Mind Your Jackstands...

[Duke]

I have a set of these 3 ton - http://www.jackxchange.com/products/D-41608.cfm

Features:
"Double lock security system" utilizes two pawls to engage two teeth on the load bar
Rated capacity is per stand - stands are packaged in pairs
Ten ton features heavy gauge welded angle iron legs while three ton and six ton have stamped steel legs
One-piece ductile iron load bar secures load in position
100% American made parts and materials

Other Jack Stand threads -
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=89883
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?p=839788#839788

[rlomba8204]

Yet another example of why I am not a big fan of jackstands. If you are going to do any work that requires you to be underneath a car, the only way to do so safely is with the car on a lift.

[GKLCPA]

--I actually tested my stands and it's quite easy to bump the lever and have the stand drop from it's set height..

Did you test the stands with the car's weight on them?

No, just with my weight on them and it was too easy to bump that lever and loosen the pawl. There's a post over a bimmerforums where a guy inadvertently tripped that lever and the car dropped on him and killed him.

[GKLCPA]

I have a set of these 3 ton - http://www.jackxchange.com/products/D-41608.cfm

Features:
"Double lock security system" utilizes two pawls to engage two teeth on the load bar
Rated capacity is per stand - stands are packaged in pairs
Ten ton features heavy gauge welded angle iron legs while three ton and six ton have stamped steel legs
One-piece ductile iron load bar secures load in position
100% American made parts and materials

Other Jack Stand threads -
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=89883
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?p=839788#839788

Yes. These are what I need or a lift. That EZ lift that is on Rod Paine's site looks good.

[Duke]

--I actually tested my stands and it's quite easy to bump the lever and have the stand drop from it's set height..

Did you test the stands with the car's weight on them?

No, just with my weight on them and it was too easy to bump that lever and loosen the pawl. There's a post over a bimmerforums where a guy inadvertently tripped that lever and the car dropped on him and killed him.

Don't want to get into nastiness here but it is imposable to "trip" the lever with the weight of a vehicle on it. That is IF the jack stand is set properly.

Do this, put your car on one of your jack stands then get your biggest hammer and try to knock the lever loose and have the jack stand drop. I bet you will break the lever off before the jack drops. The weight of the car presses toothed jack shaft against the "paw" and locks it which makes movement impossible.

[bobby in Derby City]

When I get the car situated on the jack stands I always hip check the car from multiple angles.

+1, me too.

+++++


Always hip check too and position hydraulic jack under car too under very slight load near the location I'm working. Jack stands scare me alot when Im under the car and have to support all four corners via jack stands during baselining a car that has been neglected. I try ASAP to get the car where I can support it on ramps at all four corners. For me, that is the most comfortable support technique when a vehicle is in the air. With the M5 Im baselining now, I've finally got the front to a point where it can sit on ramps. The rear was supported under the subframe via jackstand but had to do something else recently to tackle the subframe bushings and diff mount since the rear rocker jack points are not up to snuff anymore. Yes ,I know she's rusty vvvvvvvvvvvvv

[GKLCPA]

--I actually tested my stands and it's quite easy to bump the lever and have the stand drop from it's set height..

Did you test the stands with the car's weight on them?

No, just with my weight on them and it was too easy to bump that lever and loosen the pawl. There's a post over a bimmerforums where a guy inadvertently tripped that lever and the car dropped on him and killed him.

Don't want to get into nastiness here but it is imposable to "trip" the lever with the weight of a vehicle on it. That is IF the jack stand is set properly.

Do this, put your car on one of your jack stands then get your biggest hammer and try to knock the lever loose and have the jack stand drop. I bet you will break the lever off before the jack drops. The weight of the car presses toothed jack shaft against the "paw" and locks it which makes movement impossible.

Who said you're being nasty?

Just the same, I think I prefer to better stands with the pins in them or a lift. Not to suggest those are fail safe either.

[Duke]

Who said you're being nasty?

