1983 528e not running / wiring issues / done - fixed forever

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 23, 2012 3:41 AM

Well good news is, I'm having fun.

Found a write up on disassembling the cluster - but mine looks different from the back, and also where you remove the speedometer looks different. Seems like breaking this fragile piece is something I would do and I'm not going to, so she will go back in. The 5? connectors that you pull or push up at - well they look "locked" in. I'm not going there. So I'm going to clean everything up first, then install.

It was good to remove the cluster because I got to get my hands on the clock and pull that sucker out.

Hot at all times? Well now it's not doing anything. Going to wire up a gauge of some sorts in the spot - don't really know yet - I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Also, there is one red wire, coming from the footrest? drivers side next to the clutch and it looks to go to the shift boot.

but it's all alone? weird?

Also, gotta post pics of the drivers side interior light wiring - much different than passenger side.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 23, 2012 8:41 AM

no code plug eh?

Guess it's wired like an 82. Doesn't matter to me.

oh my ground strap from the alternator to the block looks beautiful.

that's not going back in the car.

even if I clean it up--it's still unusable.

Going to buy a foot of 4 gauge wire in just a few minutes.

I saw someone used 12 gauge wire on the forum as a ground strap for the alternator. I don't want to do that.

oh yeah, swapping alternators - going to make it work.

I'm an idiot and was making it too difficult before.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 23, 2012 9:52 AM

I'm an idiot.

Should have just done this from the start.

Anyway, new alternator ground (4 gauge for 5.59, it was a battery cable but I cut it and put a new connector at one end)

Got my 88 seta alternator and battery tested and they both are good to go. Awesome!

Old alternator - crap.

Cut the wires to the alternator and put new connections on them to fit the new alternator. (old had a spade negative and a smaller positive)

Going to throw her in now. I'm expecting great results.

Don't have a trunk, glovebox, or interior lights connected and the clock is disconnected.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 23, 2012 7:04 PM

still no power to fuse 1.

noticed my main relay is a 5 prong, but there was a 4 prong in there.

swapped in a 5 prong I got at the yard with corresponding spades...

drain is gone, checked all wiring and fixed everything that looked like crap. most stuff wasn't hooked up, I'm sure these wires were hitting some metal or something.

cigarette lighter wasn't hooked up, neither was the window saftey switch. radio wiring was INSANE so I took the radio out because I thought it would start a fire.

next, popping the fuse box back open, checking it three times and not twice.

after that, removing connectors from the main and fuel pump relay sockets and cleaning those.

it should be so simple. I need to check s113, s110, s213 and inside the fuse box. maybe c101 too. UGHHHHHHHHHHH

I'll have my associates degree in wiring after this.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 24, 2012 4:39 AM

did a lot of cleaning.

still not done.

ICV hums when it wants to!

very stressful.

Pulled c101, blue contacts--what else is new.

cleaning those? hmmmm how would I do that. gun cleaning tools?

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 24, 2012 6:09 AM

the icv keeps being intermittent.

1 wire from c101 goes to fuse 1, the other goes to fuse 6. they're both green. one gets power, one doesn't. the one to fuse 1 doesn't.

my reference sensor and speed sensor are both getting readings of 549 to 560 ohms?

How can that be right?

I've had this car running, I am amazed by how intermittent everything is.

----

can't find my dremel kit. using a wire wheel powered by a 220 compressor to clean grounds and such. (was also taking out some hidden rust on the underside of the hood and spraying primer) but I was bored for a minute. Off the tangent - took a bunch of skin off my finger. GREAT!

It's been since about 11:30 last night.

maybe my answer is around the steering wheel.

Don't have an obc so it's not the OBC relay and I can't "bypass" it if it doesn't exist.

fuse 6 is intermittently powering some applications such as the ICV (clicks but hums when it wants)

well back to what I was doing.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 24, 2012 11:39 AM

grote 2 prong flasher relay?

yeah that was what was in the car.

the ground..was...

well what ground!

looks like a trip to the yard is wednesday?

ok back for more interesting findings.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 24, 2012 12:11 PM

fuck this car. the guy that owned it before, and before, and before--UGHHHHHHHHHHH

I've never spent so much time checking wires.

