Coming in....advise on potential set-up? (newer dyno #s!)

[T_C_D]

I dynoed the red car at TAG in 2006.

[iXer]

You see how smooth and calm the MAT graph is and how bad the CLT is? I'm not saying that's the reason for your very erratic pulse-width but you should really look over both the grounding of the CLT sensor (and maybe others) and disable all kinds of enrichments/enleanments. It's wrong and you should NOT be wasting dyno time with obvious errors spooking your results.

[George]

-how are you hitting 100 + throttle%? Might want to look into that.

-what type of accel enrich are you using?

[FirstFives Dictator]

I think he needs some more VE tuning and work on AE.

Set your decel fuel amount to 97 or 98. maybe consider TPS based, as MAP based is a little noisy

You've got MAP based AE zero'd out (which is ok for dyno but kind of a pain to drive). If you switch to TPS or blend, your TPS based pw are too large, so make them much much smaller

I don't have a current MSQ so this is what I think you still have in the box

[Scottinva]

Why are your TP values so crazy?

[turbodan]

I run 100% TPS based AE. It drives just fine. MAP based AE tends to cause large PW fluctuations under boost. Just look at the MAPDot plot in MegaLogViewer. Theres more activity under boost than there is during normal acceleration events.

[Jared S]

I just did some datalogging recently and my CLT looks choppy like that. I'm using the factory wiring harness so whats the solution to cleaning up any grounding issues? Where is the factory coolant temp sensor ground location......in that group of brown wires grounded to the cylinder head? There also seems to be lots of noise in my TPS signal since I have to have my TPSdot threshold set to 100 %/s to prevent any false accel enrichments to occur without touching the gas pedal. My understanding is that you should be able to set the TPSdot threshold to around 20 %/s with no issues.

[turbodan]

I just did some datalogging recently and my CLT looks choppy like that. I'm using the factory wiring harness so whats the solution to cleaning up any grounding issues? Where is the factory coolant temp sensor ground location......in that group of brown wires grounded to the cylinder head? There also seems to be lots of noise in my TPS signal since I have to have my TPSdot threshold set to 100 %/s to prevent any false accel enrichments to occur without touching the gas pedal. My understanding is that you should be able to set the TPSdot threshold to around 20 %/s with no issues.

The coolant signal often looks noisy on a datalog. This is usually due to the scale of the plot. If its only showing a five or ten degree range, the fluctuations will seem to be much larger than they are. The sensor grounds to the engine through the body of the sensor. The stock harness should ground to the engine as well, as is the case with mine. I have no issues with ground offsets in that configuration.

For TPSDot enrichments I have the threshold set at 4%/sec. Its just above the noise and still sensitive enough to pick up normal roll on conditions. Since the signal from the TPS is based on a reference voltage, its not really sensitive to noise or offsets. If you're not getting a clean signal its probably the TPS itself. 20%/sec would be useless unless you're stomping on the pedal.

Also consider lag factors. There are some signals that can benefit from a little smoothing. I use a lot of smoothing on my coolant temp, battery voltage, a little lag on my MAP, TPS and IAT signals and none at all for my RPM signal.

[Jared S]

I took another look at my datalog and the coolant temp is fine. It's just a scaling thing that makes it look choppy. As for my TPSdot threshold, I'm not sure what's going on there. with it set to 100% I still get accel enrichments the second I blip the throttle the accel LED lights up. If I set the TPSdot threshold to say 40% then the LED will flick on every once in awhile at idle causing erratic AFR's.

[e30-m30_kid89]

I took another look at my datalog and the coolant temp is fine. It's just a scaling thing that makes it look choppy. As for my TPSdot threshold, I'm not sure what's going on there. with it set to 100% I still get accel enrichments the second I blip the throttle the accel LED lights up. If I set the TPSdot threshold to say 40% then the LED will flick on every once in awhile at idle causing erratic AFR's.

That's the same reaosn why i turned off AE. I never wanted to use map enrich its just that my TPS is so damn noisy kinda making it hard to tune AE. I'll work on that..

[Scottinva]

No ae? There is no way that car runs right.

[FirstFives Dictator]

Even though you have MAP-dot AE ms set to 0, you are still getting decel events from MAP noise.
When you go back, set decel amount to 100%

In fact you should retune with it off as VE Analyzer is probably throwing out a lot of records currently because of decel events

[e30-m30_kid89]

Even though you have MAP-dot AE ms set to 0, you are still getting decel events from MAP noise.
When you go back, set decel amount to 100%

In fact you should retune with it off as VE Analyzer is probably throwing out a lot of records currently because of decel events

I've been retuning it, So far so good I think. How does the PW and DC% look now? This is with Map-based AE off and 100% TPS based(zeroed out). I noticed right away the car is a lot smoother between shifts and i can revmatch A LOT easier. I also made another big change that I won't mention yet until I go back and see a BIG improvement on the dyno which may be next week/weekend. I also started to use 94 octane that is supposedly E10 so we'll see how that helps too.

