m30b35 turbo project

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

Murfinator is right. On the other side of the scale, a full build project gets really big if you are trying to do everything right the first time. The cost of a "perfect" build expressed in terms of cost of a "good enough" one is an exponential function. Using Murf's cost estimates: a proper build costs $21/hp (assuming a staggering 700 hp is achieved), whereas the "good enough" M106 is only $9/hp, at stock levels. Ironically, they both will have about the same durability, but my guess would be that you could still drive the M106 in traffic, and you could trust the wife, g/f, or grandmom to drive the M106. Maybe not so with Murf's.
Doing it right the first time tends to be less expensive and more rewarding than continually fixing, refixing, replacing parts and troubleshooting and retuning to distraction. I love these cars but not enough to spend 4+ hours per evening underneath them.

"Good enough" never is. "If there's a job worth doing, it's worth doing right." Granted, doing it right is expensive and time consuming but can you afford to do it wrong or 'good enough' repeatedly? I don't have the time or patience.

Tractability was a significant design concern. Primarily this involved clutch selection with the search ending at the SPEC stage 3+ which purportedly will hold the power without breaking your neck. The car originally was equipped with the 4HP22-EH autotragic. Due to it not being a DD it likely won't see much if any traffic (weekend driving and track days) and my wife won't drive it and my grandmother's have passed.
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

cajaka7 wrote:
Nebraska_e28 wrote:x2 on this. Boost your stock motor to 10psi with Megasquirt & you'll be happy to begin with.
clongo wrote: Do it right the first time or don't do it at all.
It appears the general consensus is to stay away from the m106 and boost my engine, which considering my engine has barely over 100k i think thats a good idea. how much would it cost if I wanted to turbo it? would there be a lot of custom fabrication involved or are there relatively inexpensive kits available? would i stay within my 5000k budget if I did everything right? I'm not huge about getting a F*** ton of power atm I want a reliable, fun car thats zippy ... and can beat my friends STI ... (kind of kidding but kind of not :banana: )
There's nothing wrong with the m106, but you're able to work with what you have & achieve good results provided your current motor is healthy. My motor was over 200k when I boosted to 10psi. Still going strong on a good tune & 12psi (thaks Mike). I know it wont last forever like this, but I dont regularly beat the piss out of it either.

cajaka7, do some homework & lots of reading of old threads on the board. This will empower you to ask additional questions stemming from what you've learned. It will also save us from repeating alot of what's out there already.
cajaka7
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Post by cajaka7 »

Nebraska_e28 wrote:
cajaka7 wrote:
Nebraska_e28 wrote:x2 on this. Boost your stock motor to 10psi with Megasquirt & you'll be happy to begin with.
clongo wrote: Do it right the first time or don't do it at all.
It appears the general consensus is to stay away from the m106 and boost my engine, which considering my engine has barely over 100k i think thats a good idea. how much would it cost if I wanted to turbo it? would there be a lot of custom fabrication involved or are there relatively inexpensive kits available? would i stay within my 5000k budget if I did everything right? I'm not huge about getting a F*** ton of power atm I want a reliable, fun car thats zippy ... and can beat my friends STI ... (kind of kidding but kind of not :banana: )
There's nothing wrong with the m106, but you're able to work with what you have & achieve good results provided your current motor is healthy. My motor was over 200k when I boosted to 10psi. Still going strong on a good tune & 12psi (thaks Mike). I know it wont last forever like this, but I dont regularly beat the piss out of it either.

cajaka7, do some homework & lots of reading of old threads on the board. This will empower you to ask additional questions stemming from what you've learned. It will also save us from repeating alot of what's out there already.
I've done a lot of research so far through old treads and your replies (thank you to the people who replied not just said use search function.. I've been doing that) anyway I figured out a rough idea of what I want to do in accordance to an old thread and a friend. I want to put a holset hx40 Turbo on with intercooler, after arp studs, new hg, and mega squirt. How does that sound?
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

cajaka7 wrote:I want to put a holset HX40 Turbo on with intercooler, after arp studs, new hg, and mega squirt. How does that sound?
Sounds like you will need either fabrication skills or lots of money. Also sounds like you need to do more research.

The HX40 is not really the right turbo for your stated goals (too big.) It also doesn't directly fit the 745 manifold or the TCD manifold. You'd have to buy one from Otis, which is a great option for a mani, as he does very good work, but as far as I know he does not sell a kit. Also, you just missed the pair of tubular top mount manifold + HX40 he sold at a huge discount (the mani was mild steel and he is switching to a stainless split pulse.) 666 Fab doesn't make manifolds any more. Your choice is the 735 stuff, Otis or TCD. TCD does the only kit.

Who will fab your intake piping? Will you go with a flipped throttle or stock? Who will do your MS kit? Peter Florence gets over a grand for his because it works and he gives fantastic support. If you don't want to lay out the money, you have to learn how to do it yourself.
cajaka7
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Post by cajaka7 »

mooseheadm5 wrote:
cajaka7 wrote:I want to put a holset HX40 Turbo on with intercooler, after arp studs, new hg, and mega squirt. How does that sound?
Sounds like you will need either fabrication skills or lots of money. Also sounds like you need to do more research.

The HX40 is not really the right turbo for your stated goals (too big.) It also doesn't directly fit the 745 manifold or the TCD manifold. You'd have to buy one from Otis, which is a great option for a mani, as he does very good work, but as far as I know he does not sell a kit. Also, you just missed the pair of tubular top mount manifold + HX40 he sold at a huge discount (the mani was mild steel and he is switching to a stainless split pulse.) 666 Fab doesn't make manifolds any more. Your choice is the 735 stuff, Otis or TCD. TCD does the only kit.