No more draw, great.

no power to fuse on, and intermittent power to fuse 6's accesories...WTF

cleaned so many connections that I'm gonna go crazy.

are there any circuits that would cause a NON obc 528e to lose power to fuse 1??

There has to be something I'm looking past, or that isn't in my path of vision at all.

any help would be amazing--I've been working on this car all night long and all day long for too many moons.

I'm not touching it till the rest of the parts arrive (icv, icm, ecu, fuel pump relay (another one! ugh I have 2 here?)

I'm scared to hook those up--I don't want them to crap out because of this crap wiring.

garageboy · Post by **garageboy** » Dec 25, 2012 3:19 AM

People with severe ADHD should not own E28s.

Sir, are you aware that none of us are actually reading the details of any of your notes because your notes are written like a methamphetamine addict ripping into an E28 and then writing about it?

Do you now understand why some of us urged caution when you were about to purchase this car? So instead of letting us help you buy that beautiful E28 bsegalis found in NYC a mere few weeks later, a car you could learn from and make improvements to over time, you impulsively bought this meerd-bucket that you are now wasting your time trying to reverse-engineer what some tard mechanic did. Listen to these words: you will probably never get to the bottom of the problem and this car will just suck the life out of you for no good reason beyond your own stubbornness to admit to yourself that you made a mistake.

Cut your losses. With the all-over-the-place writing style you've displayed in this note, I guarantee that no one will be able to help you (shagrath deserves a freakin' medal for trying), and no reasonable mechanic will be willing to waste their time with this car either.

If none of this connects with your grey matter, I officially give up.

.steve.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 25, 2012 3:38 AM

It's Christmas, piss off.

You have diarrhea of the mouth.

TheLazyDog · Post by **TheLazyDog** » Dec 25, 2012 4:00 AM

I think you need some sleep, mate.

And when you wake up, to stop and smell some roses every once in a while.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 25, 2012 4:45 AM

CanisLupusRobotus wrote:I think you need some sleep, mate.

And when you wake up, to stop and smell some roses every once in a while.

How old are you?

Kyle in NO · Post by **Kyle in NO** » Dec 25, 2012 10:01 AM

Dude, you are in so far over your head with this car it's hilarious.

waynet1 · Post by **waynet1** » Dec 25, 2012 10:37 AM

Kyle in NO wrote:Dude, you are in so far over your head with this car it's hilarious.

^^^
Very nicely understated.

Someone pleaselockhimup.

a · Post by a » Dec 25, 2012 10:45 AM

Dood, get some sleep. Are you doing this on Red Bull or other stuff?. Wrong way to travel when fixing cars. You want to be mellowed out. Anyway, you can use the link in my sig to a specific wiring system. trouble shooting manual. If fuse 1 has no juice , fuel pump wont go. . Find the fuel pump relay . It has a green and a green a violet wire. and a red wire feeding the socket . You jump the red and the GV together. 37 to 70? Having a brain cramp. Walk out back to the RR. If you can hear the fuel pump, try to start the engine. Post results. Stop tearing the car apart willy-nilly

rodpaine · Post by **rodpaine** » Dec 25, 2012 11:13 AM

Step 1 - Do exactly as "a" suggests. You've got to chill out and start working in the proper sequence, or you will never get the car straightened out.

Step 2 - Read what was discussed here about your earlier comment "my reference sensor and speed sensor are both getting readings of 549 to 560 ohms? How can that be right?" This has been an issue with various brand sensors for quite a while. I have personally seen such sensors on three different 528es, two that wouldn't run at all.
FWIW,
-Rod

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 25, 2012 7:58 PM

you guys can make fun of me as much as you want--whatever floats your boat and if makes you happy--I'm glad I can be there for your amusement.

The confusion for me is that I've had the car run.
I've seen it run and start with no issue.

The battery was hooked up backwards by the P.O. and a lot needed to be tended to. If my ecu is no good, there is one in the mail along with a ICV, and ICM. That should cover everything.

