ahab »

GaAlpinaOwner wrote:...They add value that no other used car dealer offers in several ways. Sure they charge a premium but I know a car from them will be maintained and reconditioned where appropriate and they offer a nice buy back service if you maintain.
I think Chris's point "Two different types of tires on the car and two of them are still Nexens. WTF? Looks like the only thing they did was replace the Roundel on the left front wheel", and Moosehead's comment about the E30 "They didn't even clean the cosmoline off the valve cover :? " is the part of perception problem they're having with some people. This doesn't make them thieves, disreputable, or dishonest, but by dramatically inflating the price the way they do it does implicate them as a group who look to cater to a specific subset of the general population only. It's a free country and they can do what they choose with these cars. I feel fortunate that I would not require their services in order to ensure the purchase of a great car that has been cared about, well maintained, and will hold its value in the coming years. For me, the story behind an acquisition adds a level of interest to a car, and what helps separate one from the next. Some people enjoy hunting, other people prefer to buy mounted trophies for their libraries. Everything has its cost. If you're in a position that their service and the "provenance" they offer has value to you, terrific, that's why they exist. Just don't forget your wallet. At the same time they will hopefully drag the price for these cars up with them as a service to the rest of the population, paid for by those that do business with them. More power to all of them.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

If they truly offered no questions asked top tier cars that need nothing and have been completely gone through then fine. The sky is the limit then. The M5 highlighted here proves that's not the case. It's like the Avus '92 M5 touring. $19k was the asking price. They swoop in and buy it before it ever hit BaT and right after it shows up, its $45k claiming to have had 10-15k in service performed by them. I just did an oil change on my M535i. I will tell the buyer that I just performed a $6,000 service and maybe even have a receipt for it.
RAL
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Post by RAL »

wkohler wrote:If they truly offered no questions asked top tier cars that need nothing and have been completely gone through then fine. The sky is the limit then. The M5 highlighted here proves that's not the case. It's like the Avus '92 M5 touring. $19k was the asking price. They swoop in and buy it before it ever hit BaT and right after it shows up, its $45k claiming to have had 10-15k in service performed by them. I just did an oil change on my M535i. I will tell the buyer that I just performed a $6,000 service and maybe even have a receipt for it.
Fwiw, this is where they lost me as well. As Warren Buffett tells people, it takes decades to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it, and people thought more about that they would do things differently. The story with the M5 touring, as well as a couple of others, are what changed my perception, not the dealership's ability to command premium prices. That latter factor is a market driven dynamic that is between the buyer and the seller and not appropriate to judge them negatively on.
GaAlpinaOwner
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Post by GaAlpinaOwner »

Look I respect many of you and your opinions and I am not going to grandstand this anymore ....All I can say is the cars I have bought had full disclosure and I was happy with the transaction....I am sure in every single instance there may be some variation to this theme. They have nothing but up front and honest with me. I just think EAG gets a bad rap from some/many Enthusiast/others mainly because the prices are set at a premium on certain cars....and some/many Enthusiast apparently must get a fair and reasonable deal....otherwise we feel we were jipped :bawl:
three5ives
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Post by three5ives »

Regarding wkohler's previous reference to the north carolina e30s. For those not familiar - these cars were listed on R3V -the posting referenced a craigslist ad for details. Both were offered by the same seller. I communicated to the seller hours after the posting that I could make a no constraints, full price - immediate purchase on the red e30 which was listed for $12K (the black one was listed for $13K). I was sure to communicate that I was a private buyer. He responded that he though he had a buyer and would get back to me. The R3V listing was updated hours later to sold.

I saw the 'arriving soon' update for the black one on EAG. I emailed the seller and asked if both went to EAG - he confirmed that they did.

These cars are now offered at $27K and $30K. I'm sure some reconditioning was done - but to what extent is unknown. While I generally agree with those that find value in the service that EAG provides - they do seem to be exploring the limits of what the e30 market will bear - which is simply a business decision they're entitled too. However, I'm curious to understand from those that have purchased from EAG in the past - if they had been interested in one of these particular cars - would they still have the same willingness to purchase given the new EAG price?

The R3V thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthr ... t=pristine
GregCT
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Post by GregCT »

I understand the reasons the e30 M3s are climbing in value; they had relatively low production, were homologated for racing with tons of success. Nice ones now go for above original MSRP, in some cases way above. Regular 325is cars have none of this history. They are fun cars to drive, I actually had a nice one 10 years ago, but thirty thousand dollars?? Can you say bubble?

