My weekend with the 850Ci - long

[waxonwaxoff]

Mine is sweet as hell.

Looks like fun.

[rlomba8204]

850s have always been gorgeous cars, and the one Tim drove seems to have all the right "ingredients" you would look for in one you might purchase second-hand. His recommendation of the car speaks volumes.

All of this other "stuff" about them being costly to maintain or what-not, has always struck me as a lot of BS, as it has with the 750. That's not to say these cars ever have been or are Camry-like in terms of running cost, but that's not the point of them. These were cars designed for people making high six figure incomes, at a minimum. (To illustrate, I remember working while I was in law school as a summer clerk at a big law firm. Partner in charge of the securities and corporate practice had a beach house and a new 750. He pulled down about $2 million a year, 15 -20 years ago. That's the coin I am talking about here -- about $40k a week, before taxes. Trust me when I tell you he wasn't concerned about and he didn't notice the cost of the fuel or the service on the car.) Folks driving 8 series BMWs brand new are the kinds of people who have second homes or beach homes and are multi-millionaires. For these people, the fact that the V12 could develop expensive problems was a non-issue because a multi-thousand dollar service or repair bill is a non-issue financially -- it would be like you or I getting the weekly groceries.

The real problem with these cars are not the cars. It is that with the wide availability of financing and leasing, these cars quickly made their way to people who had no business owning them financially. Again, call me a jerk if you will but it is what it is and I don't own an 8 series, btw, for a reason. Somehow, people have become stupid enough to think that if you can somehow swing a lease payment then you can afford the car. It's why you see so many high-end cars parked in middle class neighborhoods. It's fine, it's their call, but these are the people who then whine and complain when they find out that, geez Louise, a BMW V12 is actually an expensive car to run. Who woulda thunk it? It is also why, btw, that despite the fact that the big banks have always been SOBs (my father's advice was always to stay away from banks), we had a financial crisis -- too many people have no sense of what is, or is not, appropriate financially, so they sign up for mortgages on 4000 square foot homes when they are making a fraction of the income that traditionally would be required to own such a home. Then they want to blame "Wall Street", or a politician, or someone else. They should look in a mirror. The banks have always been thieves, but the American consumer, in the "Democracy in America" vein, has historically been better than that. Something changed, not sure why. But I digress -- apologies.

So, to the original point of this thread: this is an 8 series that now that it is fully depreciated and mechancially sorted would be a car that a knowledgeable enthusiast could own and needn't be a millionaire to own. That doesn't mean it's cheap to own or easy to work on. But that's not the point of an 850.

[Duke]

I took an 850i for a test drive in Germany. Was a local BMW dealer and the price of the car was ~$10,000 at the time. I immediate hit the Autobahn and took it up to 130 MPH which was effortless. The car did not accelerate as fast as I had imagined but is sure cruised nice.

Did not buy it (Euro Spec) but enjoyed the experiance.

[carnutdallas]

850s have always been gorgeous cars, and the one Tim drove seems to have all the right "ingredients" you would look for in one you might purchase second-hand. His recommendation of the car speaks volumes.

All of this other "stuff" about them being costly to maintain or what-not, has always struck me as a lot of BS, as it has with the 750. That's not to say these cars ever have been or are Camry-like in terms of running cost, but that's not the point of them. These were cars designed for people making high six figure incomes, at a minimum. (To illustrate, I remember working while I was in law school as a summer clerk at a big law firm. Partner in charge of the securities and corporate practice had a beach house and a new 750. He pulled down about $2 million a year, 15 -20 years ago. That's the coin I am talking about here -- about $40k a week, before taxes. Trust me when I tell you he wasn't concerned about and he didn't notice the cost of the fuel or the service on the car.) Folks driving 8 series BMWs brand new are the kinds of people who have second homes or beach homes and are multi-millionaires. For these people, the fact that the V12 could develop expensive problems was a non-issue because a multi-thousand dollar service or repair bill is a non-issue financially -- it would be like you or I getting the weekly groceries.

