The TCD Hartge M535i is for sale

[Kyle in NO]

So, just to confirm, the trunk floor DOES have the bumper shock reinforcements present, as every US spec car has? This will be proof positive.

[Jeremy]

I did not want customs to have any questions/issues with it.

And I think that, boys and girls, is about as close as you'll get to the "real story" regarding the VIN on this particular car.

[KillerPM]

I did not want customs to have any questions/issues with it.

And I think that, boys and girls, is about as close as you'll get to the "real story" regarding the VIN on this particular car.

I guess we will leave it at this then...

[Kyle in NO]

The shit is getting deep now fellas. Even the CarDomain page has been changed, as KillerPM has noted. Wow.

You'd think this was a Democratic election campaign if you didn't know better!

[Karl Grau]

You'd think this was a Democratic election campaign if you didn't know better!

[L_N_Love]

"VINGATE"

[unt0uchable]

This is VERY true. The story HAS changed as of very recently.

So either this car has illegally had its VIN swapped, or we have all been lied to for the past few years.

Which is it?

Here is the archived version of the cardomain page:

http://web.archive.org/web/200904101910 ... ide/269576

(Still a cool car, but what the heck!)

The only difference I found between the archive and the current car domain page was this right here:

I had the US car stripped and painted. I was charged 3000 DM ($1300) for a complete paint job! The Germans loved working on the car. There are very few cars of this age in Germany still on the road, they all get crushed due to very restrictive safety inspections.

I had the car stripped and painted. I was charged 3000 DM ($1300) for a complete paint job! The Germans loved working on the car. There are very few cars of this age in Germany still on the road, they all get crushed due to very restrictive safety inspections.

So what. It's a bad ass car no matter the history, and it's obviously been fully gone through. It's practically new Anyway, so what's it matter if the VIN ain't tellin the whole story. If you are looking at this car, you aren't looking for a purist version of an M535i Anyway....

[Mark in Toronto]

You'd think this was a Democratic election campaign if you didn't know better!

I just plugged in the hot air popcorn machine.........

[L_N_Love]

So what. It's a bad ass car no matter the history, and it's obviously been fully gone through. It's practically new anyway, so what's it matter if the VIN ain't tellin the whole story. If you are looking at this car, you aren't looking for a purist version of an M535i anyway....

It is a cool car. The issue is whether is was legally imported. Maybe it doesn't matter anyway since it is now 27 yrs. old.

[Kyle in NO]

Actually the real issue is whether the car is registered using a false VIN, which would be a big problem.

[Mark in Toronto]

The story HAS changed as of very recently.

So either this car has illegally had its VIN swapped, or we have all been lied to for the past few years.

Which is it?

Why would someone go to the trouble to change the Cardomain story? Especially very recently. Seems rather odd.

Instead of an M535 clone, perhaps it would be more accurate to call the car a 545 clone because it has a M106 block.

You can't clone a car that doesn't exist.

I understand that the SA (South Africa) factory lunatics slapped together a handful of '545' 5ers with 745 engines in 'em - but those might have been E12s (my memory fails me) and in any event, they would have been RHD. Still, if somebody wanted to put a "545" on the ass end of this, it would hardly diminish what it is.

Come to think of it, not sure about an e28 545, but the South Africans did drop an M30 into a limited number of e30's.

[oldskool]

T minus zero 'til Duke starts to get pissy.
I'mma grab beer. . .

[adrian in florida]

I recall Duke discussing the paint shop in Germany. So the car was painted there. Pretty good job as I recall. I recall the blown head gaskets on the initial turbo set up... Who could ever forget that

I recall numerous kill stories.

I can see how the Vin descrepancies could hurt the value but the reality is its a hot rodded vehicle and it one of a kind.

I always, for some reason ,thought it was an m535 that was modded... I guess I misunderstood whay Duke meant to say.

No matter what , still a cool car especially if the current owner got rid of the gremlins and the chicken.

[tsmall07]

This is VERY true. The story HAS changed as of very recently.

So either this car has illegally had its VIN swapped, or we have all been lied to for the past few years.

Which is it?

Here is the archived version of the cardomain page:

http://web.archive.org/web/200904101910 ... ide/269576

(Still a cool car, but what the heck!)

The old page is the old one, too. It definitely leads you to believe that the car is and has always been a euro car.

[carnutdallas]

Actually the real issue is whether the car is registered using a false VIN, which would be a big problem.