EAG is doing the same thing Victory Motors in Houston has been doing with air cooled Porsches for years, they monitor all of the forums and classifieds and pounce when they find a nice low mileage car. They make the transaction easy on the seller by buying sight unseen and wiring payment immediately. Sucks but the only way to stop them is to stop selling these nice cars to dealers. Sure selling to a private party can be a PITA but at least you're not dealing with the devil :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Last edited by GregCT on Nov 06, 2013 11:02 AM, edited 1 time in total.
BimmerSultan
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Post by BimmerSultan »

wkohler wrote:
BimmerSultan wrote:
GregCT wrote:
Good luck with that one.
Doubt they'll need it. Willing to bet it sells fairly quickly.
They must have bought the two cars out of North Carolina. That red car was $12,900 a few days ago. There was a black one too for 11 something.

All this place does is take good cars out of reach of real enthusiasts.

That's a great point Graham.
M5 is sold. The two cars "I" was talking about are now listed, but the one referenced in this quote is not one of them. That's why I said it was different cars. I really should have just bought the stinkin' things. Going to start looking at these puppies a little differently from now on.
chrism
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Post by chrism »

Delightful outlook.

I respectfully decline your offer.
rvnmaniak wrote:Good. Now that I know you're a dealer I don't feel so bad. You have no business being on this board.
Go to AutoTrader or cars.com where you belong.
CSBM5
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Post by CSBM5 »

GregCT wrote:I understand the reasons the e30 M3s are climbing in value; they had relatively low production, were homologated for racing with tons of success. Nice ones now go for above original MSRP, in some cases way above. Regular 325is cars have none of this history. They are fun cars to drive, I actually had a nice one 10 years ago, but thirty thousand dollars?? Can you say bubble?
Bubble exactly defines the rate of change in prices on some German cars since the 2006 top in muscle cars and 2007/8 peak in the economy. Look at the E39 M5 market! For under 5k mile examples, they are approaching their original MSRP, and now EAG has a competitor in this space...someplace up in New Hampshire. I've had my E39 M5 for 10 years, have followed the market closely the whole time, and since it bottomed in pricing in 2009, prices are way up. One like mine (63k miles now, garaged 24/7 since new) could have been bought for ~18k back in 2009, and now the market for well-cared for examples is way above that. EAG has dominated the purchase of low mileage, well-kept examples, and at any given time seems to always have 15-20 E39 M5s on their lot (sitting in the sun and rain I might add, lol).

So does the rate of change in pricing continue forever more? At the current rate of change in prices, a 5k mile E39 M5 will hit $100,000 within two years.

As always, humans will take the recent past and linearly project it out into the future. Those projections are often in error. ;)
///Mflossin
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Post by ///Mflossin »

Lots of small guys on the "sidelines" right now. I am not in the market hard for anything per se but I am willing to buy a good car at a what I consider a reasonable price. It's hard to find that right now. I was able to do it with my 1988 535is and could also have done it with an e36M3 but the car underwhelmed me when I drove it so I passed. Needless to say it's sort of funny to watch some of the e30 M3's being sold. I am starting to think that maybe I should throw mine up for $80-$100K. ;) Some of the e28 M5's as well...rust, beat up interior, half the maintenance records etc. up over $30K. Wow....hope you find an insurance company that will give you agreed value. Even Haggerty has a limit as to what they'll do for these BMW's...
EAG
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EAG

Post by EAG »

A very kind "THANK YOU" to those of you on this board that have done business with us in the past and stand behind what we're doing with our beloved BMWs. I always find threads like this comical and consistent. Those that have spoken to us in the past even if they haven't done business with us always support what we're doing and those that have never had a conversation with either of the two owners will say what they feel.

Yes, we often sell cars at the top of the market in terms of price, this is no secret. Coincidentally, these cars are always among the best specimens left on the road and we connect the best cars with great enthusiast caretakers. We fully sort our cars with our 20+ employees in our service, restoration and detail departments. How many “used car dealers” offer all restoration services in house with the primary goal of addressing service/age/condition items to the best possible quality level for the next owner and many more down the line seeing we buy all our cars back from our clients? We address any and all issues on 99% of the cars we deal in. In the rare occasion a car comes in that can "go in many directions" whether it is a light or full restoration candidate, we'll keep our options open for our customers and provide a full condition report on every aspect of the car. We provide detailed estimates for what we’d recommend improved and sort the cars with the highest quality standards in the industry. Again, not for everyone but those that don’t want to get their hands dirty love these services and resources that have been honed with thousands of BMWs through our process.