The real problem with these cars are not the cars. It is that with the wide availability of financing and leasing, these cars quickly made their way to people who had no business owning them financially. Again, call me a jerk if you will but it is what it is and I don't own an 8 series, btw, for a reason. Somehow, people have become stupid enough to think that if you can somehow swing a lease payment then you can afford the car. It's why you see so many high-end cars parked in middle class neighborhoods. It's fine, it's their call, but these are the people who then whine and complain when they find out that, geez Louise, a BMW V12 is actually an expensive car to run. Who woulda thunk it? It is also why, btw, that despite the fact that the big banks have always been SOBs (my father's advice was always to stay away from banks), we had a financial crisis -- too many people have no sense of what is, or is not, appropriate financially, so they sign up for mortgages on 4000 square foot homes when they are making a fraction of the income that traditionally would be required to own such a home. Then they want to blame "Wall Street", or a politician, or someone else. They should look in a mirror. But I digress -- apologies.

So, to the original point of this thread: this is an 8 series that now that it is fully depreciated and mechancially sorted would be a car that a knowledgeable enthusiast could own and needn't be a millionaire to own. That doesn't mean it's cheap to own or easy to work on. But that's not the point of an 850.

AMEN!

It is sad what some cars will depreciate to. BUT the cost of repair and maintenance are still that of a $75K, $100K or even $200K car. Just because you can buy it, does not mean you can afford it. I get a real chuckle out of some of my high net worth guys complaining about the repair cost. I know the economy has effected everyone, but come on, you have to pay to to play. The guys that own aircraft, gladly come in and pay our service bills because they are a fraction of their aircraft habit.

I chose my cars based on my ability to service and repair. I really stretched on my e90 and hope that the records and care that were documented pay off with some inexpensive ownership for a few years, but the day is coming when it may be painful to my modest income. Hopefully next year will be as planned - I see GOD laughing now.....

A quick note, after 20 years of writing service, my quick and dirty number for auto repair and maintenance is a as follows:

10% of the cost of the car when new is what one can figure at any one time for a major repair $80k = $8K for something serious and that could double quickly. Now that can also be one years worth of maintenance as well.....the other part of the equation is: it will cost 5% of the cost of the car when new per year in maintenance. So figure $4k a year to drive a formerly $80K car.

These are rough guides, but I tell you, the numbers add up for my clients when I calculate cost off ownership for them and what they have spent over the years with me and others. And do not get me started on a Bentley or Rolls. We had a client by a used 2006 Bentley Azure for just over $100K - deal?? Then spent $65K in service and repair for the past 3 years. He sold the car just after Christmas for just over $60K. Ya have to pays to be a playa!!

[Tammer in Philly]

I loved reading this.

I really like the 8 series exterior. I'm conceptually interested in an 850Ci manual, and they are certainly affordable to acquire. The thought of a twin-turbo M70 with a megasquirt appeals to me very much.

It seems that very few of the E31 850Ci 6 speeds had heated seats, which seems strange to me. Those are a requirement for my geography. Also, I do worry about the electronic doodads on the car. I wonder if the climate head and controllers are rebuilt by programma or others? I beleive E31s suffer from dead pixels in the clusters, which would be no fun to deal with either.

Ultimately, my A4 wagon is just so damn practical that it's really hard justifying getting into an 850. The 850 would never be a track toy (and i have one anyway).

But everytime i see or think about one.. i wander back to the idea of a 6 speed bi-turbo V12 coupe ;)

If you ever have the need to drive across your state east-to-west, an 8-series is just about the ideal vehicle. Last time I made that drive, I didn't see a single police vehicle on the 350 miles of I-94 in ND. I felt I was being quietly encouraged to speed (and averaged 94 mph through the state including a gas stop).

-tammer

[Tammer in Philly]

A quick note, after 20 years of writing service, my quick and dirty number for auto repair and maintenance is a as follows:

10% of the cost of the car when new is what one can figure at any one time for a major repair $80k = $8K for something serious and that could double quickly. Now that can also be one years worth of maintenance as well.....the other part of the equation is: it will cost 5% of the cost of the car when new per year in maintenance. So figure $4k a year to drive a formerly $80K car.

