Coming in....advise on potential set-up? (newer dyno #s!)

[George]

5 lug that mofo.

[Shadow]

It is I think.

[e30-m30_kid89]

Well I've done what i think need to be done over the winter and the result is a nice, quieter car that i've been DDing since the last week of march. I spent a good portion of last week(and a good portion of gas money) on re-tuning the car and it feels great! TS analyzer live really smoothed out my table!

But i'm super nervous as I'm charging up the laptop to strap her down on a dyno later this evening to see if I did good or If I sucks at MS tuning

Hopefully I have good results later tonight worth posting, But I'm going to post the results Anyway.

Hope all is well!

[turbodan]

Dyno runs are always worth posting.

[T_C_D]

Try to get the file on a thumbdrive and email it to me.

Todd

[e30-m30_kid89]

Damn...Im very dissapointed.

The car did not do well at all, past 3.5k the ign pickup couldn't read anything so thats where the chart ended and the operator said it could be something to do with the ignition coils/wires/gap..im running a .024 gap and at 8psi i don't think any blowout could happen, but who knows

I didn't get the file but I have the printouts, best run was a dismal....211rwhp and the TQ numbers were retarded, it read 467rwtq haha.

Kinda glad this happened, I've been lazy about hitting up the dyno but this is motivation to do it, guy said it shouldn't take more than a 2 - 3 hours tops to get it fine tuned once all the kinks are worked out.

heres the logz



I'll scan and upload the sheets later, I promised the GF id take her to the movies

I will get better numbers!

Open to all comments/suggestions!

[Scottinva]

Were you doing pulls that cold? Or is there a problem with your CLT? What kind of coil and plugs are you running? 0.24 should be plenty for that low of a boost, to be spark blowout. Also 96 injector duty is realllyyyyy pushin it. Also your manifold air temp is ridiculous too!

[T_C_D]

211rwhp at 3500 equal abt 300 peak rwhp

[George]

Couple of things here:

Was this a Dyno Jet?

Next time have your dyno operator calculate rpm based on roll speed. If there is no slip, it will work just dandy. Ask him and he will know how to calibrate it.


Your ignition map is kinda of hap hazard. It appears to be jumping all over the place

Your duty cycle is really high but your AFRs are too rich.

[e30-m30_kid89]

thesixerkid: Yes it was on a dynojet, and next time i go there (read: very soon) i'll ask him to do that. On the street the power is there and i don't feel nor see any ign hiccups or anything like that would render a pickup useless.

one of the shop owners also said it looked like it was too rich and seen black smoke during the pulls. I want to work on both the fuel and ign maps on the dyno to get them where they need to be. I'll be getting in too much trouble tweaking the fuel on the street, maybe to fine tune it'll be ok.

Todd: I hope you're right on that because thats what I was aiming for! that almost makes me feel a bit better. Maybe when i see it on paper...


Scottinva: Lol remember i'm a canuck so we use celsius here. the motor was at operating temp. As for the IAT's I'm using a 26x6x3.5 fmic so I think it should be up to the task, might just be heatsoak.

I just remembered that my scanner is broken but im going over to a friends to scan/upload it tommrow.

I also wanna figure out why MS was pulling timing in the upper rpm ranges.

[iXer]

You have a grounding problem with your ECU. All the ground wires from the sensors should go back to the top row of the (useless D-sub) ECU connector. They should NOT be grounded anywhere else, like the engine block, firewall, chassis. It _will_ screw up your readings.

These sensors in particular : IAT/MAT, CLT and TPS.

Your MAP sensor is already ground inside the ECU, as I assume you're running an internal sensor with a hose from the intake up to the ECU.

You could also use a 1 mm MIG welding nozzle in the MAP sensor hose to calm down the pulses a bit, unless you're running a later version of whatever firmwares there are for MS with some configurable filtering on the signal, but a mechanical filter always works a bit better as a basic filter.

And.. this is a bit early, but you should have to cut timing at the highest rpm, on the contrary. If you have 24 degrees @ 3800 rpm now, you should be able to have maybe 26-27 @6000 rpm. Let the dyno prove it to you.

[Scottinva]

Haha I didn't think about celcius, play on! I'm not sure how well you can use IAT's to justify things when your on a dyno. I know on a road what may be too much. However, i'm not sure what kind of fan/fans they used on your car on the dyno. I'm not sure if it'll really tell you anything.

[turbodan]

You seem to be having the same kind of odd PW fluctuations as "bornagain". MAP based accel enrich can do that under boost. It'll run better of you get the PW smoothed out. I run 100% TPS simply because of that.

+1 on the ignition timing as well. At very least you should be running a flat advance from 4k on up. I run minimum advance from 4k-5k, +.5 deg at 5500 and it ramps up from there. Pulling timing out on top could be overheating your exhaust valves and turbine. Can't have that.

[e30-m30_kid89]

I really don't know why MS was pulling timing like that on top, It took forever for the car to reach redline and i was wondering why but that pretty much solves it...still scratching my head wondering why its doing that.

This is the map i used for the dyno:



EDIT:

Took a pic of the dyno sheet as well:

[turbodan]

Any MAT based ignition retard kicking in?

edit: I dont know what to think about that dyno plot. The scale seems to be all wrong. I know you're not spooling at 1750. The dyno operator must have screwed up the configuration. If thats the case, you made ~425rwhp at about 5250 RPM.