The 1988 M5 we've recently sold it a perfect example of the 1% of cars we deal in as a restoration candidate. We evaluated all aspects of the car for any and all interested buyers. The fact that is was available for sale for about 20 hours before a qualified buyer stepped up with several other prospective buyers ready and willing deposit in hand after the fact shows the strength of our brand and the full disclosure we offer to our interested buyers. We updated all the mechanical and safety issues included in the selling price such as replacing the broken antenna (OEM), new tires (best available in stock sizing), valve adjustment, alternator bushings, belts, exhaust manifold studs/nuts, power steering lines, updated the AC system to working order, alignment, a host of other small items so that everything worked 100%, etc. We then provided an estimate for other recommended work depending on what the next owner wanted to do with the car from all new interior, full exterior restoration, SLS replacement or update, etc. The client who bought the car wanted a fun car he could drive and enjoy and update a few things during his ownership along the way. We updated the full suspension (SLS delete keeping stock components to follow the car) and updated the interior for him per the estimates provided. He's going to do a full exterior restoration in a few short years. He's very happy to have an all numbers matching car to do it with. He also bought a very nice 1991 M3 from us at the same time. He's loading up the stable for him and his young boys to enjoy over the coming years. Great cars going to a great home.

Please note: we photograph our cars after a quick cleanup to show the cars arrival condition. We take well over 100 detailed photos of the cars and focus on the cars shortcomings in our “condition related photos” that we provide all interested buyers. We then provide them with a full list of what EAG is updating included in the purchase price. We feel this is a more honest and exact representation of the cars we’re dealing with and much more transparent. No used car is perfect, however it is our goal to provide the market with used BMWs with a level of “new car confidence” once our comprehensive process is complete.

If anyone ever has questions about what we do or how we do it, even if you’re not interested in buying a specific car from us or having us service/restore your existing BMW, we’re always available and happy to take the phone call or respond to the email.

For those that would like a behind the scenes look at EAG and our facilities and services, here is a 1 minute video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqJQHsLV8WM

My direct phone number is: 513 – 554 – 1BMW (1269) and my email is EK @ EABMW.com
funfunfer
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Post by funfunfer »

mooseheadm5 wrote: They didn't even clean the cosmoline off the valve cover. :?
Other than a Vulcan Death Ray, what will remove 22 year old Cosmoline?
Mark in Toronto
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Post by Mark in Toronto »

BimmerSultan wrote:M5 is sold. (within 20 hours of being offered for sale)
And to an enthusiast.

:ohyeah:
tig
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Post by tig »

funfunfer wrote:
mooseheadm5 wrote: They didn't even clean the cosmoline off the valve cover. :?
Other than a Vulcan Death Ray, what will remove 22 year old Cosmoline?
Steam and elbow grease.

I've also had success with diesel, but steam is now my go-to.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche- ... etail.html
chrism
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Post by chrism »

heh :beer:
GregCT
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Post by GregCT »

///Mflossin wrote:Wow....hope you find an insurance company that will give you agreed value. Even Haggerty has a limit as to what they'll do for these BMW's...
Great point. If someone buys this $30k 325is and puts it on their standard Allstate policy, the most they would likely get in the case of a total loss would be $10k.
EAG
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Post by EAG »

GregCT wrote:
///Mflossin wrote:Wow....hope you find an insurance company that will give you agreed value. Even Haggerty has a limit as to what they'll do for these BMW's...
Great point. If someone buys this $30k 325is and puts it on their standard Allstate policy, the most they would likely get in the case of a total loss would be $10k.
For most owners outside the EAG circle, you are correct. In the few cases where we have had a client find themselves in a total loss situation with one of our cars we are happy to get involved with the insurance company on their behalf providing abundant sales comp data. We have always been successful in seeing that our clients are compensated for their loss at realistic market/replacement value as opposed to book value. We are actually in the middle of doing this for a client with a 2000 M-Coupe he bought from us earlier this year for $29K. A woman pulled out in front of him and pretty nasty accident. Everyone was fine (most important!) but the car is a write off. We will ensure he receives 90-95% of what he paid for this coupe 3,000 miles ago back in April. This is one of the many benefits in having a working relationship with EAG.
oldskool
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Post by oldskool »

All that goodness coming out of little 'ole Sharonville, Ohio.
:)
///Mflossin
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Post by ///Mflossin »