These are rough guides, but I tell you, the numbers add up for my clients when I calculate cost off ownership for them and what they have spent over the years with me and others.

Those numbers are probably pretty good if you're paying for labor. Maybe cut them in half for DIY. It fits; our E28s were $30k-35k new (more for the M5) in the '80s, and now we have the $2k rule for the first year of purchase used. For DIY, older BMWs are surprisingly cheap to run because parts are available and generally inexpensive--Toyota parts cost quite a bit more, even. But if you buy a 1980s Porsche, while they can be reliable, they will cost much more to keep in good shape (especially if there's a turbo involved). And anything higher-end than that, forget it. With Maserati Quattroportes now widely available for ~$30k, it's tempting, but service on its Ferrari engine will not be cheap to run.

-tammer

[Ken H.]

While I appled the following metric to my '67 911s, it merits some consideration w/r/t an M5:
The Porsche flat-6 2 liter was air cooled. Not terribly far removed from a Continental 6.
I based maintenance on the 911 no so much in terms of miles driven, but rather on Hobbs time. So oil changes, close once-overs every 25 engine-hours. Considering I was doing, ahem, spirited commutes between the West Coast and Colorado every other weekend, paying attention made sense.
When I looked at the numbers, the outlays for maintenance on the 911 were very close to that for a Cessna 175, if I discounted what was spent on the Cessna's avionics.

That being said, the $2k/yr bill for an S38-powered rig isn't far off the mark if one stays on top of all the details and doesn't try to let things slide.

[rmiddendorf]

While I appled the following metric to my '67 911s, it merits some consideration w/r/t an M5:
The Porsche flat-6 2 liter was air cooled. Not terribly far removed from a Continental 6.
I based maintenance on the 911 no so much in terms of miles driven, but rather on Hobbs time. So oil changes, close once-overs every 25 engine-hours. Considering I was doing, ahem, spirited commutes between the West Coast and Colorado every other weekend, paying attention made sense.
When I looked at the numbers, the outlays for maintenance on the 911 were very close to that for a Cessna 175, if I discounted what was spent on the Cessna's avionics.

That being said, the $2k/yr bill for an S38-powered rig isn't far off the mark if one stays on top of all the details and doesn't try to let things slide.

We're sliding off topic here but generally I consider any 80s vintage BMW to require a budget of $3k in maintenance per year. I think that's a pretty safe number. Perhaps a little more for the ///M cars ($4k) and less if you're doing the repairs yourself and can save the labor.

I put $6500 into Bandit the first year and that was on top of the purchase price. So far for the most part that has gotten me through two years. I'm doing a bunch of nickel and dime stuff now, but nothing huge.

[Ken H.]

Tend to agree w/ carnutdallas about the "5%" metric on maintenance. But please to note the following:
That number needs tyo be applied to the original MSRP sticker price. Not the final Bill of Sale @ the dealer. The number also needs to be taken in 1988 dollars.
MSRP on an M5 was, IIRC, around $50,700 at the time. So around $2500 1988 dollars for routine maintenance, depending on the usage pattern.

Fast forward to 2012. That $2500 has grown via inflation to around $7500 or so. Parts and labor have gone up in price. The car has depreciated. So what else is new? The clown what now owns said M5 thought he was getting jobbed on it @ 5K from the 4th owner. Lawd Knowz what kind of service records or DIY maintenance was done. So the $7500/yr maintenance tab may very well escalate as all the deferred maintenance comes a-knockin'. Sorry about the pun . . .

Bottom line: If you couldn't afford the car when it was new, and you couldn't afford to buy it now, new, in current dollars, you have no business getting involved with it. Another way to look at it: can you, right now, step up for a new F10 and maintain it per factory specs?
If not, GTFO.

[L_N_Love]

$4K+ a year on an M5? What are y'all spending that on?

[cgraff]

Tend to agree w/ carnutdallas about the "5%" metric on maintenance. But please to note the following:
That number needs tyo be applied to the original MSRP sticker price. Not the final Bill of Sale @ the dealer. The number also needs to be taken in 1988 dollars.
MSRP on an M5 was, IIRC, around $50,700 at the time. So around $2500 1988 dollars for routine maintenance, depending on the usage pattern.