I eliminated the battery draw which was a very annoying process and I think the relays that were in the car are wrong.

I have looked over the ETM so many times, I think I have figured out the issue and it's very simple.

Any relay will "click" in the main relay spot--that's great--it's supposed to, but will it serve the purpose of the main relay with the two 87 contacts? One goes to the ECU, one goes to the fuel pump relay.

Rod - your car has a 4 prong bosch relay in the main relay plug--well I have the same relay and it's a 4 prong. That is wrong. Why would my plug have spots for 5 prongs (not open but with wires to connect to) but without both 87's going to the relay - I'm either powering up the ECU or powering up the fuel pump - but not both. Rod - just read the article, and I am so glad you pointed that out. I love my bentley manual but it has steered me wrong so many times. One page in the ignition section tells me to torque my rotor adapter to 44 ft lbs. Another page page in one of the engine sections says 17 ft lbs for the same rotor adapter. Needless to say--I needed to get a new bolt because I streched mine out.

A - my car is a 1/83 528e with no OBC (just a clock) so my guess is that all the wiring is of the 82 style. If I jump 30 to 87, yes I the fuel pump runs. I do sleep but always on accident. Being in college, you learn to go long amounts of time without sleep and you do sleep like a hibernating bear when the tasks are completed. I am on coffee, and mountain dew, determination and motivation. At the moment, with the relays that came with the car and have ran the car before--it won't start. It's not getting spark, but sometimes it will fire right up and immediately die.

I have the relays connected as Rod's are, but my bosch main relay is only a 4 prong but the connector is wired for 5. If I had the experience, I would have noticed this at first glance.

My plan is to swap in the main relay (white) from my 528e which is a 5 prong. Going to make sure the schematic on the relay is correct for the function it must serve. Will toss in a fuel pump relay -- double check everything, clean c101 one more time (had lots of blue corrosion) and go for the start.

Personally I'm glad I tore the car apart, there were lots of things wrong with it that really needed to be addressed. windows weren't working, cigar lighter wasn't hooked up and was causing a draw, wipers weren't electrically conneted, radio was a birdsnest with 1 blown 3 amp fast blow fuse (very important to have the correct fuse, fast or slow, learned this with tube guitar amps) Now I have more confidence in the car.

Kyle in NO can't learn to swim from outside the pool, gotta dive right in. [/img][/b]

TheLazyDog · Post by **TheLazyDog** » Dec 25, 2012 9:05 PM

pleasefixitup wrote:you guys can make fun of me as much as you want--whatever floats your boat and if makes you happy--I'm glad I can be there for your amusement.

Bro. No one is seriously making fun of you. Everyone is still trying to help you.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 25, 2012 9:08 PM

CanisLupusRobotus wrote:
pleasefixitup wrote:you guys can make fun of me as much as you want--whatever floats your boat and if makes you happy--I'm glad I can be there for your amusement.
Bro. No one is seriously making fun of you. Everyone is still trying to help you.

I think it's 70/30 (help / joking), but it's warranted I suppose. I don't mind since I do think it's normal to haze the newbie.

I do appreciate all the help--I don't want anyone to think I don't.

Kyle in NO · Post by **Kyle in NO** » Dec 26, 2012 12:14 AM

I don't know where you are getting this from, but I guarantee you 100% that Rod does not have a 4-prong relay in the Main Relay socket. I think someone may have moved your relay sockets to the wrong locations, hence the reason you are befuddled.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 26, 2012 6:29 AM

I can't see all the numbers on his relay--but I have a relay with the similar label on top--maybe the last 3 numbers are different.

put the white main relay in, fired right up then died. then nothing.

fuel pump isn't running--surprised it fired up.

something is off...

rodpaine · Post by **rodpaine** » Dec 26, 2012 7:04 AM

Kyle is correct! I don't know where you got the idea that my MAIN RELAY was a four-pin configuration, but it isn't! Look at page 148 (ON-BOARD COMPUTER schematic) of the 1983 BMW 528e/533i Electrical Shooting Manual and you'll see clearly that the MAIN RELAY is a five pin relay.
-Rod

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 26, 2012 7:06 AM

rodpaine wrote:Kyle is correct! I don't know where you got the idea that my MAIN RELAY was a four-pin configuration, but it isn't! Look at page 148 (ON-BOARD COMPUTER schematic) of the 1983 BMW 528e/533i Electrical Shooting Manual and you'll see clearly that the MAIN RELAY is a five pin relay.
-Rod

I don't have an OBC on my 83, it's build date 1/83 and I don't know when the OBCs were installed. Maybe 3/83?