EAG wrote:
GregCT wrote:
///Mflossin wrote:Wow....hope you find an insurance company that will give you agreed value. Even Haggerty has a limit as to what they'll do for these BMW's...
Great point. If someone buys this $30k 325is and puts it on their standard Allstate policy, the most they would likely get in the case of a total loss would be $10k.
For most owners outside the EAG circle, you are correct. In the few cases where we have had a client find themselves in a total loss situation with one of our cars we are happy to get involved with the insurance company on their behalf providing abundant sales comp data. We have always been successful in seeing that our clients are compensated for their loss at realistic market/replacement value as opposed to book value. We are actually in the middle of doing this for a client with a 2000 M-Coupe he bought from us earlier this year for $29K. A woman pulled out in front of him and pretty nasty accident. Everyone was fine (most important!) but the car is a write off. We will ensure he receives 90-95% of what he paid for this coupe 3,000 miles ago back in April. This is one of the many benefits in having a working relationship with EAG.
I do not doubt your claim that you are involved in the process and provide comps but I can tell you one thing for sure, if the client's insurance company is insuring a car and you get whacked by an uninsured motorist....that is going to be a tough sell when BB is king. So unless you take that to court, it's going to be hard to get. Even subrogation, if successful, will prove to be a HUGE time lag depending on the offending insurance company. Hagerty is the only company that I know who is VERY good when it comes to agreed upon insurance. Once other variables enter the mix...it's anybody's game and when you start talking about cookie cutter insurance companies, which I'd say 65% of people have, you are in for a fight to get your money.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

I don't even think that's an argument worth having. You could pay big money for a car from a private seller too. Frankly, I wouldn't expect any seller to help with the claims process on a car. Frankly if you buy a car like this and don't put an agreed value policy on it, well, I don't know what to tell you. That is great that they are willin to help in that regard, but I haven't run into many nsurance companies that care about outside comps. I just disagree with their business model in general and don't feel that a video featuring cars being revved up on cold engines should make me want to become a fan. I just think it is funny to see people lambast the car when it was for sale for roughly half the price and then talk about how awesome it is that a flipper bought the car and is getting big money for it now. I didn't realize that when someone puts a car up for sale with 2 Nexen tires and a broken antenna that I'm supposed to call and ask "what tires are on the car now and did you replace the antenna yet?" I've noticed that plenty of people with money don't look at photos and you really cannot see anything in the dimly lit photos anyway.
CSBM5
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Post by CSBM5 »

Not often a bell gets rung at the top of a mania, but let's revisit this point in time in about 12 months to just see what has happened. When you have this kind of crazy action, buyers screaming at you to sell, buyers who couldn't care less what the price is they just have to own the asset, as an asset holder you SELL. The liquidity we see right now in all the German desired (and some not so desired) cars has never existed on this scale in the past. Wise holders of such assets know this is the clue to liquidate into the mania. You may not catch the top, but once the turn comes, liquidity will dry up quickly.
///Mflossin
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Post by ///Mflossin »

wkohler wrote:I don't even think that's an argument worth having. You could pay big money for a car from a private seller too. Frankly, I wouldn't expect any seller to help with the claims process on a car. Frankly if you buy a car like this and don't put an agreed value policy on it, well, I don't know what to tell you. That is great that they are willin to help in that regard, but I haven't run into many nsurance companies that care about outside comps. I just disagree with their business model in general and don't feel that a video featuring cars being revved up on cold engines should make me want to become a fan. I just think it is funny to see people lambast the car when it was for sale for roughly half the price and then talk about how awesome it is that a flipper bought the car and is getting big money for it now. I didn't realize that when someone puts a car up for sale with 2 Nexen tires and a broken antenna that I'm supposed to call and ask "what tires are on the car now and did you replace the antenna yet?" I've noticed that plenty of people with money don't look at photos and you really cannot see anything in the dimly lit photos anyway.
Oh... I agree. I was, more or less, making a point in general. The problem in some of these instances (where the market price varies so much) is that standard insurance companies will never give you what EAG is pricing them at in agreed value. I struggled,even with Hagerty, for them to see me eye to eye on the agreed value with my e30 M3 and that is even with all of the recent public acclaim. No argument from me but let's be real, Hagerty is not dumb and they also have market prices that are on their screens. I think you have a "process" on your hands if you think you are going to get an AV policy on an e28 M5 for $35k unless it's something special (low miles or big resto). Again... I am speaking in general and not directly.