Fast forward to 2012. That $2500 has grown via inflation to around $7500 or so. Parts and labor have gone up in price. The car has depreciated. So what else is new? The clown what now owns said M5 thought he was getting jobbed on it @ 5K from the 4th owner. Lawd Knowz what kind of service records or DIY maintenance was done. So the $7500/yr maintenance tab may very well escalate as all the deferred maintenance comes a-knockin'. Sorry about the pun . . .

Bottom line: If you couldn't afford the car when it was new, and you couldn't afford to buy it now, new, in current dollars, you have no business getting involved with it. Another way to look at it: can you, right now, step up for a new F10 and maintain it per factory specs?
If not, GTFO.

Although I agree in principle with the rules of thumb that have been put forth here, (aka $2k rule, 5% of purchase price, etc), I have to add one major point. These are static analyses, and that we should consider more accurately share of type of costs over the lifetime of the car.

Pure and simple, any analysis has to start first with the expected ownership life. If you plan on keeping your car 3 years, or 30 years. Also, it has to take into account the age of car at purchase.

People should look at cars as costs. Let's take the simple example from Ray: the leased new car and keeping up with the Jones's.

If I make $10k a month, and allocate $1k/month to transportation, and I need two new(er) cars to keep (wife and husband family), then I must consider these costs:
- fuel and insurance and registration fees
- maintenance/repair
- cost of purchase/finance
- depreciation

In this example, and living in NJ, let's say my insurance and fuel costs are $6k annually, that's $250/month. That leaves $750/month, and let's say I lease, zero money down, two BMWs (with no cost maintenance and repairs under warranty to keep this simple), that means I can afford a $400 and a $350 lease. That basically equates to a 328 with some options and maybe a 128 or 135. One is a $40k+ car, the other is ~$30-35k car. With a lease, we're combining depreciation with cost of financing. Note that this monthly cost is ~1% of initial MSRP


From that point on in the cars lifetime, you're trading in depreciation for repairs and maintenance costs. If and only if you are a handy DIYer, will you save money in the long-run on this 'trade'.

Now, if you can afford keeping a new E9x/F3x or E8x/F2x in pristine condition (i.e. lease it for 3 years), then in theory you ought to be able to do the same for an older one (i.e. buy a 10 or 20 year old one), given the above trade. You're only advantage is the labor costs potentially, which you can either keep (save), or utilize to purchase a more upscale car (i.e. fix/repair your own 5-series for the same long term costs as a new 3-series or used 3-series but using a mechanic).

This result is supported by Edmunds' data on True Cost of Ownership for used cars vs. new cars. There is a slight decrease in TCO for the same car bought 3 years old vs. new, but then TCO tends to flatten out irregardless of age.

Also, from my personal experience in keeping nice older cars (i.e. out of warranty), I can attest to this.

My 1988 M5 I spent just under $200/month on maintenance and repair AND 'restoration' costs, AND accounting for a sale price higher than purchase price. At first you might think, hey that's great. But it was all DIY (except body work). And it doesn't count gas or insurance (I drove sparingly, so gas was <$50/month and same with insurance). Secondly, I did not lose any money due to depreciation. What I did, was make a bit of money up on purchase side/sale side, because I did things to improve/restore it. Figure that it would be $400/month easily if I had the work done elsewhere, or I had driven it more. This relates reasonably to the 1%/month rule of initial purchase price ($50k in 1988).

I could go on with other cars I've owned...but am short on time. Suffice to say, it's not much dissimilar.

As for inflation, I would argue that is not a good indicator, since adjusted for inflation, today's 3 series are slightly better than yesteryear's, and you get the benefit of better technology. It's not a straight apples:apples comparison.

Plus, if true, I'd be spending $600/month on the E28 M5, as per the above post (which I did not). It could be argued, however, that that $600/month is for non-DIY work, but even if true, I'd say my 1%/month rule is more accurate (i.e. trading depreciation for repairs/maintenance as a TCO measure).