Just the same, I think I prefer to better stands with the pins in them or a lift. Not to suggest those are fail safe either.

You know how this board works at times

I don't like all the weight on the pin. Who is to say the pin wont succumb to the sheer force? The jack stand and frame are acting on the pin like a press. I feel that the jack stands I have are the safest. Yes, a lift would be best.

[wkohler]

I agree with Duke. I've got a set of Craftsman 3.5 ton stands. They're designed in such a way that when properly loaded, you can't flip the handle. Something that always worried me, too so once the 535 was empty, I gave it a shot. Do dice. The worst part of pulling that car apart was pullin he flywheel. I didn't feel too safe and you'd hear the car slightly move on the stands with all the torque being applied to the bolts (no air tools). That was scary. Not quite like going to the yard though. I've pulled transmissions at the yard with cars supported by steel wheels welded together on dirt. I am very careful under there.

[OcCoupe]

I am very careful under there.

Yeah very careful under there to me means paying someone at the yard to take it off.

[Karl Grau]

I simply do not care for jackstands but if I must use them, I use a LOT of them.

[vinceg101]

I have a lift, Chris and Charles have seen it. It is extremely handy and makes me feel a bit safer working on the car. It is one of those drive on four post lifts with several safety lock outs. the four poster isn't as user handy for the DIY mechanics but they are the best solution for storage/diy mechanic situations. I paid $2,000.00 and it was THE BEST money I have spent. Not only has it made my life easier when it comes to repairing my car as well as detailing; I feel it is also safer than the alternatives, offers more storage and it is much safer than jack stands. I know $2,000.00 is a lot of money especially in these tough times; but it pales in comparison to costly hospital bills, missing work and God forbid dying.

I can attest to this lift: I've used it for simple service and the inadvertent overnight storage .
If I had a space for it, I'd buy one of these in a heartbeat. $2K for such a versatile tool is really nothing when you see what that investment can save you in the long run. Not just in repairs and service, but also for the safety factor and piece of mind.
I've heard of good deals of on used lifts since the down-turn (of course those come with a list of caveats and cautions).

[Mark 88/M5 Houston]

Failing jack stands and ramps have been on my mind lately after reading a story over at bimmerforums about a guy who inadvertently hit a lever on one of the jack stands resulting in the car dropping on him---I actually tested my stands and it's quite easy to bump the lever and have the stand drop from it's set height.. I determined that I'm not gonna get under the car until I get some pin type stands, which don't appear to be available in the auto parts stores so I'm just thinking that I'd rather pay someone for any work that requires me to get fully underneath. I've never been comfortable with that and am even less so now, so that's gonna rule out any DIY project where I have to raise the car other than brake jobs and other stuff where I don't have to go underneath. I've just lost my nerve on this sort of stuff.

Link please?

[GKLCPA]

Failing jack stands and ramps have been on my mind lately after reading a story over at bimmerforums about a guy who inadvertently hit a lever on one of the jack stands resulting in the car dropping on him---I actually tested my stands and it's quite easy to bump the lever and have the stand drop from it's set height.. I determined that I'm not gonna get under the car until I get some pin type stands, which don't appear to be available in the auto parts stores so I'm just thinking that I'd rather pay someone for any work that requires me to get fully underneath. I've never been comfortable with that and am even less so now, so that's gonna rule out any DIY project where I have to raise the car other than brake jobs and other stuff where I don't have to go underneath. I've just lost my nerve on this sort of stuff.

Link please?