[FirstFives Dictator]

Dyno RPM set for V8?

[turbodan]

Dyno RPM set for V8?

That should read 3/4 or actual engine speed if the pickup was on the coil wire, and it shouldn't make a difference at all if its reading an individual plug wire.

The 1/3 reading would be correct for a two stroke.

[e30-m30_kid89]

I went through the log again wondering why MS was pulling timing.

figured it out = I'm a dumbass.

The revlimiter softlimit is set at 6000 and i'm doing fuel/spark cut and hard limit is at 6500. 500rpm is too large im assuming so im going to make the hard soft limits ~100 rpm apart. that coulda been dangerous...

Going to a "reputable shop" with a dyno tonight instead of the 5mins away backalley tuner that just so happens to have a dynojet. Hope i can get real numbers and take it from there.

[FirstFives Dictator]

Damn...Im very dissapointed.

The car did not do well at all, past 3.5k the ign pickup couldn't read anything so thats where the chart ended and the operator said it could be something to do with the ignition coils/wires/gap..im running a .024 gap and at 8psi i don't think any blowout could happen, but who knows

I didn't get the file but I have the printouts, best run was a dismal....211rwhp and the TQ numbers were retarded, it read 467rwtq haha.

Kinda glad this happened, I've been lazy about hitting up the dyno but this is motivation to do it, guy said it shouldn't take more than a 2 - 3 hours tops to get it fine tuned once all the kinks are worked out.

heres the logz



I'll scan and upload the sheets later, I promised the GF id take her to the movies

I will get better numbers!

Open to all comments/suggestions!

Next time have operator use primary coil pack wire and adjust settings for wasted spark. I've had very good luck using primary side (at least on DynoJet)

You could also clamp around +12V line to all coils ; done that too.

[turbodan]

I went through the log again wondering why MS was pulling timing.

figured it out = I'm a dumbass.

The revlimiter softlimit is set at 6000 and i'm doing fuel/spark cut and hard limit is at 6500. 500rpm is too large im assuming so im going to make the hard soft limits ~100 rpm apart. that coulda been dangerous...

Going to a "reputable shop" with a dyno tonight instead of the 5mins away backalley tuner that just so happens to have a dynojet. Hope i can get real numbers and take it from there.

Your best bet is a straight fuel cut. You dont want to cut sparks unless you like blowing a shit load of fuel through the turbo and into the exhaust. That can blow stuff apart. The fuel cut may feel abrupt but its 100% safe for your engine.

[turbodan]

Heres what it would look like with the correct scaling:


Looks like a larger turbine would open it up a bit on top. It seems to come on and shut down a bit too early, regardless of the timing. Thats an issue, but I dont think thats the entire issue. On the other hand, thats a great street powerband.

[iXer]

The fuel cut may feel abrupt but its 100% safe for your engine.

.. and in particular the rockers.

The drop in torque is probably the abysmally low timing.

Does MS lower the timing if you use a 'soft' rev limiter? Sounds strange. Either way, never cut spark on any BMW engine with rockers if you want longevity.

[FirstFives Dictator]

Heres what it would look like with the correct scaling:


Looks like a larger turbine would open it up a bit on top. It seems to come on and shut down a bit too early, regardless of the timing. Thats an issue, but I dont think thats the entire issue. On the other hand, thats a great street powerband.

Was that done on a Sun dyno?

[George]

MS paint master

[T_C_D]

Looks like a larger turbine would open it up a bit on top. It seems to come on and shut down a bit too early, regardless of the timing. Thats an issue, but I dont think thats the entire issue. On the other hand, thats a great street powerband.

It's not the turbo sizing. It's the same turbo I usually use that made 441rwtq on my m30 with a beautifully flat tq curve.

[George]

Looks like a larger turbine would open it up a bit on top. It seems to come on and shut down a bit too early, regardless of the timing. Thats an issue, but I dont think thats the entire issue. On the other hand, thats a great street powerband.

It's not the turbo sizing. It's the same turbo I usually use that made 441rwtq on my m30 with a beautifully flat tq curve.

60-1, .58a/r?

[T_C_D]

60-1, .58a/r?

Yes.

[e30-m30_kid89]

Came back, there is a problem from 5k RPM to redline, sounds like a civic from that point which makes me think im dropping spark. Im using some old wires from a set of 8 i had sitting around and just replaced 2 of the wires i suspected went bad (the reason why i yanked the wires) I operated the dyno after they set it up for me and during the runs it just took forever to pull from 5k to redline. no real changes in the whp but the car netted still a measley 310rwtq SAE corrected which kinda sound more realistic but lets me know i have some work to do Going to overhaul the ignition system once again (wires/coils/plugs) then rent some dyno time to get it sorted out.

The goal was to find out if i was close or off with the tune and well...numbers do not lie...I'm missing a lot of hp It'll be fun finding it though!

here are the logs and graph:







I also think the strange ignition problems are causing me to run lean at that point, The afr looked decent in the second run after tweaking the first.

I will be back soon with better numbers hopefully!

[FirstFives Dictator]

can you post the actual log and dyno files?

[George]

So the results are 310 whp @ 8psi?