Who will fab your intake piping? Will you go with a flipped throttle or stock? Who will do your MS kit? Peter Florence gets over a grand for his because it works and he gives fantastic support. If you don't want to lay out the money, you have to learn how to do it yourself.
ive decided FI again and gone with my natural instinct of NA. I'm looking for ls1 / ls3 engines. Being as how I've done a lot more research on them I'll be a lot better off. Anyone selling one?
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

cajaka7 wrote:ive decided FI again and gone with my natural instinct of NA. I'm looking for ls1 / ls3 engines. Being as how I've done a lot more research on them I'll be a lot better off. Anyone selling one?
Ask TCD in a few months. Otherwise, wrong forum.
mremingtonwilson
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Post by mremingtonwilson »

cajaka7 wrote:ive decided FI again and gone with my natural instinct of NA. I'm looking for ls1 / ls3 engines. Being as how I've done a lot more research on them I'll be a lot better off. Anyone selling one?
:facepalm: Disapppointment. Best of luck with your build.
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

:blah:
cajaka7
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Post by cajaka7 »

mremingtonwilson wrote:
cajaka7 wrote:ive decided FI again and gone with my natural instinct of NA. I'm looking for ls1 / ls3 engines. Being as how I've done a lot more research on them I'll be a lot better off. Anyone selling one?
:facepalm: Disapppointment. Best of luck with your build.
haha sorry to dissapoint, i figure if i wanted a turbo i can put it on my ls1, then ill be run insane amounts of power. I need reliability, something FI truly can't offer, after talking to a lot of people who saw hard earned thousand go down the drain and months in the shop i've officially decided NA
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

As if an LS transplant into an E24 is going to cheap and easy... :roll:

Good luck with that. :laugh:
mremingtonwilson
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Post by mremingtonwilson »

cajaka7 wrote: haha sorry to dissapoint, i figure if i wanted a turbo i can put it on my ls1, then ill be run insane amounts of power. I need reliability, something FI truly can't offer, after talking to a lot of people who saw hard earned thousand go down the drain and months in the shop i've officially decided NA
I completely understand the reliability thing. I disagree that at your desired power levels that you cannot engineer reliability. Its precisely what BMW did with the M102/M106. And reliability is the primary consideration of my build, actually. Everything else comes after "Can my mom make it to work and back in it?" (No, its not going to be my mom's car, its just what I call the "Maternal Standard of Reliability.") To that end, the first thing my car will do when its built is take a 60 day road trip across all 48 states. I'm sure someone has already done that on a newly minted FI build, but I'm doing it just to prove to myself that it can be done and that the car will handle the grind of daily traffic.

My build will be considerably more expensive than your budgetted $5k (I've budgetted half that for my headers alone), but I've not seen a German car from any year with 400hp go cheap, so if I can keep pace with an e39 M5 or 993 GT2 for $15k all-in, I'll call it a bargain, especially if it doesn't come flying apart. :D

Then again, the M106 was my suggestion to you because, with potentially some TLC up front that you could have afforded, that motor will pull 252 hp for you with strong reliability. Then, as you wanted to (based on funding) you could have upgraded to get to your 300 hp range. You said $5k, so I figured all-in (after trouble shooting, repairs, and uh-ohs.). Those things can really cost more than the build itself (either in time or money, or both), regardless of what you transplant.

On a side note, I'm actually suprised that you can make an LS-1 conversion complete for less than $5k.... :dunno:
cajaka7
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Post by cajaka7 »

mremingtonwilson wrote:
cajaka7 wrote: haha sorry to dissapoint, i figure if i wanted a turbo i can put it on my ls1, then ill be run insane amounts of power. I need reliability, something FI truly can't offer, after talking to a lot of people who saw hard earned thousand go down the drain and months in the shop i've officially decided NA
I completely understand the reliability thing. I disagree that at your desired power levels that you cannot engineer reliability. Its precisely what BMW did with the M102/M106. And reliability is the primary consideration of my build, actually. Everything else comes after "Can my mom make it to work and back in it?" (No, its not going to be my mom's car, its just what I call the "Maternal Standard of Reliability.") To that end, the first thing my car will do when its built is take a 60 day road trip across all 48 states. I'm sure someone has already done that on a newly minted FI build, but I'm doing it just to prove to myself that it can be done and that the car will handle the grind of daily traffic.

My build will be considerably more expensive than your budgetted $5k (I've budgetted half that for my headers alone), but I've not seen a German car from any year with 400hp go cheap, so if I can keep pace with an e39 M5 or 993 GT2 for $15k all-in, I'll call it a bargain, especially if it doesn't come flying apart. :D

Then again, the M106 was my suggestion to you because, with potentially some TLC up front that you could have afforded, that motor will pull 252 hp for you with strong reliability. Then, as you wanted to (based on funding) you could have upgraded to get to your 300 hp range. You said $5k, so I figured all-in (after trouble shooting, repairs, and uh-ohs.). Those things can really cost more than the build itself (either in time or money, or both), regardless of what you transplant.

On a side note, I'm actually suprised that you can make an LS-1 conversion complete for less than $5k.... :dunno:
found an engine for 2600, the trans should run me less then 1300, it's goin to be a slow project, I ran into a not
Of a problem... I bought a 1972 bavaria lol so I'm going step by step. I hope to keep it around 5k for the entire swap, talking to a guy about some cheap home fab engine
Mounts and 2001 corvette headers fit on passenger side as for driver I'll fan it from the stock ones, and to the response above is I want a project that's why I sold my immaculate 1996 m3, cars that need nothing are boring lol
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