Agree with you CSB...we'll have to see!
M5BB
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Post by M5BB »

chrism wrote:Everyone needs to make a living. The next poster and each subsequent in this thread should disclose what they do, and why they have more of a right to do something that creates income.

Making money does not make them evil. $40,000 is 1-2-3 years income to some...1 hours income to blow on a weekend escape to Paris or on a M5 to others.

These guys cater to the upper crust with very disposable income. Don't :bawl:
Making a fair profit does not equal ripping people off even if they do have money.
I would find it hard to sleep at night. Evidently they don't because they do it all the time.
rvnmaniak
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Post by rvnmaniak »

M5BB wrote:
chrism wrote:Everyone needs to make a living. The next poster and each subsequent in this thread should disclose what they do, and why they have more of a right to do something that creates income.

Making money does not make them evil. $40,000 is 1-2-3 years income to some...1 hours income to blow on a weekend escape to Paris or on a M5 to others.

These guys cater to the upper crust with very disposable income. Don't :bawl:
Making a fair profit does not equal ripping people off even if they do have money.
I would find it hard to sleep at night. Evidently they don't because they do it all the time.
I think the stereotype of people who have "money" is laughable. Some who have money actually are more sensitive to being ripped off by places like EAG. Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you throw money around unnecessarily.
Sometimes that's why people become wealthy.
dandandk
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Post by dandandk »

M5BB wrote:
chrism wrote:Everyone needs to make a living. The next poster and each subsequent in this thread should disclose what they do, and why they have more of a right to do something that creates income.

Making money does not make them evil. $40,000 is 1-2-3 years income to some...1 hours income to blow on a weekend escape to Paris or on a M5 to others.

These guys cater to the upper crust with very disposable income. Don't :bawl:
Making a fair profit does not equal ripping people off even if they do have money.
I would find it hard to sleep at night. Evidently they don't because they do it all the time.
I ve never done any business with EAG, i dont plan to buy any car at their prices and i have no clue about what kind of work they really perform before reselling their cars so i cant comment on that. On top of that, as a bmw enthusiast, i have to say i also share mixed feelings when i see someone buying a car for 12k and then selling it 2 weeks later for 30k. However, i suppose they are a dealer and whether they are enthusiast or not, they are in the business to make $$$. It s a free market and all of the cars that s been discussed in the forums recently were on sale on mass advertisement websites such as craiglist/ebay which means any of us could have potentially been the buyers and even try to sell them for EAG prices if we wanted (most likely we would not get to sell at their prices even if we try really hard). EAG post all of their cars in its website with their price tag on it so that anyone can analyse and make their own judgement call before making the purchase; they go even beyond that and admit they re charging you the top money for a given vehicle (setting a new top would be more appropriate?). If even after knowing all of that someone decides to buy a car at their price, i think EAG are really not the ones to be blamed. I personally dont blame anyone but if i had to choose one, i d pick the buyer who s just paying much more than he would if he d done his homework.
WilNJ
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Post by WilNJ »

I'm wondering if the same discussions took place 15 years ago when the muscle car market started to heat up. 20 years ago, there was a generation of people that arrived a point in their lives that they could afford a car they used to own when it was just an old used car that they loved or they lusted after it in the car magazines. I'm sure that 15-20 years ago, muscle car owners thought it was ridiculous to see good examples of those cars going into 6 figures, 10-20 times what they were worth new.

We're now at the same point, that 40 and 50 something's with disposable income have arrived at the same point in their lives.

Did some people get pushed out of the hobby because they could only afford a pile of rust held together by paint, and it became a project that never went anywhere? Yes.

Was there a bubble? Yes.

Are these cars tangibly worth $30k for a plain jane E30? No, the conversation about trying to insure them. but if someone wants to park it in their garage to look at and remember the POS he got from his uncle for $800 after graduating from college, more power to him.

Will it be worth that much in 10 or 15 years? Not likely but at least we can all look forward to the day when he liquidates his collection and that car has been put away and cared for, rather than dropped on cut springs and run through 5 oil pans all while being parked in a high school parking lot on stretched Chinese tires and knock off BBS rimz.
BimmerSultan
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Post by BimmerSultan »

WilNJ wrote:...but at least we can all look forward to the day when he liquidates his collection and that car has been put away and cared for, rather than dropped on cut springs and run through 5 oil pans all while being parked in a high school parking lot on stretched Chinese tires and knock off BBS rimz.
I love this
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