It was discussed here as well. Duke provided the link earlier in the comment string. Original stuff is over at bimmerforums:



http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=89883

[davintosh]

I was reading through one of the earlier jack stand threads, and Randy's comment piqued my interest a bit:

... My personal phobia is putting steel jack stands under steel lift points with no wood or rubber in between

While I understand the sentiment -- steel on steel would slip pretty easily -- making it happen is less easy to understand. Most jack stands have contact pads that aren't flat and can usually be positioned to keep things from slipping off them; I would think that putting wood in there would cause more problems than it solves. When I had my e32 up on stands for about a week last month I had two stands under the front frame rails (just behind the front wheels) and two stands under the rear jack points (needed to remove the rear subframe.) The saddles of the jack stands didn't match the jack points exactly, but I was able to get the jack point to drop into the middle of the saddle, and it wasn't going anywhere without the entire jack stand tipping over. I would think that for wood or rubber to be of any help in between the stand's saddle and the jack point, it would have to be shaped to match the contours of both. The rubber might be easier; a chunk of heavy mat that would flex to fit in between & provide more friction...

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand better how to do this stuff well, and safely. Anybody (Randy?) care to elaborate? Photos would be great.

[Mark 88/M5 Houston]

Failing jack stands and ramps have been on my mind lately after reading a story over at bimmerforums about a guy who inadvertently hit a lever on one of the jack stands resulting in the car dropping on him---I actually tested my stands and it's quite easy to bump the lever and have the stand drop from it's set height.. I determined that I'm not gonna get under the car until I get some pin type stands, which don't appear to be available in the auto parts stores so I'm just thinking that I'd rather pay someone for any work that requires me to get fully underneath. I've never been comfortable with that and am even less so now, so that's gonna rule out any DIY project where I have to raise the car other than brake jobs and other stuff where I don't have to go underneath. I've just lost my nerve on this sort of stuff.

Link please?

It was discussed here as well. Duke provided the link earlier in the comment string. Original stuff is over at bimmerforums:



http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=89883

Sorry, I'd missed the original link. After reading through it maybe we should be avoiding creepers. I still prefer sliding around on a big sheet of cardboard when under one.

* So no one will misunderstand I am not making light of the mechanics death.

[oldskool]

And on the right> > >

[twin55]

I prefer 3-points of contact. 2 jack stands (or 3) and a jack if I'm going to be completely under the car. If 1 point fails, there are 2 more that would have to go first.

X2...the jack is a back up.

[mooseheadm5]

I don't like all the weight on the pin. Who is to say the pin wont succumb to the sheer force?

Engineers. Because in double shear even a super crappy 1/2" diameter steel pin would take over 14,000 lbs to yield.

[Duke]

Engineers. Because in double shear even a super crappy 1/2" diameter steel pin would take over 14,000 lbs to yield.

What do you have in your shop Moose?

[mooseheadm5]

I don't have a shop.

[Coldswede]

I was reading through one of the earlier jack stand threads, and Randy's comment piqued my interest a bit:

... My personal phobia is putting steel jack stands under steel lift points with no wood or rubber in between

While I understand the sentiment -- steel on steel would slip pretty easily -- making it happen is less easy to understand. Most jack stands have contact pads that aren't flat and can usually be positioned to keep things from slipping off them; I would think that putting wood in there would cause more problems than it solves. When I had my e32 up on stands for about a week last month I had two stands under the front frame rails (just behind the front wheels) and two stands under the rear jack points (needed to remove the rear subframe.) The saddles of the jack stands didn't match the jack points exactly, but I was able to get the jack point to drop into the middle of the saddle, and it wasn't going anywhere without the entire jack stand tipping over. I would think that for wood or rubber to be of any help in between the stand's saddle and the jack point, it would have to be shaped to match the contours of both. The rubber might be easier; a chunk of heavy mat that would flex to fit in between & provide more friction...

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand better how to do this stuff well, and safely. Anybody (Randy?) care to elaborate? Photos would be great.