[Scottinva]

12 afr seems like too much for the boost i'm seeing. You'd prob benefit from dialing it to 12.5 or so.

[bornagain]

looking better but still way to rich in the top end with afrs at 11:1. Whats with the instantaneous drop in CLT? thats weird. And what injectors are you using at 91% duty cycle up top, if you lean that area out a bit you will make more power and not tax your injectors so much. And you still havent re-calibrated your TPS, you need to do that ass swell.

The E10 is great stuff, i run it too but havent completly tuned for it, as it isnt everywhere, but keep in mind there is "up to 10% ethanol in the gas" that is the other reason why i wont tune for it cause i have found sometimes it runs better on it then other times and i think its cause its not directly metered. The other things about it is you will want it slightly richer with it in but not by a large amount. i think with my math it works that stoich with e10 is closer to 14.2:1 if i did it right. It does help with pre ignition too. I had my table a bit aggressive and i put that in and its nice and smooth power. Like you i still have to work on the upper rpm range for spark timing as power drops off way to quick and it feels like you are pushing the mule after about 5000 rpm. I rarly high redline in my car even with out a tach as it doesnt seem to help anything.

[e30-m30_kid89]

looking better but still way to rich in the top end with afrs at 11:1. Whats with the instantaneous drop in CLT? thats weird. And what injectors are you using at 91% duty cycle up top, if you lean that area out a bit you will make more power and not tax your injectors so much. And you still havent re-calibrated your TPS, you need to do that ass swell.

The E10 is great stuff, i run it too but havent completly tuned for it, as it isnt everywhere, but keep in mind there is "up to 10% ethanol in the gas" that is the other reason why i wont tune for it cause i have found sometimes it runs better on it then other times and i think its cause its not directly metered. The other things about it is you will want it slightly richer with it in but not by a large amount. i think with my math it works that stoich with e10 is closer to 14.2:1 if i did it right. It does help with pre ignition too. I had my table a bit aggressive and i put that in and its nice and smooth power. Like you i still have to work on the upper rpm range for spark timing as power drops off way to quick and it feels like you are pushing the mule after about 5000 rpm. I rarly high redline in my car even with out a tach as it doesnt seem to help anything.

I'm working on that at the moment, the high RPM richness. I've got it a bit leaned out but i'm going to add a touch bit of fuel to get the afrs as close and rock solid to 12:1afr as I can. It's going to take some trial and error as i'm doing that section by hand, and its hard to street tune at the top of 4th at 5000-6500rpm

I'm using Sunoco 94 octane which I think is blended with e10 while other stations like Esso have like you say "up to 5 -10% ethanol"

Again for my CLT its most likely the sensor, I'm using a stock harness and the grounds are original, all i did was wire the CLT input to MS. I have another blue sensor from a E36, i'll check realoem to see if they're the same.

Scottinva, 12:5 is maybe ideal but I don't mind being a bit extra rich during hot track days during the summer I plan to go to, thats be why. i've seen other setups at similar boost levels(Big Bronze Rim) tune to 12:1 and it works for him, so it should work for me. (at least that's the idea)

I appreciate all the comments/suggestions!

[bornagain]

i get that you are using the factory clt and the factory wiring like i am but that weird drop off is what i was looking at some how when you get on it at higher rpm there is less resistance and there for reading higher and when you let off the resistance goes back up and brings your clt back down. I would be weary of that as it can change timing too. you may need to go around and clean all your grounds better.

Looking back at your logs it almost appears that your pulsewidth is affecting your clt readings.

Or maybe its just me but does anyone else see that?

[iXer]

Looking back at your logs it almost appears that your pulsewidth is affecting your clt readings.

Or maybe its just me but does anyone else see that?

+1

I quote myself.

You see how smooth and calm the MAT graph is and how bad the CLT is? I'm not saying that's the reason for your very erratic pulse-width but you should really look over both the grounding of the CLT sensor (and maybe others) and disable all kinds of enrichments/enleanments. It's wrong and you should NOT be wasting dyno time with obvious errors spooking your results.

[e30-m30_kid89]

Looking back at your logs it almost appears that your pulsewidth is affecting your clt readings.

Or maybe its just me but does anyone else see that?

+1

I quote myself.

You see how smooth and calm the MAT graph is and how bad the CLT is? I'm not saying that's the reason for your very erratic pulse-width but you should really look over both the grounding of the CLT sensor (and maybe others) and disable all kinds of enrichments/enleanments. It's wrong and you should NOT be wasting dyno time with obvious errors spooking your results.

Swapped in another sensor, same result. bornagain you're right about that, in TS when i blip the throttle the CLT does "jump" the PW then goes back to normal. I guess messing around with the grounds is next Must be noise from the MS ground messing with the sensors(every thing is grounded at the stock ecu grounding point.