-Chris

[Tammer in Philly]

Tend to agree w/ carnutdallas about the "5%" metric on maintenance. But please to note the following:
That number needs tyo be applied to the original MSRP sticker price. Not the final Bill of Sale @ the dealer. The number also needs to be taken in 1988 dollars.
MSRP on an M5 was, IIRC, around $50,700 at the time. So around $2500 1988 dollars for routine maintenance, depending on the usage pattern.

Fast forward to 2012. That $2500 has grown via inflation to around $7500 or so. Parts and labor have gone up in price. The car has depreciated. So what else is new? The clown what now owns said M5 thought he was getting jobbed on it @ 5K from the 4th owner. Lawd Knowz what kind of service records or DIY maintenance was done. So the $7500/yr maintenance tab may very well escalate as all the deferred maintenance comes a-knockin'. Sorry about the pun . . . ;)

Bottom line: If you couldn't afford the car when it was new, and you couldn't afford to buy it now, new, in current dollars, you have no business getting involved with it. Another way to look at it: can you, right now, step up for a new F10 and maintain it per factory specs?
If not, GTFO.

That's asinine. Those numbers make sense for a full resto, $7500/year for four years and you can build yourself a brand new E28 M5. How the hell are you spending $7500/year in 2012 dollars on maintaining and E28? Building Lucifer's Hammer is NOT maintenance. My E34 is a total Frankencar. It's cost me $1500 since purchase 3 years ago, and needs maybe another couple hundred $$ here and there to address very minor issues. I could make it perfect for $1200, which includes replacing a lot of parts that are totally serviceable now. I could make it exactly what I want for $8k, which includes a TCD kit and far better dampers than it has currently. I guess another grand or two to address its minor paint issues. $7500/year is project car/restoration money, not maintenance (even excellent maintenance).

In Chris's terms, I tend to view things by cost/mile, and without including purchase price my E34 has cost me ~$0.30/mile since purchase all-in. That's registration, inspections, fuel, insurance, maintenance & repair. When you figure that a new BMW depreciates more than $1/mile for the first couple years under typical use, one can see that the used car is indeed cheaper (but you sacrifice other things: time, features, etc.).

-tammer

[m-racer]

I talked with the owner of the 850Ci (subject of this thread). He is going to sell the car. I think 18.5 is the magic number. Seems like a gift to me, given the 6k in wheels and brakes, new tranny, paint, and condition. If anyone is seriously interested, let me know and I will put you in touch with him.

[cgraff]

Tend to agree w/ carnutdallas about the "5%" metric on maintenance. But please to note the following:
That number needs tyo be applied to the original MSRP sticker price. Not the final Bill of Sale @ the dealer. The number also needs to be taken in 1988 dollars.
MSRP on an M5 was, IIRC, around $50,700 at the time. So around $2500 1988 dollars for routine maintenance, depending on the usage pattern.

Fast forward to 2012. That $2500 has grown via inflation to around $7500 or so. Parts and labor have gone up in price. The car has depreciated. So what else is new? The clown what now owns said M5 thought he was getting jobbed on it @ 5K from the 4th owner. Lawd Knowz what kind of service records or DIY maintenance was done. So the $7500/yr maintenance tab may very well escalate as all the deferred maintenance comes a-knockin'. Sorry about the pun . . .

Bottom line: If you couldn't afford the car when it was new, and you couldn't afford to buy it now, new, in current dollars, you have no business getting involved with it. Another way to look at it: can you, right now, step up for a new F10 and maintain it per factory specs?
If not, GTFO.

That's asinine. Those numbers make sense for a full resto, $7500/year for four years and you can build yourself a brand new E28 M5. How the hell are you spending $7500/year in 2012 dollars on maintaining and E28? Building Lucifer's Hammer is NOT maintenance. My E34 is a total Frankencar. It's cost me $1500 since purchase 3 years ago, and needs maybe another couple hundred $$ here and there to address very minor issues. I could make it perfect for $1200, which includes replacing a lot of parts that are totally serviceable now. I could make it exactly what I want for $8k, which includes a TCD kit and far better dampers than it has currently. I guess another grand or two to address its minor paint issues. $7500/year is project car/restoration money, not maintenance (even excellent maintenance).