Dave, I'm late to the thread but:
As you mentioned steel on steel is slippery, at the temps and pressure we are talking about. Add a bit of oil and grease and an uneven surface and your looking at a precarious support. I ALWAYS slip a soft piece of pine 2X wood, cut width wise to fit the jack stand and about 12" long, between the frame rail or whatever I'm using for a support point. This does several things:
1. It keeps the jack stand from deforming the frame raid or jack point
2. The soft pine will crush a bit and any unevenness will be eliminated by the crushing action
3. Wood against steel does not slip easily,even with some oil present.
4. Wood keeps the soft rustproofing barrier on the bottom of the car from being crushed and cut by the steel to steel contact
5. the wood adds just a bit of height to the car
6. It's the way I was taught and it has stood me in good stead for a long time.

I'm sure someone will vehemently disagree with this, but I guess their rotors warp also.

[davintosh]

Ok, then what did you use here?

[Tammer in Philly]

yea stands are not infallible and i take more then my share of chances, i prefer to kick a wheel and tire under the rocker as back up, that ain't gonna fall over

I do the same thing. Car on stands, leave the jack in place somewhere near where I'm working, and throw a ramp under a tire if they're on the car, or put the wheel/tire under the rocker if they're off the car. You might still get hurt, but at least you'll have a wheel width to not get totally crushed.

Raising a car often is the most time-consuming part of a job. I like to take time to make damn sure it's right. I'm far too handsome to risk messing it up! ;-)

-tammer

[mooseheadm5]

Ok, then what did you use here?

Whatever my brother had lying around his shop.

Of course the car was on one of his 8 lifts.

[wkohler]

Someone should really put something together so we all know how to properly support a car while working on it. We don't want any of our people becoming news stories or statistics!

[greentalks43]

I do not crawl under the car unless it's on jack stands and on a level surface. I learned the hard way when my 533i slipped off the jack stand on a slanted driveway. I wasn't under the car but it was definitely an eye opener to be much more cautious when lifting and lowering a car.

[djazz]

I still have a pair of old two ton stands but they rarely do more than back-up duty or part support like under a tranny or exhaust. Then I have the four ton pair that have a pin lock only. There is no release lever. They serve as extra precaution at the frame rails. My primary stands are six ton monsters from HF. One set has pin locks in addition to the lever.

I also have a set of the pressed one piece screaming yellow/orange ramps that rarely get use, a set of plastic/resin ramps that have a starter pad so the ramp won't slip. Then there is the full length 2x12 ramps that get the most use.

I've had several chock styles over the years but lately I can only find the BMW design.

I always shove the car from different directions trying to make it fall before I get underneath. Timing is everything.

I like the idea of keeping wood between jack, stand, and car.

A lift isn't a guarantee of safety. A high school friend died under one. I do have plans for one though but something else always takes a priority. Hopefully it will happen soon.

I can get the car a couple of feet in the air(high enough to remove the exhaust and tranny) and be more afraid of the pecan tree next to the driveway falling. The annoying part is the time it takes to do it safely. But I still take the precautions. I've shown this pic before but no harm showing it again:

[WilNJ]

Reading threads like this often sends me wandering around sites like BendPak's. I thought the ideal for the home garage would be something like this



http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/specia ... p-6fb.aspx

It sits flush with the floor so it's not in the way but provides enough support to do wheel and suspension service as well as driveline and exhaust access.

But I know alot of people like the 4 post lifts for use as storage, the problem with those is they don't work very well for wheel off work, then I saw these.



http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/4-post-bridge-jacks/

Seems like it would be the best of both worlds, allowing for double height storage without the floor loading issues of a 2 post lift.

[rodpaine]

Speaking of lifts, is it possible that another group buy could be arranged for the EZ lift? Was it Rod Paine that got that one together?

No, wasn't me, but anybody here could contact Boytcho at EZCarlift and see what he's willing to do, for a group buy. I've made it clear what I think of the product, having used it for the past 5 years. Prior to that my system has always been four wheel ramps and four 2-ton locking jack stands, as shown here. Given my 50+ years of working under vehicles and seeing some pretty bad accidents and several deaths, with jacks, lifts and home made crap, that will kill you or leave you seriously handicapped for life!
FWIW,
-Rod