Why? It exist. It is not stolen. The car has a very well documented history. The only people who know much about it are those of us who are on here. Anyone else who wants to know more can read these pages - well the pages of the 8+ year old threads. VIN really is not shit but a way for governments to track and tax us. They were designed to prevent fraud on huge scale, by those intending to defraud millions of people - not one or two. They were designed to systematize the industry with relation to warranty, manufacture and importation. If an individual builds a one off car out of two, documents it and discloses the reason behind the actions he took to get a car into the US, I am more than fine with it. I built nearly 10 kit cars and registered them in Texas. They were Cobra replicas and to title them in the 90's in Texas we used mustang VIN's from donor frames. 10 years later the state of Texas developed a program to generate a VIN for a "kit" car and for an individual to register it; that was born out of the growth and popularity of the auto enthusiast industry for "kit" cars.

BMW couldn't care less about the car. The price of the car reflects the value of the car as a whole right now, not its collect-ability in the future. It is just a cool car.....let it go. Forget the past.....move on. It is 2012 and no one on this particular thread is trying to buy it.....yet. If I am missing something or I am way out of line, forgive me. I really have no dog in this fight. I just hate to see a silly thread about a non-issue in my mind. -Peace

[TT]

Guys...this isn't Duke's car anymore, it's my car. It is legally titled in Arizona, has been legally titled in GA and TN and has gone through inspections with US Customs a hand full of times, the State of Arizona (I was present for that one) and BMW itself.
If you have a problem with Duke, then take it up with him. Please do not involve me or my car. I do not appreciate the slander.

[Mark in Toronto]

T minus zero 'til Duke starts to get pissy.
I'mma grab beer. . .

Just cracked a cold one. Forget about watching the Olympics tonight.

No matter what , still a cool car especially if the current owner got rid of the gremlins...

I totally agree.

Tony I don't think anyone is hammering you, this is just some surprising info about something that was much discussed way back when and is not what we thought. I at least, see no misrepresentation on your part. Maybe someone before you acquired it, but not you.

x2 and well said (or written).

[Mike W.]

Tony I don't think anyone is hammering you, this is just some surprising info about something that was much discussed way back when and is not what we thought. I at least, see no misrepresentation on your part. Maybe someone before you acquired it, but not you.

[Karl Grau]

T minus zero 'til Duke starts to get pissy.
I'mma grab beer. . .

[L_N_Love]

Tony I don't think anyone is hammering you, this is just some surprising info about something that was much discussed way back when and is not what we thought. I at least, see no misrepresentation on your part. Maybe someone before you acquired it, but not you.

+1000

[djazz]

Hey Tony! Hope all is well.

GLWS.

Back in 2002, right after I bought my eta, this car specifically along with many others at 5erFest #1, showed me what an E28 could be. The Build was epic. TT bought it and the car was made even better. There is no more historically significant example.

[grahamular]

The VIN story is interesting and I guess I must have missed that part of the Duke build saga way back when. But as long as the VIN and title match it's not likely to cause any problems for a new owner, as it will never be mistaken for anything but a heavily modified car.

But I would suggest removing the phantom M535i from the ///M Registry to clear up any future VIN confusion. http://www.bmwmregistry.com/detail.php?id=5294

GLWS

-Graham

[L_N_Love]

Why would someone go to the trouble to change the Cardomain story? Especially very recently. Seems rather odd.

Its not odd. It is an obvious attempt to hide the truth. It wouldn't last 5 minutes in a court of law.



Title is all clear now with documentation to support.

[rlomba8204]

Tony I don't think anyone is hammering you, this is just some surprising info about something that was much discussed way back when and is not what we thought. I at least, see no misrepresentation on your part. Maybe someone before you acquired it, but not you.

No, no one is hammering you Tony, they are just shitting all over the car you are trying to sell.

Funny, I have been around here for quite a while and while I understand the concerns being raised here, at the same time it seems a lot of folks come out of the closet to bash when this car comes up. Maybe the car is a total POS - I have no idea, but it strikes me as both rude and pointless. And there are plenty of shitboxes sold here, with a questionable history that somehow receive a warm reception. Shows you how subjective some things are.

[L_N_Love]

That E28 is awesome. I would love to have it.

[oldskool]

I can say for sure that Duke has farted in that car.

[Ken H.]

I can say for sure that Duke has farted in that car.

And you were there to take it all in?

[Jeremy]

I can say for sure that Duke has farted in that car.

And you were there to take it all in?

Perhaps now we have the truth behind why the car got re-upholstered.

[tsmall07]

That E28 is awesome. I would love to have it.

+1

I wasn't trying to imply anything about Tony or the car. Just that the cardomain story had changed since I first read it. It being a US car doesn't change my desire for it at all. Also, this is a discussion thread, not a for sale thread. I think some discussion about the car is warranted. Anyone who is interested in the car should have the whole history.

[Karl Grau]

Does anyone have pics of that chicken.

5erFest '04 in San Diego.