In Chris's terms, I tend to view things by cost/mile, and without including purchase price my E34 has cost me ~$0.30/mile since purchase all-in. That's registration, inspections, fuel, insurance, maintenance & repair. When you figure that a new BMW depreciates more than $1/mile for the first couple years under typical use, one can see that the used car is indeed cheaper (but you sacrifice other things: time, features, etc.).

-tammer

Let's sum the maintenance/wear costs for an E28 M5 driven 15k per year (Dealer service pricing):

2 oil changes: $200
Brake flush: $200
Alignment: $200
Coolant flush (annual): $200
Trans/diff fluid (annual/15k): $400
Plugs: $300-400
T-balancing and valve adjustment: $800 (5 hrs worth of labor, basically)
Tires ($900 every 3 years, including M&B): $300
Brakes (~$1600 every 3 years): $550
O2 sensor every 3 years: $100

Not including repairs, I'm up to $3350.

Add in suspension and cooling system, and any repairs and that could be anywhere from $0 to $5000/year from a dealer.

Still....$7500 does not it make for ROUTINE maintenance. Even with crazy northeast labor rates.

[Tammer in Philly]

Let's sum the maintenance/wear costs for an E28 M5 driven 15k per year (Dealer service pricing) [independent] {DIY}

2 oil changes: $200 [$150] {$80}
Brake flush: $200 [$80] {$10}
Alignment: $200 [$160] {$--}
Coolant flush (annual): $200 [$120] {$30}
Trans/diff fluid (annual/15k): $400 [$250?] {$40} (by the way, I do these at 40k miles)
Plugs: $300-400 SERIOUSLY? [$240 max] {$70}
T-balancing and valve adjustment: $800 (5 hrs worth of labor, basically) [$500 (assume any shop knowing how to do this will charge $100/hr or more) {$100 (assumes you buy some gauges/tools/shims and use several times)}
Tires ($900 every 3 years, including M&B): $300 same
Brakes (~$1600 every 3 years): $550 [$200] {$120}
O2 sensor every 3 years: $100 [$100] {$50}

Not including repairs, I'm up to $3350. [$2100] {$800}

I figure that, DIY, you're looking at 18-20 hours/year to handle that list. Suspension is easily within the extra $1200/year you have left over; figure $1k-$1.5k in suspension parts every 100k miles.

-tammer

[Ken H.]

While it obviously doesn't show up on an annual basis, planning on funding things like a clutch and a radiator perhaps an alternator come into the picture.
That 5%/$2K or whatever metric you choose works out over longer periods of time, and tends to be "back-weighted."
I've looked at the maintenance records on my vehicles beside the M5, and the numbers tend to track the 5%/$2k measures fairly well.
The number--whether it includes shop labor rates or you can DIY--is going to vary year by year. So looked at another way, if you beat the numbers in one or two years, in another you are likely to get hit heavily.

[rlomba8204]

Two thoughts:

Ken is a numbers guy by trade so to speak, so he understands math and different ways to look at a problem with numbers.

Second, how many people here have owned an M5 for longer, and are the original owner of the car? I am going to guess not many, if any.

Point is that I don't know what the right number is, but I would not be so quick to dismiss the thoughts of a guy who has owned and driven an E28 M5 for almost 25 years.

Not trying to argue. Just my .02.

And back to the original topic, $18k - $19k for this car is definitely a fair price given all the work.

[MShimon]

Just to add a bit of more data.

Factoring in everything I've done to my M5 excluding purchase price, my cost/mile equates to $0.35/mile over close to 5 years and 43k miles. This also includes a pretty large bodywork bill for rust.

[Matt]

If you ever have the need to drive across your state east-to-west, an 8-series is just about the ideal vehicle. Last time I made that drive, I didn't see a single police vehicle on the 350 miles of I-94 in ND. I felt I was being quietly encouraged to speed (and averaged 94 mph through the state including a gas stop).