[iXer]

The best situation is where all the sensors in the harness are grounded in the ECU connector. Many brand name professional systems may have a special "sensor ground" pin for this purpose. With MS the top row of the (useless in a car) DSUB connector are all grounds, this is where the ground for all sensors go. You can easily wire them together in the harness, the main thing is that this is where they end up - so that they don't share any ground path with something else.

[e30-m30_kid89]

mine is already wired like that - the main harness grounds that go to motoronic 55-pin connector were spliced to the 2 main MS ground wires.

I may have found my problem though, I peeled back the boot for the CLT connector to see the ground pin just hanging on by a few strands of wire and of course as soon as i laid a finger on it it broke clean inside the connector. Though I didn't really want to i stole the same connector from my 90 325i beater thats sitting.

gonna connect up the laptop and log.

[bornagain]

What i am doing that will hopefully eradicate all my issues is using the full wiring harness from DIY and the sensors will be directly grounded to the proper grounds in the harness. using each lead for each sensor. And see how that goes.

[e30-m30_kid89]

A small update..

I've been having a flywheel issue that came up once again so i finally took my flywheel/PP/clutch to the machine shop to get everything balanced and resurfaced as i was being cheap/lazy and did not do this. Should be getting it back tomorrow and will re-install. The guys told me they had to remove quite a bit of material from the flywheel to get it balanced and told me "you'll see when you pick it up" I blame the flywheel getting messed up from right before i removed my m30 from It's donor car. I let a friend drive and he got the throttle stuck at 4.5k and drove it 5kms in traffic like that. Needless to say the car still smelled like clutch long after the motor was removed when i said goodbye to the shell as the junkers came to get it. Also the stock clutch was blue

I also had to pick up another transmission (G260/6) as my 3rd gear on my original transmission I was using would grind when cold and randomly when warm.

I also wanted to see if I could re-tweak my oil drain as i noticed the car was smoking a bit when cold, but i may put that off for a bit.

Went over my msq a few times and made some small changes that may make take care of some of the issues I was having so the plan is to get the car back together, mayyybe tune AE before I re-dyno or I just may just do a dyno session to see whats going on now and tune AE afterwards since my new fat ugly TPS works very well now.

Kinda getting anxious/excited, haven't driven the car in a week!

[bornagain]

awesome to hear you are making some progress. Some days i feel like im going backwards.

[e30-m30_kid89]

Updatezzz:

I went ahead and installed some Lucas 42.5lb injectors and wow, the car is a lot more smoother and powerful, i'm thinking the low hp numbers might've been from the cheezy 36lb injectors i was previously using because the car is smoother/stronger on and off boost, gets better mileage and even Sounds different! I can finally break 2nd loose on a roll at 7psi, couldn't do that before!

I was kinda excited/disappointed when I put in the 13psi WG spring today to find that it was only a 10psi spring, which is still good and leaves extra room for the 42lbers. still trying to lean out the fuel to a nice 12.0:1 AFR at 10psi but man the car is getting scary fast...It was a bit damp outside after a rain fall and i managed to break loose in 4th at 60mph...whoops!

[e30-m30_kid89]

Call me nuts but I want to go ahead run a bit more boost, 12-14ish psi to be exact. Around those boost levels If i calculated and plotted them correctly on the compressor map I'll be in the 60-1's efficiency "island". The 42lbs injectors will be close to their limit so I plan on installing a adjustable fuel pressure regulator to turn the base press. to 4bar. I know i'm missing out on a few hundred RPM of spool but I like running on the WG springs so i gotta pick up a 0.9bar spring since that's the only one they got in stock. Car is still running great so thats why i want to turn up the fun, at least till I sort out tires and brakes which is all the car should need before I can take it out for some lapping days where the boost will be turned back down to 7.5 - 8psi.

Nothing is better than a boosted m30! Seriously!!

[T_C_D]

[bornagain]

agreed i ran a 14.2 at the track 20c weather at only 6.5 lbs boost. planning to up to 10 -12 psi soon but new clutch is a next for me.

[e30-m30_kid89]

I picked up this mallory #4309 adjustable FPR. It came setup for low pressures (3-12psi) but included springs to run up to 65psi so i set the base fuel pressure to 4bar. I also got a VDO mechanical pressure gauge as well. I did pick up the 13psi green spring for my tial wg but i'm a bit hesitant to install it, its green which i know is the right color but its the same height/diameter as my green 7psi spring, but stiffer. I even went back to the store and the guy assured me it was the right one. Gotta re-do my reqfuel in TS and install spring tommrow!(maybe..)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-4309/

[bornagain]

sweet deal, id like to see the rrfpr install when its done to see how you went about it. And i would like to see some more numbers from you. haha