I know the main is a 5 pin, what are the last 3 digits on your bosch main relay?

We just posted at the same time--look at my post above yours. Thanks.

rodpaine · Post by **rodpaine** » Dec 26, 2012 8:41 AM

pleasefixitup wrote:I know the main is a 5 pin, what are the last 3 digits on your bosch main relay?

It is a BOSCH 0 332 014 112 which is still available under that number, but often substituted with an 0 332 204 401, depending on your source. It will also work in an '83. Another important thing to remember, is just because you can hear a relay 'click', doesn't mean it is okay, as its internal contacts can be worn out/burned out and no longer able to supply the current needed to the device(s) it powers, even though you can here it click. I carry a box of brand new relays for E28 use, that I have used to help other E28 owners with. That's how common faulty and intermittent relays are in the E28, but only because too many folks try to run them for 20-30 years... not to mention hanging additional electrical loads on them and cooking their internal contacts!
-Rod

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 26, 2012 8:02 PM

rodpaine wrote:
pleasefixitup wrote:I know the main is a 5 pin, what are the last 3 digits on your bosch main relay?
It is a BOSCH 0 332 014 112 which is still available under that number, but often substituted with an 0 332 204 401, depending on your source. It will also work in an '83. Another important thing to remember, is just because you can hear a relay 'click', doesn't mean it is okay, as its internal contacts can be worn out/burned out and no longer able to supply the current needed to the device(s) it powers, even though you can here it click. I carry a box of brand new relays for E28 use, that I have used to help other E28 owners with. That's how common faulty and intermittent relays are in the E28, but only because too many folks try to run them for 20-30 years... not to mention hanging additional electrical loads on them and cooking their internal contacts!
-Rod

I tried two 122 relays....bah! one is making something click intermittently down by the motor mount. not sure what it is.

going to pull the contacts out of the fuse holder and clean those...go from there.

also, I think I'll try "jumping" the main relay to see what happens from there to rule that out as well.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 26, 2012 11:01 PM

fuel pump took a load!

seal is bad for the cover - there is actually ice in there.

funny but a seal is a easy fix.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 27, 2012 12:07 AM

c200 power to ignition switch with power to run

bk - .05 volts
red - 12.28 (battery is a bit low)
purple - 12.28
green - 12.28
br/w - 12.28
br/bl - 11.98 fluctuating
brown - 0
br/rd - 12.28
rd/w - 12.28
gr/br - 0

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 27, 2012 12:13 AM

if fuse 1 is powered by fuse 6....I should just switch the wire from fuse 6 to 1 and then go from there.

ok back in 10.

mooseheadm5 · Post by **mooseheadm5** » Dec 27, 2012 12:19 AM

It is not.

pleasefixitup · Post by **pleasefixitup** » Dec 27, 2012 12:51 AM

mooseheadm5 wrote:It is not.

whats that all about?

should I be looking at the 82 or 83 etm, I think 82 since my car is 1/83 and has no obc.

-------

when I jump the fuel pump relay - i get power to fuse 1 - but only about half...my battery had about 10.5 volts and I was getting 5 volts to fuse 1.

-----

it's 3:35 am.

no longer worried about this.

I have my money on the ecu being fried (no fuseable link for e28's) and that is why I'm not getting signals sent out when I need them or where I need them.

when the ecu and icm and icv arrive--I will simply swap and hope for the best

I'm still far within budget for this car.

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

1983 528e not running / wiring issues / done - fixed forever