-tammer

I do that drive by myself a couple times a year. I've got friends who are south of around marker 80. Sometimes I take I-94, but lately i've taken it just as far as Bismarck, and then taken state highways to finish the 2nd half of the journey.

And yes, I've thought specifically of that drive for when I'd enjoy an E31. It is on that drive that I make my yearly appointment with Vmax (stock limiter) on my A4. I expect that on a modified 850 I might just be too timid to try it

The thing about doing it in an 850 is that typically on that drive, I have a fair bit of long-cased guns with me, and need to keep at least one medium cooler in the trunk. It seems that 850s could be had with the ski-sack pass through, and so i could get the long-guns in the car uncased, but unless i had full fold down seats (which the E31 lacks, IIRC), it would be quite impractical compared to the A4 wagon.

Also, about 20 miles per trip are spent entirely on dirt/mud/gravel roads, in winter time. Seems like unfair treatment to an E31

[Tammer in Philly]

While it obviously doesn't show up on an annual basis, planning on funding things like a clutch and a radiator perhaps an alternator come into the picture.
That 5%/$2K or whatever metric you choose works out over longer periods of time, and tends to be "back-weighted."
I've looked at the maintenance records on my vehicles beside the M5, and the numbers tend to track the 5%/$2k measures fairly well.
The number--whether it includes shop labor rates or you can DIY--is going to vary year by year. So looked at another way, if you beat the numbers in one or two years, in another you are likely to get hit heavily.

Fair enough. Another reason to buy used, I guess. Buy a good car, keep it in good shape, sell it before major work comes due. Like Chris, I bought an M5, drove it awhile, put some money in to maintenance and repairs, and sold it for the purchase price + what I put in. Not bad at all to own an M5 for a period for the cost of insurance, tags, and fuel.

I do budget for track car maintenance in a similar way. Amortized cost of motor rebuild, brake rebuilds, replacement transmission, tires, etc. on a per-weekend timeline. When you factor all that stuff in and divide by typical track time in a weekend, it comes out to somewhere between $5-$8/lap.

I try very hard not to think about that number, ever.

-tammer

[Ken H.]

I do budget for track car maintenance in a similar way. Amortized cost of motor rebuild, brake rebuilds, replacement transmission, tires, etc. on a per-weekend timeline. When you factor all that stuff in and divide by typical track time in a weekend, it comes out to somewhere between $5-$8/lap.

I try very hard not to think about that number, ever.

-tammer

So drive moar lapz, dude !

[bhopp]

Alignment: $200
Coolant flush (annual): $200
Plugs: $300-400
Tires ($900 every 3 years, including M&B): $300

These prices seems pretty ludicrous to me. $200 for an alignment and $200 for a coolant flush? WTF

[Tammer in Philly]

I do budget for track car maintenance in a similar way. Amortized cost of motor rebuild, brake rebuilds, replacement transmission, tires, etc. on a per-weekend timeline. When you factor all that stuff in and divide by typical track time in a weekend, it comes out to somewhere between $5-$8/lap.

I try very hard not to think about that number, ever.

-tammer

So drive moar lapz, dude ! :D

That's the Catch-22. Drive faster = more laps = lower $/lap. But making the car faster doubles all the numbers.

-tammer

[Ken H.]

http://www.fakeposters.com/posters/financial-planning/

[wkohler]

That poster only reminds me how ugly the F50 was.

[Ken H.]

That's the Catch-22. Making the car faster doubles all the numbers.

-tammer

Which is why my analysis is a conservative one.

[Ken H.]

That poster only reminds me how ugly the F50 was.

Which is why the wench will have nothing to do with you.

[m-racer]

Maintenance Cost Theorists, Cost Analysts and New MathWizards of all sorts. Why not start your own thread? You certainly have enough content

[rmiddendorf]

Maintenance Cost Theroists. Why not start your own thread? You certainly have enough content

I think we're done. Sorry.

[oldskool]

As you gents see, this is why automobiles are used to launder small money. Real estate plays a close second for "losing" some cash but there's all that lawyerin' and surveying to be done and too many people get involved. .
I'm still thinking about starting a "automotive restoration church" but haven't found the right accountant. . .yet.